Hi JerkyFlea,> Really? Whe I spoke of the forum, I was referring to> the entire series of boards. The pro-long hair angle I> spoke of is from the posts that usually follow any> poster (usually female) who places a message that they> have long hair, but are thinking of cutting it for one> reason or another. The majority of the posts following> will indicate she should think long and hard about> this decision because she'll probably regret cutting> it if she decides to do it.> In fact there is a thread on Hair Talk like this right> now right here . Several folks told the mom to> carefully weigh the decision, because she may regret> it, as they did, when she cuts it. Her response, I> think, demonstrates that even a newbie recognizes the> slant of the boards:> "To be really honest, I've read some of the> posts on here and I know some of you think a haircut> is a big deal, but it wasn't that big of a deal to> me."I read the subject thread from "Alice" and she said "I've always liked my hairlong, but I'm just getting this desire to cut it short so I don't have to dealwith it." In her message I read two things: (1) that she likes long hair,(2) she's thinking of cutting it short SO THAT it requires less effort. Thehelpful respondents seemed (to me) to be trying to let Alice know that cuttingher hair short was not necessary to adequately address her hair concerns (whatwith being a new mother). I think the response of the other mothers indicatesthat the notion that "a new mother ought to cut her hair short" (otherwise knownas "getting the 'mommy cut'") is based more on oxymoronic "conventional wisdom"than in the reality of the actual suitability of a given hair length.And I'm not sure in what sense you perceive a "pro-long hair angle," becausewhen Alice continued her story and confessed that she succumbed to the persuasionof her friends, not one person posted a response of any kind. How do you infera "pro-long hair angle" in the vacuum of zero responses?> "I love my hair long and don't plan to cut. Ever.> Future events are irrelevant. I would sooner abandon> my family and religious faith before letting scissors> near my hair. Those that think that they may possibly> cut their hair based on changing circumstances are> irresponsible and immature, with no firm system of> beliefs or convictions."> Who would say such a thing? Well, Dawn, that would be> you in multiple posts. And just in case you accuse me> of paraphrasingThis is puzzling because you just DID paraphrase Dawn -- andterribly inaccurately, at that.> Not doubting your convictions, but just because Jena> thinks change is OK and has decided to not let her> hair become the defining characteristic of her> personality and life does not make her "wishy> washy".Jena described an episode in which she cut her long hair short, whichseemed to me to have been the complete antithesis of a display ofstablility (feel free to consult with Webster for the definition of"stable"). And in part, we are what we do.> If someone says they don't> like your hair and you should cut it, to be fair, you> have to respect their opinion just as much as those> who love your hair as it is.The respect I give an opinion expressed to me depends on several factors,including but not limited to (a) did I specifically solicit an opinionfrom the other person? (b) on what basis do I know this person? (c) towhat extent do I value this person's opinion?If a person were to so crudely come up to me and say "you should cutyour hair" (and some people have!) then on what basis do they presumeto know that my present choice is inferior to another? Determinationof superiority/inferiority in this matter is purely subjective -- yetthose who dissent with my choice FOR MY OWN HAIR demonstrate theirarrogance.> I know exactly what you are talking about. You just> need to admit that this isn't about hair. It's about> freedom of choice. You're free to leave you hair long.> Jena's free to cut hers. And, for better or worse,> people are free to give their opinion on both. If that> isn't what this board is aboutI sense that you still don't understand the reason behind the uproarin recent weeks. Lurker/Zorak is more than welcome to express hisopinion that "change is good" and/or whatever. The objection was firstwith his attitude that "people who don't change are boring" (an issuenot at all dealing with hair), but, more significantly, with hispresumption that "people *should* change." Neither of these issueshave anything to do with hair but have everything to do with his ratherjudgmental, and then arrogant, attitude.and it was intended as> a long hair support group, then I probably shouldn't> have wandered by in the first place.Perhaps it seems this way to you because you never before had so muchawareness or appreciation for the hassles (from other people) that thosewho choose long hair are forced to endure?But whatever it is that draws you, you do return for additional peeks :-)Dawn said: "Well, I don't know if you've ever actually had longhair, and if not, I'm not entirely convinced that you can trulyunderstand, but lets just move on."Your reply:> Nope, don't have long hair. Don't know anyone> personally with the Crystal Gayle length tresses that> you and others on this board sport. However, Mrs. Flea> has hair 3/4 of the way down her back and is probably> going to grow it to her waist and I know/have known> many women with long hair up to waist length. So, I'm> not completely oblivious to your situation, which I've> explained in excrutiating detail several times now and> have no desire to explain again.I think Diane (in one of her responses to you) said it best. If youhaven't been there, you really can't relate. I know from my ownexperience how true this is.Dawn said: "And again, I just have to point out that its not along vs short thing, the adversarial stance only ever comes fromthe "short" side you'll notice, so your entire take on the subjectis slanted already and you're not really hearing what people aresaying. If you were, maybe it wouldn't seem so boring."Your reply:> Oh, I'm hearing folks and I'm admittedly somewhat> slanted, though I see both sides. As I've said> multiple times before, I believe that not every> hairstyle looks good on every person. If I met you in> person Dawn, I may very well think you had the most> beautiful hair known to man. That doesn't necessarily> mean, however, that the hairstyle is flattering to> you. A subtle, yet important difference.I understand exactly the differentiation you describe. And it refutesthe conventional wisdom that says that a hairstyle should be chosenaprimarily or only to "flatter the face" ignores the fact that the faceand the hairstyle exist as components of the person as a whole.