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Your Hair Shop runs a bad business

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Cali-Kristin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cali-Kristin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 12:34pm

I NEVER have slammed Shrinkies.net and there's no way I ever could have- I have not tried any of her products. You are obviously trying to start something and it's eally not fair. Tangles and I have talked about Shrinies.net over IM and she can confirm that I've never said anything bad about the company. Many emails come in about how D-LUX compare to Lush and I've always replied that I have not had a chance to try the Lush so I don't know. MANY of you who have PM'ed me can more than verify that.

As for the email she copy and pasted above I wrote her back and apologized for that sounding bad with this last email I wrote her:

I'm sorry that what I said did come out badly as I'm re-reading it and I take full responsibility for that. I intend on giving you back you original order immediately if Paypal decides in my favor. As I will be sending it immediately- I am just sticking to the policy and you have 21 days from placing your order to exchange any items and since no item has been specified you will be shipped back your original order and you won't get the $200 credit for something else. I'm sorry the way it was written poorly in the last email, I have no intention of taking/keeping your money without delivering your product back to you in perfect condition.

We sold about 15 packs of stick hair to people off the boards who and ALL of them made a note of it in their order as I specified for them and you to do. All of those orders were orders for them were shipped out with in 24 hours and done exactly as specified to do. I never said 'just drop me an email' it was ALWAYS 'please write it in the comment section of your order'. Also, under our contact page the very first option is to click there to contact us about 'making a change to your order'. If you would have clicked on that your email would have been given an automatic subject line 'Making a change to an order' we check for these every morning while printing out our packing slips and your email did not come with a subject line saying anything about making a change to your order so it was EASILY overlooked and not read until that evening. Please go back and check your email to us where you wanted to change your order- your subject said nothing about being changed and it was therefore accidentally overlooked. We get about 20-30 emails a day If I'm sure many businesses do. Subject lines are there to describe what your email is about and if something was said to the effect of making a change to your order it would have been opened and processed immediately.

We strive to keep our customers happy by bluntly listing our policies and having a lightening fast turn around time on orders. This is all done to keep you the buyer happy. To do this all of our orders must be packaged and shipped by 11am before my clients arrive for their appointments so we scan the emails for any important ones ('making a change to an order' 'please cancel my order' or something to that effect), process and ship out the orders, and then I get on with my clients. After we got the orders shipped I work on clients for another 7-8 hours, then come back answer our many daily emails, give free advice to those on the boards as a favor to anyone interested in extensions, then I have about 30 minutes of downtime before I go to bed to start the whole day over. It's freaking exhausting and a large percentage of it I do for free to those who have never or will never be a customer of mine. We are very busy around here and we do our best to offer free help, demos, and some of the lowest priced extension products on the entire web. All that we ask is that when people order from us that they read the policy and agree to it as they order- it's there to resolve conflicts as this.

We were never tardy with our emails and you must admit your making a change to your order could have been done a little more effectively by at least filling in the subject line with the subject of your email. We are still willing to allow you to pick out something else from the shop up to your $200 and even ship it to you for free. Heck you could even sell whatever you got on Ebay- I don’t care. The bottom line is that we shipped you what you ordered, were never tardy on emails (responding in less than 24 hours is extremely quick for any business), and have tried hard to resolve this with you. If you do not wish to resolve this please continue with your Paypal case and they can resolve it for us.

Sincerely,

YourHairShop.com

.

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Cali-Kristin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cali-Kristin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 12:36pm
All that was meant by that is that she is not telling me what she wants so I have no choice but to send her back her original order which would not give her a chance to use her $200 credit for something else. I don't want to keep her products so what am I supposed to do if she does not tell me what she wants???? I have no choice but to send back her original order.
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sarytyr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarytyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 1:28pm

Kristin,

Glad to hear your side of things and that the statement about keeping the $200 was corrected and apologized for.

As Dr. Phil says "No matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has 2 sides!"

 

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tjoh99 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tjoh99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:00pm

Ok first off, I take responsibility for not commenting in the actual papal order. As soon as it went through I thought "uh oh" so I sent an email immediately after. Whether or not I put the correct subject line in the email, I did communicate what I wanted to you. It's not my fault you don't read your emails in a timely basis and overwork yourself to exhaustion. Regardless, I received the wrong product. If you want to place blame on my for not communicating with you in the most convenient way for Kristen, fine.

