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Leslie View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:51pm
Hi everyone. I still marvel at the fact that a makeover on tv, usually one like Sally, or Jenny Jones always seems to include hacking off about six inches of hair. You see a woman with beautiful hair and after her makeover its all gone. I think this sends a very negative message that long hair is "outdated" or that it just must be cut off in order to make the woman look better. Oh well maybe one day they'll do a show about women with long hair and show how wonderful it is. Now don't get the wrong impression I am not knocking short hair at all. I'm just talking about long hair because I happen to have it.
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Dawn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:51pm
> Hi everyone. I still marvel at the fact that a> makeover on tv, usually one like Sally, or Jenny Jones> always seems to include hacking off about six inches> of hair. You see a woman with beautiful hair and after> her makeover its all gone.I think that it has to do w/the fact that, like it or not, cutting off long hair is dramatic. I don't know if it has so much to do w/ the fact that long hair is perceived as ugly, or anything like that. In fact, if you've ever looked at mainstream magazines for straight men (for example Playboy) you'll notice a very high percentage of models with mid-back or longer hair. TV strives to shock, not necessarily to present beauty. Why else would there be shows like Jerry Springer, for example? I also believe that most stylists do get at least somewhat of a thrill from cutting off long hair (see Tiara's post a few articles down), and these stylists are the ones put in charge running these shows.I hate when this happens, too, especially when the woman has thick, healthy hair and you can tell that she's not really sold on cutting it. Turns my stomach a bit, personally..... Oh, by the way, I have an friend who is an exotic dancer, and at the place where she works, they won't even hire girls w/ hair above the shoulders. Perhaps we should take the opinions of men in the mainstream more seriously than the opinions of a few gay hairdressers w/ haircutting fetishes. (Please don't flame me--I'm not saying ALL hairdressers are gay or that ALL of them have haircutting fetishes.)Dawn(Trying to grow out her hair!)
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Diane from Canada View Drop Down
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> I think that it has to do w/the fact that, like it or> not, cutting off long hair is dramatic. I don't know> if it has so much to do w/ the fact that long hair is> perceived as ugly, or anything like that. In fact, if> you've ever looked at mainstream magazines for> straight men (for example Playboy) you'll notice a> very high percentage of models with mid-back or longer> hair. TV strives to shock, not necessarily to present> beauty. Why else would there be shows like Jerry> Springer, for example? I also believe that most> stylists do get at least somewhat of a thrill from> cutting off long hair (see Tiara's post a few articles> down), and these stylists are the ones put in charge> running these shows.> I hate when this happens, too, especially when the> woman has thick, healthy hair and you can tell that> she's not really sold on cutting it. Turns my stomach> a bit, personally..... Oh, by the way, I have an> friend who is an exotic dancer, and at the place where> she works, they won't even hire girls w/ hair above> the shoulders. Perhaps we should take the opinions of> men in the mainstream more seriously than the opinions> of a few gay hairdressers w/ haircutting fetishes.> (Please don't flame me--I'm not saying ALL> hairdressers are gay or that ALL of them have> haircutting fetishes.)> Dawn> (Trying to grow out her hair!)Dawn has a very good point about the dramatic part. Have you notice if someone does have short hair they color it on the show. They always have to do something like if the natural hair color wasn't good enough. I can understand hairstyles but they seem to go to the extreme at times and I am not so sure it is for the best.Diane
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Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:52pm