> Oh, and why do I now find this boring and repetitive?> Because I could write your response to this post> before you even write it. :)You couldn't resist another neat little compartmentalization, huh?Dave
Actually, I read Dawn's response, but didn't dare respond because I saw an awfully lot of defensiveness in her post.I have been on both sides of the fence -- long and short. I'll absolutely admit that my very first post here didn't leave a good impression, but as you saw the photographs, I wasn't truly butchered and am not psycho, although I will certainly admit to pushing the limit with a drastic change! But I will say something I thought I'd never say: I'm glad I did it. Do I love short hair on me? No, not really, but I've learned a valuable lesson. Hair is hair and it grows. I very much love long hair, but not to the exclusion of defending it at all costs. I tried patiently to explain to Dave how long hair *on some people* is not flattering because it draws the face down, which ages people, yet he was completely oblivious to it. And poor Dawn is threatened that I may get extensions which cheapens her efforts at long hair. Interestingly enough, I've been there. I have naturally blonde hair, though as I've gotten older, it's gotten darker. I took great pride in high school that I had "naturally light blonde hair" and thought of those who used highlights and color as "cheaters" (like Dawn said I would be with the extensions). So, I do understand how Dawn would feel insecure about that.When I had long hair, I would absolutely cringe at the thought of any type of a major cut. I became defensive, just like Dawn and Dave, so truly I understand the threat. But I honestly think I have a much healthier attitude towards hair. And believe it or not, a very long-haired lovely lady from Canada named Diane played a significant role in that transformation. Sure, hair is an important accessory, like jewelery or shoes, but it's an *accessory* only.Guess what? Life is short. As long as we don't hurt others, we should do what we want. Especially with subjects as superficial as hair. In less than 7 hours, I'm getting my hair highlighted. I'm still a natural blonde, yet I'm getting a boost from a salon. So what? A few hours later, I'm going to another salon to match extensions to my new color. My new long hair will be extensions. So what? Does it negate Dawn's efforts of growing long hair? If so, then it just proves the point that for some, long hair is a security blanket that leaves people bitter and resentful.What I've learned from having short hair is that, yes, I do prefer long hair. But it isn't the "end-all" of the world. Having short hair opened my eyes. No, I'm not saying that one *has* to have short hair to be open-minded, but geez guys! Some of you are overly defensive. I'm in my thirties and wear mini-skirts. I work out frequently and have a decent body, yet some will say I'm too old. Guess what? I honestly don't care. I dress for *me*. I've also received an awfully lot of compliments on my short hair. I do like it but I definitely prefer long hair. I'll grow it out for *me*. But I won't feel threatened if someone says, "Hey, you're getting a little old for long hair, aren't you?" I'll just smile, confident in my decision.>>Not doubting your convictions, but just because Jena thinks change is OK and has decided to not let her hair become the defining characteristic of her personality and life does not make her "wishy washy".Probably that was the best thing ever to come out of my short haircut. I always thought that a major part of my femininity and sexuality was contained in my hair. Certainly, hair plays a role! But slowly, I've learned that it is by no means the defining chararacteristic, and you know what? It's a very liberating feeling. I am growing my hair out, but for a healthy reason. I simply prefer the look, not because I think it will make me "more" feminine or "more" sexy. Dawn, a wishy washy person doesn't change, out of fear of the unknown. Short hair is no longer an unknown to me. Long hair is a preference for me, not a political statement or declaration of my willpower. It takes willpower not to eat junky foods that we crave or for an alcoholic not to drink alcohol that he craves. Unless we crave short hair, I'm not sure what willpower it takes to grow long hair. I'm not saying it's easy! I can't grow my hair to my waist, but it isn't because of a lack of willpower. Giving proper care to hair to grow (and having the genetics for growth) is different than willpower. Willpower is working against an opposing force that is threatening your goals. Again, an easy example is food. We desperately crave that Snickers candy bar! Yet we have the strength to say no to it. Are most long-haired people sitting around, strongly resisting the force to cut their hair? Highly doubtful. Yes, it takes work and patience to grow hair long, but I'd question willpower.Know what? I want my long hair back eventually, but I still feel confident even in short hair. I'm happy! And it's a wonderful feeling!
