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gender v roller sets

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MR-HAIR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MR-HAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: gender v roller sets
    Posted: February 11 2000 at 2:13am
I think roller sets are a wonderful method of styling, and people tend to believe that there is too much stigma associated roler setting, Iam a 30 year old straight
male who has enjoyed many a roller set over time, I think
that the greatest joy is when you see the shock
on a female hairdressers face when a male who is
over walks into a cosy little salon and asks for a shampoo
and set, after all if girls can enjoy short spiky haircuts
what is the difference?.
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hre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2000 at 10:14am
Another interesting question. I think this falls into the same category as why it is generally socially unacceptable in the US for men to wear skirts, dresses, wear makeup, paint their nails, have traditionally female names etc while it is OK for women to have short spikey haircuts, wear men's clothes and name their daughters Alex, Blair, Kyle etc..

This is not my idea but I think it makes sense. We have a hierarchy that goes something like : plants, animals, children, women, men, God. It is OK to imitate up the scale but unacceptable to imitate down. We tell children not to act like animals, young adults not to act like children and boys not to act like girls. The women's movement won women the right to imitate men but the fact that it is still socially unacceptible for men to imitate women in many ways is a sign that women are still looked down upon in our society.

When the time comes that setting your hair in rollers if that is your style does not raise any more eyebrows than a woman getting a short spikey haircut arrives, it will be a sign that men and women have achieved some sort of equality.
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Jennifer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2000 at 2:27am
If it really makes you feel masculine, by all means, play with the rollers, make-up, skirts, and high heels!! I sincerely respect your right to play "beauty shop" but find it terribly feminine. And FWIW, I don't want equality with men. Men and women are different. Period. Neither is superior, but we're simply not the same. Women used to be respected, but since we threw off our bras and chopped off our hair, it's been downhill. We want to be treated like men, but when we are, we scream HARASSMENT!! I don't want to be treated like a man! I personally like the big brotherly, chivalric treatment that men give ladies. And, sorry to offend, but my knight in shining armor wouldn't be caught dead with his hair in rollers, wearing women's clothing! Ah, but to each his own. {grin}

Jennifer
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hre View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2000 at 11:23pm
For what it is worth, the present "system" actually works just fine for me. I am essentially lazy. I comb my short masculine hair when I get out of the shower and my hair styling is done for the day. My hair is the generic male style and has been essentially the same for the last twenty years (except for these grey "highlights" that are taking over). I wear clothes. If it is cold I hear a heavier shirt. If it is hot I wear a light shirt. When you are a guy this is considered perfectly normal. No one tells you to do something different with your style because you look outdated. There is no pressure to change the color of my hair. No reason to waste time painting my face in the morning etc etc. Yes, it is boring. I think guys are boring but that too is considered normal. My wife seems to think I'm cute and while I don't really understand why I'll take it.

While it works for me as a guy though, it doesn't change my belief that the fact that "feminine" things are demeaning to to males in our society while "masculine" things are not demeaning to women is a symptom of an underlying misogyny. I wonder if in the days when it was NOT OK for women to imitate men in so many ways if there was more of an "equivalence" between the sexes than there is today with the sexes striving for "equality". I wasn't alive then and I think it is very hard to see previous times without a modern day bias.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Godiva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2000 at 9:59pm
I don't come here nearly as often as I used to, but hre, you have made some excellent, thought-provoking points here. Your hierarchical theory astounded me, and you have a keen sense into the gender inequalities down through time, remaining still today.

There isn't anything inherently feminine or masculine about curling hair, wearing lace, skirts, makeup, stockings or high heels. It's all due to intense conditioning from birth that modern westerners associate these behaviors with only women. However, in ages past, just like with long hair, all the above so-called "feminine" decorations were regularly worn by the male gender, and without so much as a second glance from the equally-frilled female gender (except when the ladies found the gents attractive!). In fact, long, long ago, Viking warriors tied their beautiful long braids with ribbons prior to battle! History always provides explanations to frustrate misguided modern-day preconceptions.

Jennifer Eve
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Ally View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2000 at 8:24am
Jennifer, I'm with you. I like men to be strong, protective, and /masculine/. Long hair can be part of this look, but rollers just smack of cross-dressing.

There's nothing /wrong/ with a man using rollers in his hair (or cross dressing, for that matter!), but I think it's offputting to most women. I couldn't take someone seriously as a lover if I knew he did that.

Ally
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2000 at 11:56am
I think history can explain much of what happened at that time of life, and we can always learn from history! But I also think it's important to realize that as time has evolved, things change. Some things will stay the same, and some things will change. But just because something worked or was accepted at one time in history doesn't necessarily mean it's appropriate now.

Regards,

Jennifer
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Jennifer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2000 at 12:06pm
And I think it's very important to understand that an opinion is not a condemnation. Although you and I don't find a man in rollers very appealing (!), I don't think either one of us wants it banned! Much of opinion about hair is cultural, which is why I wonder why a man would like to do something that is culturally known as feminine.