> Hi everyone. I still marvel at the fact that a makeover on tv, usually> one like Sally, or Jenny Jones always seems to include hacking off about> six inches of hair. You see a woman with beautiful hair and after her> makeover its all gone. I think this sends a very negative message that> long hair is "outdated" or that it just must be cut off in order to make> the woman look better.Leslie,The stylists "prop up" the desirability of the short haircuts by sellingthem with all sorts of wonderful sounding words like "modern" and "stylish"and "up to date," etc, and at the same time they use all sorts of horriblewords such as "outdated" and "unprofessional," etc to put down long hair.It's their WORDS that send the very negative message about long hair.> Oh well maybe one day they'll do a show about women with long hair and> show how wonderful it is.Yes indeed. Wouldn't that be refreshing? But I'm not holding my breath.> Now don't get the wrong impression I am not knocking short hair at all.> I'm just talking about long hair because I happen to have it.I agree. It's not about short hair. It's frustration about an EXTREMELYbiased sales pitch AGAINST long hair.====> I think that it has to do w/the fact that, like it or not, cutting off> long hair is dramatic.Dawn,Yep. And drama draws attention. And attention draws advertising revenue.> I don't know if it has so much to do w/ the fact that long hair is> perceived as ugly, or anything like that.Long hair is pitched in a negative light by so many stylists that quitea number of people have come to believe that it is some sort of truthcarved in stone.> In fact, if you've ever looked at mainstream magazines for straight men> (for example Playboy) you'll notice a very high percentage of models> with mid-back or longer hair. TV strives to shock, not necessarily to> present beauty. Why else would there be shows like Jerry Springer, for> example?Bingo. The entire production is driven by the generation of advertisingrevenue. They are under the impression, accurately or not, that shockwill draw better than a balanced presentation of any issue, be it beautyor whatever. Be aware that the presentation is designed to enrich theproducers, more so than the viewers.> I also believe that most stylists do get at least somewhat of a thrill> from cutting off long hair (see Tiara's post a few articles down),> and these stylists are the ones put in charge running these shows.Isn't it a sad state of affairs when people's wishes are subjugated justfor some cheap thrills?There is a fair percentage of stylists who choose the profession for avery simple reason -- because they enjoy the process of cutting hair.The question is, whose wishes ought to be fulfilled? Answer: the onewho is paying -- the customer! To be ripped off of one's hair and thenof one's money on top of it is doubly insulting.> I hate when this happens, too, especially when the woman has thick,> healthy hair and you can tell that she's not really sold on cutting it.> Turns my stomach a bit, personally.....Me too. For many reasons. Coercion is ugly.> Oh, by the way, I have an friend who is an exotic dancer, and at the> place where she works, they won't even hire girls w/ hair above the> shoulders. Perhaps we should take the opinions of men in the mainstream> more seriously than the opinions of a few gay hairdressers w/ haircutting> fetishes. (Please don't flame me--I'm not saying ALL hairdressers are gay> or that ALL of them have haircutting fetishes.)To the extent that a given woman may want to choose a hairstyle and lengthbased on straight men's preferences is certainly an issue to consider.I should think that if appealing to men is a consideration, that a womanwould seriously ask which "type" of man she would rather please.This is a question I had posed to the trusted stylist I was seeing about3 years ago (I was calmly and politely ranting). She became very quiet.I don't know why.Now that I think of it, of the male stylists that used to cut/trim my hair,the ones who were straight ALWAYS gave me exactly what I wanted and askedfor. The one who was not did not, one time outright ignoring my requestfor a 1/2 inch trim and cutting 3 inches (of healthy hair). Needless tosay it was the last time he ever cut my hair. My experiences are notnecessarily conclusive evidence of anything, they were just that -- myexperiences.====> Dawn has a very good point about the dramatic part. Have you notice if> someone does have short hair they color it on the show. They always have> to do something like if the natural hair color wasn't good enough.Diane,Exactly. Telling women that their natural haircolor isn't good enoughis a message designed to make you feel badly about yourself -- and putyourself into their "trusted" hands to "rectify" the situation.I mean no disrespect to those who perform these services only at thespecific request of their clients. But, let's face it -- the haircoloring business would not be what it is today if the desirabilityof hair coloring were not so effectively sold.For example, in the coupon section of Sunday's newspaper is an ad forRevlon. Here is what it says (capitalizations/punctuations intact),in its entirety, and I quote:"Super Charge Your Color! New Super LUSTROUS Haircolor- Super translucent colorants give hair multi-faceted color- Super conditioning shine energizers light up hair- 22 Sparkling Colors"How subtle is this NOT?> I can understand hairstyles but they seem to go to the extreme at times> and I am not so sure it is for the best.No, it's not necessarily for the best, IMHO. It's done to be as dramaticof a change as is possible. Dramatic change/shock is deemed of utmostimportance. Beauty is a secondary consideration -- at best. How manypeople do you think would watch a show where, for instance, they onlydemonstrated different techniques to apply makeup -- and left everythingelse unchanged? Sounds like one of those 4:00 a.m. advertorials (where,of course, everything else about their appearance is already "done up").And you know how low those ratings are -- close to nil.Dave