Hi Jena,> But I honestly think I have a much healthier attitude towards hair.>> Know what? I want my long hair back eventually, but I> still feel confident even in short hair. I'm happy!> And it's a wonderful feeling!I am honestly very happy for you that you feel this way.> When I had long hair, I would absolutely cringe at the> thought of any type of a major cut. I became> defensive, just like Dawn and Dave, so truly I> understand the threat.Actually, I did not perceive either threat that I received as beingone which posed any immediate, actual or real danger to me, especiallynot the joke (in poor taste) by my colleague. What I have tried toconvey in my telling of these events is my deep disappointment that somepeople have chosen to be (at times) quite cruel in their words and that,depending on the context, their words can and do constitute an assault.don't cringe at the thought of a major haircut because I don't thinkof a major haircut. Why not? Because when I was growing my hair outmy thoughts were of what I DO want -- which was (and still is) long hair.I am very confident in my choice to have long hair. Dissenting wordswill fail to dissuade me.I've had short hair most of my life and I am fully aware of whathaircuts and short hair are like, so I've "been there, done that."And now it's long. I've tried the rest and now I've got the best! :-)> Sure, hair is an important accessory,> like jewelery or shoes, but it's an *accessory* only.Interesting subject you raise. Some people do view and treat hair asan accessory. However, in one very relevant way, hair does not fit thecritieria for accessories, such as jewelry or shoes. Clothes, makeup,jewelry, shoes, etc, all of these things can be put on or taken off atwill -- and the process repeated in infinitely short order. Hair canalso be taken off at will, but it cannot be put back on at will! Hairextensions simulate, to a degree, the appearance and feel of *actual*long hair, but the accuracy of the facsimile is, well, less than 100%.> I tried patiently to> explain to Dave how long hair *on some people* is not> flattering because it draws the face down, which ages> people, yet he was completely oblivious to it.I appreciate that you and Diane K. both took the time to explain theconcept to me. I did and still do very much wish to technicallyunderstand the phenomenon, but I admit it still completely eludes me.I'm sorry I'm not so bright in this regard. I am very willing tolisten to you, or anybody else, who would be willing to explain theconcept in another way so that perhaps I may understand what ismeant by this expression.In this regard, we earlier discussed the role that lines on the faceplay, yet it seemed to me that most of the lines on the face were ona horizontal plane, and that having long hair that swept down past theface actually helped to balance those lines. I wrote a long responseto your explanation in the hopes of hearing a response to the issuesI raised but there was none.I re-read your post and you offered this explanation: "Also the sheerweight of the hair sometimes doesn't allow for more body on the backof the head on top, sometimes making the hair look bottom heavy whichbrings the eye focus "down" instead of up." It is interesting to notethat just last Friday I was in a particular place amongst a number ofstrangers and noticed the application of the principle you described,where a number of women had hairstyles that had "body on the back ofthe head on top." I don't wish to discuss the desirability of such anappearance, but I had a chance to study the look, and to me, it seemsthat when a short hairstyle has "body on the back of the head on top,"THIS particular type of hairstyle has a tendency to drag the face downfrom its "normal" position. In other words, when hair is smooth anddoes not have "body on the back of the head on top," the top of theforehead (assuming no bangs) seems to be about one inch from the topof the head (top of the highest hair), whereas women whose hair has"body on the back of the head on top" had the top of their foreheadappear approximately 2 or even 3 inches below the top of the highesthair. What does this mean? It means that although the "high hair"might make the woman seem a bit taller in stature, it moves (drags)down the position of her face relative to her entire body. In otherwords, to my eye, the woman who has achieved "body on the back of thehead on top" has succeeded in finding a hairstyle which has a tendencyto "drag the face down," relative to the *perceived* top of her headand the position of the face in relation to the body as a whole. Sothe notion that long, smooth hair "drags the face down" seems to meto be misapplied to long hair; however, it does seem to apply toshort hairstyles which have "body on the back of the head on top."I hope this made sense.Take care,Dave
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