I sent it back because it was the wrong hair, not the wrong color. When I saw the hair all together I thought it was slightly more brown than I had hoped and since I had to send it back anyway, asked if there was a redder option. I want to be clear that I was not "exchanging" anything. If it had been the right hair in the first place, I would have just thrown a red glosser on it and installed in time for my event.

As for your "policy" there is nothing during the buying process that required me to initial or click "I agree to these terms" which legally in the courtroom isn't going to stand, but that's besides the point.

You are wrong. Bottom line is that you shipped me the WRONG product and feel unaccountable because I didn't communicate my request in the most convenient way for you.

You shipped me the wrong product, I sent it back at my own charge like an idiot.

You provided papal with FALSE information/proof that merchandise was delivered to me which we both know is a lie because I sent it back to you.

I am an educated, professional woman with impeccable ethics in business. Sometimes in business, there are times when we have to make exceptions when there is a miscommunication that is partly our own fault. You have your merchandise, unopened and brand new. There is no reason as to why you wouldn't refund me my money with the exception alone that you just wanted to corner a customer that’s already paid you money.

I said it before, and I'll say it again I want you to keep that money and don't even think about sending my the wrong product or any product for that matter.

The only thing I want back is my money and I'm going to give you until Monday to do so and let us part ways amicably.

If I do not have my money refunded to me, the sheriff will be serving you with papers for a small claims lawsuit and on the advice of my father who happens to be an attorney. I am suing you for the following:

-The original cost of my purchase $200

-The cost of the courier in an attempt to collect merchandise in a timely manner $75

-The different in hair I had to buy locally as a result of negligence $150

-The cost of the shipping I spent sending the wrong product back to you $4.25

-The original shipping fees I paid for $9.99

-It's a long shot but I'm going to tack on mental anguish as well in the amount advised to me by my father

And don't you for one second think that people aren't smart enough to realize the only reason you're willing to send me anything now is because I aired a very nasty side of you. I appreciate your attempt to redeem yourself though.

And if you deliver product to me, I'm going to bring it back to you in person and continue to do so until we go to court.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhairdreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:14pm

This is plain rediculous.I have ordered different things from kristin and have always had exceptional service and speed.Plus for everyone disappointed with the glue-free shrinkies.Join the club.Noone has had good luck with them.They just dont work without glue.I dont care if there from kristins site or even amms site.THEY DONT WORK.If you do a search on them people have been trying them forever with no luck.

And Kristin has been on this board a long time.And never before has anyone had any complaints about her business ethics until now.I think it can be chalked up to a misunderstanding.I'm sorry that you are out so much money tjoh,but she is still offering to send your hair even after being slandered on the board.Maybe take her up on it.Just my two cents.

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sarytyr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarytyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:32pm

I agree the personal attacks are getting out of hand.  I know though, that things can get intense when there is cash involved.

Unfortunately for Kristin, I just looked at her website and I couldn't find anywhere that states a policy of no refunds on any products. It only explains the policies concerning payment, shipping and exchanges. 

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lilmountaingrrl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilmountaingrrl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by tjoh99 tjoh99 wrote:

As for your "policy" there is nothing during the buying process that required me to initial or click "I agree to these terms" which legally in the courtroom isn't going to stand, but that's besides the point......

If I do not have my money refunded to me, the sheriff will be serving you with papers for a small claims lawsuit and on the advice of my father who happens to be an attorney. I am suing you for the following:

-The original cost of my purchase $200

-The cost of the courier in an attempt to collect merchandise in a timely manner $75

-The different in hair I had to buy locally as a result of negligence $150

-The cost of the shipping I spent sending the wrong product back to you $4.25

-The original shipping fees I paid for $9.99

-It's a long shot but I'm going to tack on mental anguish as well in the amount advised to me by my father

And if you deliver product to me, I'm going to bring it back to you in person and continue to do so until we go to court.

First of all, I know for a fact that a website's policies & terms do stand on their own. You dont have to click anything or sign anything when placing an order to show that you accept their terms.....  when you place an order through them, and send money- that is showing that you either accepted their terms, or just plain did'nt read them.

There is one thing I tell everyone that orders online....  it's easy to take a screen-shot of the website's terms & policies page. Not only will all their policies & info be there as evidence, but just as importantly a date and time will be provided too. This covers not only the web owner's backside, but often also the consumer's as well. 