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Leslie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leslie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:52pm
> Leslie,> The stylists "prop up" the desirability of> the short haircuts by selling> them with all sorts of wonderful sounding words like> "modern" and "stylish"> and "up to date," etc, and at the same time> they use all sorts of horrible> words such as "outdated" and> "unprofessional," etc to put down long hair.> It's their WORDS that send the very negative message> about long hair.> Yes indeed. Wouldn't that be refreshing? But I'm not> holding my breath.> I agree. It's not about short hair. It's frustration> about an EXTREMELY> biased sales pitch AGAINST long hair.> ====> Dawn,> Yep. And drama draws attention. And attention draws> advertising revenue.> Long hair is pitched in a negative light by so many> stylists that quite> a number of people have come to believe that it is> some sort of truth> carved in stone.> Bingo. The entire production is driven by the> generation of advertising> revenue. They are under the impression, accurately or> not, that shock> will draw better than a balanced presentation of any> issue, be it beauty> or whatever. Be aware that the presentation is> designed to enrich the> producers, more so than the viewers.> Isn't it a sad state of affairs when people's wishes> are subjugated just> for some cheap thrills?> There is a fair percentage of stylists who choose the> profession for a> very simple reason -- because they enjoy the process> of cutting hair.> The question is, whose wishes ought to be fulfilled?> Answer: the one> who is paying -- the customer! To be ripped off of> one's hair and then> of one's money on top of it is doubly insulting.> Me too. For many reasons. Coercion is ugly.> To the extent that a given woman may want to choose a> hairstyle and length> based on straight men's preferences is certainly an> issue to consider.> I should think that if appealing to men is a> consideration, that a woman> would seriously ask which "type" of man she> would rather please.> This is a question I had posed to the trusted stylist> I was seeing about> 3 years ago (I was calmly and politely ranting). She> became very quiet.> I don't know why.> Now that I think of it, of the male stylists that used> to cut/trim my hair,> the ones who were straight ALWAYS gave me exactly what> I wanted and asked> for. The one who was not did not, one time outright> ignoring my request> for a 1/2 inch trim and cutting 3 inches (of healthy> hair). Needless to> say it was the last time he ever cut my hair. My> experiences are not> necessarily conclusive evidence of anything, they were> just that -- my> experiences.> ====> Diane,> Exactly. Telling women that their natural haircolor> isn't good enough> is a message designed to make you feel badly about> yourself -- and put> yourself into their "trusted" hands to> "rectify" the situation.> I mean no disrespect to those who perform these> services only at the> specific request of their clients. But, let's face it> -- the hair> coloring business would not be what it is today if the> desirability> of hair coloring were not so effectively sold.> For example, in the coupon section of Sunday's> newspaper is an ad for> Revlon. Here is what it says> (capitalizations/punctuations intact),> in its entirety, and I quote:> "Super Charge Your Color! New Super LUSTROUS> Haircolor> - Super translucent colorants give hair multi-faceted> color> - Super conditioning shine energizers light up hair> - 22 Sparkling Colors"> How subtle is this NOT?> No, it's not necessarily for the best, IMHO. It's done> to be as dramatic> of a change as is possible. Dramatic change/shock is> deemed of utmost> importance. Beauty is a secondary consideration -- at> best. How many> people do you think would watch a show where, for> instance, they only> demonstrated different techniques to apply makeup --> and left everything> else unchanged? Sounds like one of those 4:00 a.m.> advertorials (where,> of course, everything else about their appearance is> already "done up").> And you know how low those ratings are -- close to> nil.> DaveVery well put and I agree with all of you!!!
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Leslie View Drop Down
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> Very well put and I agree with all of you!!!
