Dawn mentioned something about "fake" hair

> Hi JerkyFlea,> I don't see a "distinct" difference between> your category 2 and 3> definitions.I've said that several times actually, that we shouldn't be that far apart, yet somehow we continue to be. In my "moment of clarity", I was trying to point out (obviously ineffectively) that we have strayed somewhat from the point to fighting over what one poster says to another. That's why I said it may be just a big misunderstanding that has gotten out of control.> As for me, my thoughts on what I think is> "the most> appropriate" course of action (for the person)> depends in large part on> how they make their case.Ok, please don't take this the wrong way, but it becomes difficult for someone to make their case when you don't know how to put it into terms the other person will understand. For example, I understand what someone means when they say that long hair can "drag down" your face or that fullness on top or in the back can balance out a full face or short stature. As you've stated before, you don't and that's fine. However, it is then much more daunting a task to explain it in terminology and use examples that you would accept. Does that make sense?> If a person says that they> are indecisive,> thoughtful people in *either* camp (as you define> them) suggest methods> to help the person to make their decision. If a person> says "I have> long hair and I'm going to have it cut," it's> pointless to even comment> because the person is only informing everyone of their> plan.Yet, there usually seems to be at least one response that tries to talk them out of it and tosses in the word "regret".> It's not fair to anybody (and I mean, anybody) to> state a hypothetical> perspective, frame it as a sort of "political> party line," and apply it> to a group where persons a, b, and c are on "one> side of the fence,"> and persons d, e, and f are on the other side. Each> and every one of> us has a voice and can speak for our own selves.Exceedingly true. We are all much more complex people than one could glean from the information on this board. However, I would wager that, for better or worse, a first time visitor to the board reading all of the posts would probably categorize us similarly to the groups that I stated. Plus, keep in mind that I wasn't just referring to the respondants on just Hair Politics, but on all of the HB boards.> One other thing... I have yet to see evidence of> anybody expressing the> notion that "cutting long hair is the end of the> world." If this> outrageous statement is truly what you glean from the> messages of some> or any of the folks out, I would like to politely> suggest that you study> their words more closely. What you have said is> tantamount to attributing> extreme points of view to a group which you do not> consider yourself a part.> So your comment could be seen as rather inflammatory,> don't you think?(SIGH) I intended the cliche "it's the end of the world" in the way it is usually used, i.e., an action the significance of which is overly dramatized. Not to say that it isn't traumatic to many people, but most of the people with long hair that post on this forum seem to have a deeper emotional attachment to their long hair than most.You and others only found the statement inflammatory because we (and I include myself) have now been reduced to picking apart every post word for word, looking for a point of attack. And I think we're all tired of it. Heck, I know I am.Later,JFRelated Link:JerkyFlea's Celebrity Hair Spray

>> Believe it or not, in most discussions, I try to> reach a conclusion agreeable to all parties involved.> However, being pragmatic by nature, it is difficult> for me to ignore facts presented simply to facilitate> peace.That is where you certainly get in trouble. You see it your way only and you don't see the whole picture. The messages have always be cleared. Respect, respect respect and respect no matter how one slice any post. ( Diane)>> You may accuse me of reading things into posts, but> isn't it just as bad to not read things that ARE> there?Okay Jerky Flea I should have type that you read things that are not there in the posts. I am french so it is reverse for me when I type in english. lol You have misuderstood people views and it caused problems at times. ( diane)

I thought i had stumbled into the daycare portion of hairboutique. But, it was to my surprise that I was in "Hair Talk". Everyone might as well have put on jerseys and picked sides. However, I do agree with jerkyflea, to a point, that there are two categories of hair enthusiasts. Those that agree that whatever you do with your hair as far as length is fine as long as you can live with it afterwards, and those that feel long hair is the way to go. I probably fit in to the latter of the two. I don't necessarily feel as though I'm against extensions. But beware they too have a downfall. I have always had long hair, and if I cut it and then decided to have extensions I wouldn't feel as though any recognition or compliments i received on behalf of the length of my hair were truly deserved. Anyone can buy flowers but the praise for having grown them is far more fulfilling. I don't mean to slam whomever chooses to get extensions. But, there are far better ways to achieve praise then by douping the appraiser. In short, I know I'm probably going to catch hell for this and thats fine. Sorry, if I offended anybody that was not my intent. We should all live to make ourselves happy and not any one kind of people.