My husband breeds exotic reptiles and sells the captive-bred babies, and often he's had to place orders for breeding stock online.  He always takes a screen-shot of the website's policies to make sure they cant alter their terms or conditions after a transaction, in case things go sour. Twice he's had animals shipped dead-on-arrival, and luckily he had screen-shots of the terms & policies to back his cause.

I know the reptile business is completely different from buying hair extension hair online....  one thing I do know from doing my own hair extensions and having to buy supplies online-  no businesses I've ever dealt with accept returns on hair. I believe it's a health related policy. I'm sure someone can elaborate further on this. I've boughten hair from Sally's Beauty Supply, as well, and they always tell me when making my purchase that they dont accept returns.



Edited by lilmountaingrrl
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lilmountaingrrl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilmountaingrrl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:47pm

Here's the terms I found on the site: 

Return Policy-

-All unused/unopened items may be exchanged with the exception of clip-in hair pieces for health reasons.

 

-All exchanged items  must be sent back with a postmark dated no later than 21 days after the date your items were purchased online. No exceptions.

 

-Please send all exchanged items with delivery confirmation. We are not responsible for any Packages that are not received.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinkparadise42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 2:57pm

Lilmountaingirl, you bring up some good points, but even in the return policy you copy and pasted there is still nothing that says, NO returns!  That is the whole thing that Trina is getting at.

She isn't saying she wants to exchange it, which is all you posted about.  She is saying she wants a refund of her money and there isn't anything in there saying you can't return the hair.

I have seen places on Ebay where people are selling hair and they say in their auction or store, "Due to the nature of this product, we cannot except returns."  Just because this is something that is probably a well known policy doesn't mean it should not be CLEARLY stated in the website.

If there is nothing on Your Hair Shops website stating that then Trina has every right to be saying what she is saying.  If it hasn't been pointed out on the website then how would she know she couldn't get a refund.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarytyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:00pm

Yep, live and learn on both sides.  The words "no refund" cannot be found.  It is not reasonable to expect the consumer to make the assumptions based on similar businesses or that there are no refunds simply because the policy does not cover the subject.  The policy needs to be clear and stated somewhere on the website even if it a link or button to the doc*ment. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarytyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:09pm

Pinkparadise42, I guess we were on the same wavelength.  I was replying the same time as you!

At this point $200 is a small amount for Kristin to pay to resolve this matter and to update the website.  It is my opinion that is all she owes Trina.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinkparadise42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:12pm

Sarytyr I couldn't have said it better myself!

:)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilmountaingrrl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:24pm

I know I couldnt find the words "no returns" on the yourhairshop website, but I thought I'd post what I found anyways.... it goes to show what is AND what isn't stated on the site.

What I'm wondering is this:  was the packages of hair opened? If they were once the buyer recieved them, then yourhairshop's terms might apply. This is what Kristen says on her site:  "-All unused/unopened items may be exchanged with the exception of clip-in hair pieces for health reasons"



Edited by lilmountaingrrl
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Cali-Kristin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cali-Kristin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:42pm

You do bring up a great point and although Tjoh99 never mentioned that my policy was unclear or anything to that effect I would have refunded her immediately if she would have brough that to my attention. You're right that my site does say you may exchange any unused/unopened products but it does not clearly say 'no refunds' which I will add. Although I believe that Tjou99 understood exactly what was meant by the policy due to the fact that it was not the basis of her claim it is enough for me to now be inclined to refund her on that basis.

Let it be known that I will update my policy with a blunt 'no refunds- exchange only' information and please know that I will ALWAYS stand by my policy no matter what.

Tjoh99 you will recieve your $200 back shortly- you should give a huge thanks to lilmountaingirl who brought up some good information on that my policy could have been written clearer. I thank you too lilmountaingirl as I probably wouldn't have noticed either.

~Kristin

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote monsterita Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:45pm

I think this is a bad situation that arose just out of miscommunication.  It's too bad.  I can see both sides.

I don't think Paypal consistently places that comment box on it's order checkout form.  Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not.  It might be a browser issue.  I don't know.

As a mediator and lawyer, I think that probably Kristen's site is clear enough regarding their return policy.  I also don't think a court would award the cost of the replacement hair (tjoh99 needed hair, got hair, and actually spent less elsewhere) or the courier (that was an expense that tjoh99 chose to incur and would have incurred even if the exchange had been successfully completed at that point).  I think the shipping charges are also a stretch.  Given Kristen's policy as it is stated, the court would probably side with Kristen.  For emotional distress to fly, there would have to be proven intent to cause distress that resulted in a real injury along the lines of creating a need for mental health counseling.