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Diane from Canada View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diane from Canada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:52pm
> Leslie,> The stylists "prop up" the desirability of> the short haircuts by selling> them with all sorts of wonderful sounding words like> "modern" and "stylish"> and "up to date," etc, and at the same time> they use all sorts of horrible> words such as "outdated" and> "unprofessional," etc to put down long hair.> It's their WORDS that send the very negative message> about long hair.> Yes indeed. Wouldn't that be refreshing? But I'm not> holding my breath.> I agree. It's not about short hair. It's frustration> about an EXTREMELY> biased sales pitch AGAINST long hair.> ====> Dawn,> Yep. And drama draws attention. And attention draws> advertising revenue.> Long hair is pitched in a negative light by so many> stylists that quite> a number of people have come to believe that it is> some sort of truth> carved in stone.> Bingo. The entire production is driven by the> generation of advertising> revenue. They are under the impression, accurately or> not, that shock> will draw better than a balanced presentation of any> issue, be it beauty> or whatever. Be aware that the presentation is> designed to enrich the> producers, more so than the viewers.> Isn't it a sad state of affairs when people's wishes> are subjugated just> for some cheap thrills?> There is a fair percentage of stylists who choose the> profession for a> very simple reason -- because they enjoy the process> of cutting hair.> The question is, whose wishes ought to be fulfilled?> Answer: the one> who is paying -- the customer! To be ripped off of> one's hair and then> of one's money on top of it is doubly insulting.> Me too. For many reasons. Coercion is ugly.> To the extent that a given woman may want to choose a> hairstyle and length> based on straight men's preferences is certainly an> issue to consider.> I should think that if appealing to men is a> consideration, that a woman> would seriously ask which "type" of man she> would rather please.> This is a question I had posed to the trusted stylist> I was seeing about> 3 years ago (I was calmly and politely ranting). She> became very quiet.> I don't know why.> Now that I think of it, of the male stylists that used> to cut/trim my hair,> the ones who were straight ALWAYS gave me exactly what> I wanted and asked> for. The one who was not did not, one time outright> ignoring my request> for a 1/2 inch trim and cutting 3 inches (of healthy> hair). Needless to> say it was the last time he ever cut my hair. My> experiences are not> necessarily conclusive evidence of anything, they were> just that -- my> experiences.> ====> Diane,> Exactly. Telling women that their natural haircolor> isn't good enough> is a message designed to make you feel badly about> yourself -- and put> yourself into their "trusted" hands to> "rectify" the situation.> I mean no disrespect to those who perform these> services only at the> specific request of their clients. But, let's face it> -- the hair> coloring business would not be what it is today if the> desirability> of hair coloring were not so effectively sold.> For example, in the coupon section of Sunday's> newspaper is an ad for> Revlon. Here is what it says> (capitalizations/punctuations intact),> in its entirety, and I quote:> "Super Charge Your Color! New Super LUSTROUS> Haircolor> - Super translucent colorants give hair multi-faceted> color> - Super conditioning shine energizers light up hair> - 22 Sparkling Colors"> How subtle is this NOT?> No, it's not necessarily for the best, IMHO. It's done> to be as dramatic> of a change as is possible. Dramatic change/shock is> deemed of utmost> importance. Beauty is a secondary consideration -- at> best. How many> people do you think would watch a show where, for> instance, they only> demonstrated different techniques to apply makeup --> and left everything> else unchanged? Sounds like one of those 4:00 a.m.> advertorials (where,> of course, everything else about their appearance is> already "done up").> And you know how low those ratings are -- close to> nil.> DaveHello Dave:How many words per minute do you type because boy oh boy can you ever write lots . lolI can only imagine how that hair color special would really look like.It does seem that hair coloring is no longer the same. Today I see that stylist are walking around with the tips color and the roots a diffirent color.Diane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lurker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:52pm
> TV strives to shock, not necessarily to present> beauty. Why else would there be shows like Jerry> Springer, for example?Or even Jenny Jones :-)> I also believe that most stylists do get at least somewhat> of a thrill from cutting off long hairNo doubt. If you drive race cars for a living, you want to be the fastest. If you build bridges, you want to build the biggest. If you cut hair.....you want to cut a LOT!> Oh, by the way, I have an> friend who is an exotic dancer, and at the place where> she works, they won't even hire girls w/ hair above> the shoulders.Given the sleazy nature of most of those places, I doubt that many see this as a net positive aspect of long hair!> Perhaps we should take the opinions of men in the> mainstreamYou mean the beer-belching bozos that frequent "exotic dance" places because no decent woman will even look at them? Those are your example of "mainstream men"???> of a few gay hairdressers w/ haircutting fetishes.Hey, be careful or the local "thought police" may rip your post!!! Jeff....where are you ;-)
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Ally View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:52pm
Well, my favorite hairdresser has told me quite frankly that she finds trimming long hair boring. She doesn't try to talk clients into anything they don't want, but she understandably gets more excited when someone walks in and requests a dramatic change. I think this is why makeover programs involve heavy-handed cuts: They wnt a DRAMATIC change. (So why not put extensions on short-haired women?)Part of the reason it's taking me so damned long to grow my own hair out is that I listen to other people. Every few months someone--usually a female friend or hairdresser--convinces me that shorter hair is more flattering. I always regret it and start the growing-out process again. (The upside is that I now have very healthy hair again, so maybe these cuts were fortuitous.)When someone urges me to cut my hair, I'm never sure if she's one of those anti-long-hair people, or if I really look prettier with shorter hair. (Contrary to the consensus around here, I do think long hair is a mistake on some people. I wish I could put my finger on what physical traits look good with long hair, but I can't.)My hair is a couple of inches past my shoulders now, and this time I'm going to make it! ;)Ally
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