> I have always had long hair, and if I> cut it and then decided to have extensions I wouldn't> feel as though any recognition or compliments i> received on behalf of the length of my hair were truly> deserved.If you and I were shopping and I chose an outfit for you and hair adornments and did your make-up and you received compliments, would you feel you didn't deserve the compliments since it was actually someone else who did your makeover?Or if you hired a painter to paint the outside of your house instead of doing it yourself, and someone told you, "Hey, I love the new paint job on your house," would you feel you didn't deserve the compliment?Perhaps there is a difference between accepting a compliment on how our hair looks and receiving a compliment on the patience it requires to grow it longer. Please don't feel threatened just because someone does whatever it takes to make her hair look her best. Now, if she lies and says she took years to grow it and it's not true, well then, I'd be miffed, too! I do understand how you feel, though, because as I mentioned in at least a few other posts, when I was a teenager, I had a beautiful color of light strawberry blonde hair, and I was very proud that it was totally natural. But you know what? As I've grown older, I've learned that these are all just superficial things. As Diane from Canada has said, it really is more important what's on the inside.If you're confident of yourself and you know that you have naturally long hair without extensions or hair pieces of any kind, then it shouldn't bother you what others do.PS -- if it makes you feel any better, I didn't get the extensions. :-)

Bravo! We're getting a little too serious about our follicles.

Having a ball. Thanks everyone!

> Hmmm...I do believe that achieving hair growth as a> life goal might be viewed as a detriment if one put it> on one's resume.Doing so would be inappropriate, yes. A resume intended to land employment is served only by achievements relevant to the field of employ in question.Goals can be set and achieved, irrespective of the value of those goals to another person.

> No offense, but anyone with> the right genes can do it! But obtaining an education> or athletic goal or something that takes work, instead> of just patience (although patience is a wonderful> trait!), will most likely ultimately satisfy us in> life.It might be just patience but many many people don't have patience in whatever goal they chooses. They want things now. Off the resume sitting down having an interview it might or might not play a small facture. If it does it only shows the personal determination of that person . When I was a manager I would notice these things. I would look to see if the person is taking care of themselves. Now if someone came in and had long hair that look like hell that wouldn't have impressed me at all. ( diane)Long hair can fall out due to drugs or be> accidentally cut off in machinery, so then where are> the results of all that "hard" work? You> can't cut off or lose intangibles like education,> fitness, and so forth.You can toally screw up your life and be so so educated. At least hair grows back . Reputation can't ( diane)> I don't want to start any fights, but is total> dedication and obsession with growing hair long really> that worthy of a goal? Sure, one of my goals is to> grow my hair long. And I'll be happy when it reaches> past my shoulders! But I'd honestly be a bit> embarrassed to say that I was "proud" of it> -- to me, it would be like saying, "it's the only> thing I am capable of doing to provide me with a sense> of accomplishment."I love this question. How about when we lose lots of weight? we feel that we have achieve the biggest accomplishment and end up feeling like a new person right? There is no set rules on accomplishment. The other day I manage 20 yards of dirt, I really feel I accomplish something eventhought my body was dying of pain. All my gardens look great now and I can enjoy them. Just because you are proud of something it doesn't mean that you are not capable of achieving many many other goals that are professional or personal. Why not pad yourself on your back and say way a go?For myself I want to say that I had long hair once in my life. I was born bald, had curly blonde hair as a toddler, had light short brown hair as a child, had shoulder lenght for years. I really want to acheive my personal goal. I have acheive many goals that I can be very proud of and I want to achieve this one. ( diane)> Hair goals can be good, but it seems to me that they> might be taking a greater precedence over things that> might potentially benefit us and other people in the> world. For instance, I'd take the accomplishment of> being physically fit and healthy but having short hair> over that of having healthy, luxurious long hair but> being overweight and not physically fit.I don't understand. Having goals are healthy. The make us successful. I know this very successful business man and he shown me how important little goals can be. We can have 20 goals or more going all the same time and it doesn't stop our lives. It doesn't prevent us from dealing with the important issue as family etc. ( diane)>Have fun enjoying your new hair style Jena.Diane