I would recommend that Kristen clarify her policy regarding whether or not she will refund shipping charges and whether she will reimburse shipping for returned items.  Most mail-order companies do that.

Finally, the mediator in me would suggest that Kristen, just this once, offer to refund the $200 for hair and the $9.99 for shipping.  Kristen will be out $9.99 but will have the hair.

For tjoh99, I would recommend that you incur the $150 hair cost and the $75 courier cost as well as the $4.25 return shipping cost.  Tjoh99 will actually then only be out $29.25 total.   

I know this situation sucks for both of you and that you're both angry and frustrated, but I hope that you will both take a step to resolve this amicably. 

I would hate to see ongoing feuds ruin the supportive atmosphere of this board.

 

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Cali-Kristin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cali-Kristin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:46pm
 
Transaction Details

< id=myAllTextSubmitID = name="">

Refund (ID #9XM72420LB411133E)
In reference to:71589191LU242570D


Original Transaction
 Date  Type  Status  Details  Gross  Fee  Net
 Jan. 18, 2006  Payment From Trina O'Rourke  Partially Refunded  Details $237.30 USD  -$7.18 USD  $230.12 USD 

Related Transactions
 Date  Type  Status  Details  Gross  Fee  Net
 Feb. 1, 2006  Temporary Hold For Buyer Dispute  Removed  Details -$231.33 USD  $1.21 USD  -$230.12 USD 
 Feb. 3, 2006  Update From Reversal  Cancelled  Details $230.12 USD  $0.00 USD  $230.12 USD 
 Feb. 3, 2006  Refund To Trina O'Rourke  Completed  ... -$205.95 USD  $5.97 USD  -$199.98 USD 


Name:
Trina O'Rourke    
Email:
tjoh_99@yahoo.com


Total Amount:
-$205.95 USD
Fee Amount:
$5.97 USD
Net Amount:
-$199.98 USD


Date:
Feb. 3, 2006
Time:
13:46:05 PST
Status:
Completed 
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Cali-Kristin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cali-Kristin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:55pm
Thanks monsterita, you have some wonderful advice. I watch court TV all the time and I'm sure my policy was clear enough to have upheld in court but it could have been even clearer as mentioned above by lilmountaingilr so I used that as the basis to refund her for the hair. The rest of her claims are ridiculous so she won't get anymore than the cost of the hair. She had other items that she kept which is why she did not recieve a full refund incase anyone is wondering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarytyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 3:59pm
Kristin, that's great and good for you to re-state that you stand behind your policies.  Customers must also educate themselves and ask questions if they are unclear of site policies.  I am glad that you will update your site to protect yourself.  Please be sure to seek legal advice on your final policies.  We want you to stay in business!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lilmountaingrrl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by CaliforniaKristin CaliforniaKristin wrote:

You do bring up a great point and although Tjoh99 never mentioned that my policy was unclear or anything to that effect I would have refunded her immediately if she would have brough that to my attention. You're right that my site does say you may exchange any unused/unopened products but it does not clearly say 'no refunds' which I will add. Although I believe that Tjou99 understood exactly what was meant by the policy due to the fact that it was not the basis of her claim it is enough for me to now be inclined to refund her on that basis.

Let it be known that I will update my policy with a blunt 'no refunds- exchange only' information and please know that I will ALWAYS stand by my policy no matter what.

Tjoh99 you will recieve your $200 back shortly- you should give a huge thanks to lilmountaingirl who brought up some good information on that my policy could have been written clearer. I thank you too lilmountaingirl as I probably wouldn't have noticed either.

~Kristin

Kristen,

I posted what the terms on your website said, because it didnt say anything about returns, much less anything about returns even being allowed. You did mention exchanges on unopened/unused packages, though.... which led me to feel that if I was the one doing the ordering from your site I would have assumed returns were'nt offered, but in some instances exchanges would be honored- if the criteria you mentioned were met.  I hope this makes sense.... 

From all my experience buying hair extension supplies, I have never bought any hair that was returnable, or even exchangable. Maybe that's why I automatically thought from reading your site's terms that returns were out of the question.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sarytyr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2006 at 4:12pm
Monsterita, you are an outstanding mediator!
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