Ok, one last time and then that's it for me.> I no longer feel defensive about> keeping long hair.I'm still very confused as to why, because you seemed to have felt defensive about your hair, you assume others harbor these same feelings?>Oh, I still want long hairI'm curious as to why?>but I don't need it to feel good about myself.Then why the wig 8 or 10 hours a day?>Hair is not the all-consuming obsession that I've observed >in others.Well, this is a hair board, consequently it would follow that the discussion revolves around a relatively narrow subject matter, that being, hair, a fine and delicious slice of life. However it would be rather ridiculous to extrapolate that a slice is somehow the essence ofthe whole pie. But then, the presumption that a very specific comment, regarding a very specific event, and a very specific situation wherein it was suggested that it represented a certain degree of hypocrisy to run for the security of that which one has just deemed life stifling was somehow akin to a blanket condemnation of all physical manipulations affecting one's outer appearance has also been presented so it would appear that the misinterpreting of meaning knows no bounds. The phrase "all consuming obsession" is a good example of the dangers of "reading into" posts sentiments that do not exist and attributing anger, defensiveness, insecurity, jealousy, obsession or other emotions where none are present. To then makecontentious remarks regarding those erroneous perceptions is a slippery slope.>I don't take life so seriously anymore and> have a much better sense of humor!All that from a haircut? Spiritual epiphany, enhanced sense of humor? Not bad for a mass of irrelevant dead cells.>I admire long hair> very much.Why, if its no big deal and anyone can do it? Wouldn't admiration be reserved for that which has inherent value?> There are far more> important goals and endeavors to pursue in life than> sitting around worrying about my hair.You had to cut your hair to learn this? Ok, well, people often find personal growth in things which others might find obvious.> growing hair long isn't so terribly> impressive on a resume'.Perhaps not, but as Noreen pointed out, its what got her the job, so hey, whatever works. I don't, however think that anyone is advocating growing their hair as their life's work, now are they? And as Clare so incisively mentioned, not many people list their exercise regime, waist size or time in the 100 yard dash on their resumes either.>No offense, but anyone with> the right genes can do it!Hardly true, since countless people with lovely hair are often pressured into living without what they desire because of career or other social factors. And as with sport, quite often what's required to prevail goes far beyond mere physical ability and into the realm of the heart, requiring inner fortitude and character, but since its been previously misinterpreted that strength of character can be equated with the willpower to resist a candy bar, perhaps this reference is a futile one as well.> I don't want to start any fights, butThis appears to be similar to the I don't want to say anything conceited but.... train of thought.>is total> dedication and obsession with growing hair long really> that worthy of a goal?Again the word obsession, which is a gross misinterpretation of the facts and represents a distorted perception about what has been written here. Its important to try and quiet one's own inner noise and actually hear the voice of the writer rather than projecting one's own motivations or assumptions onto the text. I've heard references toanger, defensiveness, insecurity, the threat of punishment for ones mistakes, obsessiveness, vanity, and many other emotions but I would submit that those are often the sentiments of the reader being projected onto the words rather than the true voice of the writer being accuratelyperceived.>Sure, one of my goals is to> grow my hair long.Why sure? Why have this as a goal at all if its so embarrassingly unworthy? Just curious.>And I'll be happy when it reaches> past my shoulders!Why, if its not a big deal and its possible to feel just fine without it? Why strive for it, why bother?>But I'd honestly be a bit> embarrassed to say that I was "proud" of it> -- to me, it would be like saying, "it's the only> thing I am capable of doing to provide me with a sense> of accomplishment."I can only hope that this is not somehow intimating that for all those with long hair it is the sole sustaining accomplishment in their lives. It has been my experience that the lovely and talented women I have come to know who have, or aspire to hair of extreme length are some of themost interesting, well rounded, intelligent, creative, successful, humble, selfless, spiritual, accomplished women I've ever had the privilege to be friends with, their hair, as with my short haired friends of rare beauty and style, being just one of the many, many, many things about them that is extraordinary and their pride in theiraccomplishment simply one of the many, many, many achievements from which they draw personal satisfaction and fulfillment. Again, the assumption that a discussion of this one narrow aspect of one's life can somehow be used as a means to extrapolate the notion that hair is ALL these people are about is, well, humorous and an illustration of the need to filter out one's own static when attempting to receive a persons message as they intended it.> Hair goals can be good, but it seems to me that they> might be taking a greater precedence over thingsBy what means can this conclusion be drawn? I wasn't aware that contributing to a message board regarding hair provided some x-ray insight into the private workings of peoples minds, motivations or lives outside of cyberspace. Does it impart some omnipotent sense of what else people see as important in their lives or some rare ability to ranktheir lifes priorities based on a few messages regarding hair and its social ramifications? That would seem unlikely.> might potentially benefit us and other people in the> world. For instance, I'd take the accomplishment of> being physically fit and healthyI'm sorry, I'm confused again because somehow it seems like this sentence is advocating that commitment to one aspect of the physical being is somehow superior to another and somehow would hold true for all people rather than just as a personal preference. And I'm not quite clear how beingovertly figure conscious would somehow benefit other people or the world as a whole.> I guess what I'm saying is that growing hair long> shouldn't mask what's really important in our lives.Again, I'm not clear on when it was that anyone else seemed confused about what was really important to them in their own lives.> Hey, I can tell my hair is growing! And I'm happy> about that. :-)Why, if its no big deal?> I've learned more about myself and what's most worthy> of our focus in life.Hair, or rather the lack thereof, taught this? Quite an impressive feat for an insignificant accessory.>And I've learned thatAhh, more life lessons gleaned from hair. I'm again not clear on why it is spiritually and morally superior to garner deep meaning on the purpose and importance of various aspects of life based on the experience of cutting ones hair, yet somehow obsessive, insecure, compulsive and just plain inferior to capture some shred of the same during the process of growing ones hair.When Yoko cut her hair it was a deep and meaningful symbol of her loss since her hair, FOR HER was more than "just hair". When a buddhist monk shaves his head it is a deep and meaningful symbol of his faith since all others of his nationality grow their hair to its natural terminal length and FOR HIM he's not sacrificing "just hair". When we refer to someone as a dumb blonde, or assume someone is "mousy" and timid because they have brown hair or insist she must be "fiery" because of her red hair, we are making value judgments about a persons inner life based on superficial information. If I can have my intelligence, vanity, sexuality, life philosophy and overall personalityjudged by the color or cut of my hair (something the outside world does to me on a daily basis), then it is very much more than "just hair". If hair is nothing more than a fashion statement for some, hey, that's fine, trash it, manipulate it, shave it off if you like, its not my concern, but don't assume that view is one size fits all. If hair were unimportant we wouldn't spend so much time and psychic energy manipulating it and we wouldn't judge people by it. We wouldn't need wigs or extensions or dye or permsor straighteners or the thousand other things we use to create the hair "persona" we desire. (Things which, by the way, I have no opinions about, they are personal choices and I am and have always been deeply 100% pro personal choice, provided of course that one hasn't first patronized and demeaned a particular choice then immediately beaten apath back to the security of same said choice, in which case, it would seem only logical to question such proposed activity.) So maybe there is a lot more to this hair thing than just changing it like you would a pair ofsocks or your earrings. No one judges your intelligence by whether you wear hoops or studs, but they think they know your heart just because you were born a blonde or a redhead or whatever or you wear your hair a certain way.I'm always saddened that this issue seems to polarize people in such a way and result in such wild misinterpretations. I'm sad and frustrated too that it always get portrayed as a long vs short issue as though there were something inherently adversarial in choosing one way over another. Is it time to just let it go? I volunteer to go first. As a final note I should also point out that the questions contained herein are rhetorical in nature, meant only as food for thought, not to elicit any response, and that if you are right now as you read this hearing anger, resentment, contempt, or other accusatory emotions they are not mine and not my intent.Peace to everyone and namaste to those who do now and have always heard the true voice within these words, you know who you are!Very best wishes to all,Dawn

If everyone would please refrain from putting anything into anyones mouth, even feet.