The head is a very sensual part of our bodies, and I personally love my hair being brushed or having my husband run his fingers through my hair, so I can certainly understand why anyone, male or female, would find that appealing! But, in my opinion only, it just seems odd that a man would specifically enjoy getting his hair set with rollers.

Jennifer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2000 at 10:37am
"Changes aren't permanent, but change is" -- Geddy Lee

Jennifer,

Things will not stay as they are now. Changes happen because there are underlying forces within people (within this society) to change.

You say, "Just because something worked or was accepted at one time in history doesn't necessarily mean it's appropriate now." Would you agree, then, with this idea's corollary that "just because something works or is accepted now doesn't necessarily mean that it will be appropriate in the future?"

The only difference between your statement and its corollary is the referenced point in time, but as history is a continuum, the difference is meaningless.

Some people seek to pressure me (and others, both men and women) to conform to society's short-hair norm. To me, it's that pressure which "doesn't work" and is inappropriate.

Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 19 2000 at 11:52am
Hi Dave,

>>Would you agree, then, with this idea's corollary that "just because something works or is accepted now doesn't necessarily mean that it will be appropriate in the future?"

Oh, absolutely! Who knows -- maybe one day the mainstream will be that men have rear end-length hair and women will wear buzzcuts! I rather doubt it, but one never knows....!

>>Some people seek to pressure me (and others, both men and women) to conform to society's short-hair norm. To me, it's that pressure which "doesn't work" and is inappropriate

Actually, I very much agree with you. I certainly have my own preferences, but I do not feel it appropriate that others actually pressure you to cut your hair. Although I won't hide my preference for short hair on men, I hope you don't feel like I am in any way "pressuring" you to conform to my own personal tastes.

However, right or wrong, anyone who falls terribly out of the mainstream will always draw attention to himself. If I see someone wear 4-5" purple or green spikes, a huge dog collar, and the body enveloped by leather and chains, it's merely a subconscious reaction to take a double look. For a person who is extraordinarily thin or extraordinarily fat, the same thing happens. I think it's wrong to express a negative opinion to the person but the eye is naturally drawn to that which is different. But looking is different from staring! Like it or not, long hair on a man (the longer the hair the more this is true) is fairly non-mainstream today.

BTW, I think it's also important to point out that just because someone's views of hair are mainstream doesn't mean that the reason is to "follow" the crowd. Even if long hair were the norm for men, I'd still prefer short hair on men! Conversely, sometimes a person who falls outside the norm is there *only* out of rebellion for the norm, and sometimes it's just because those are his true feelings. And I'm not at all "against" long hair on men. It is a simple matter of preference. That's all!

Jennifer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2000 at 6:36am

Dave,

I realize this is geography/culture-dependent to an extent, but I really believe the "short-hair norm" for men is dissolving. Around here, no one would look twice at you, unless it was to cast an admiring or speculative glance.

I think rollers are a separate situation. Hell, getting your hair set in rollers at a salon practically /is/ history, unless you're a little, old lady. (I don't think this guy is talking about a perm; he's talking about a "set.")

Ally
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daddyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2000 at 3:03pm
Perms can be tough on your hair, so guys get their hair set, either in a salon or elsewhere, as a healthy way to fulfill their naturally human desire to preen and groom ourselves so we look our best. Problem is, as others have noted we have tremendous societal pressure to restrict guys from enjoyinging the pleasures of pampering themselves, while women are thought odd if they don't.
In my club there are two guys now who set their hair with rollers. One is an older, burly athletic guy who nobody could call feminin. He's 6' or more, very fit, broad shouldered, and pretty hairy. He's got a full nicely groomed beard and salt and pepper colored hair that is naturally wavy. Every Monday morning he comes into the club with a head full of rollers his wife has set the night before. He'll wear a knit hat or a shower cap, play a game of raquetball, round the track a couple of times and then join a few of us in the saunas, setting his curls first in the steam than the dry sauna. His secretary takes them out when he gets into his office and catches up on his e-mail and voice mail.
The other guy is a younger guy growing his hair out and inspired by Tony (the guy above. He' taken to a similar regimen. I don't tink any of us think a healty interest in their personal grooming and a ppearance. Sounds like somr thing the modern, affluent American male should be entitled to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 20 2000 at 11:45pm
Since you like to primp and preen, do you like to wear mascara or lipstick to help bring out your natural features? Do you like to shave your underarms and legs? Do you like to wear high heels and nylons?

And, do you like to wear rollers in your hair because of the way it makes you look or the way it makes you feel?

Jennifer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 21 2000 at 8:37am
Hey, Daddy-O.

I agree that men are entitled to do anything they like to their hair. But I think this thread is about impressions. A roller set on a men is highly unusual and--dare I say it?--effeminate.

What if I walked into barber shop and asked for a warm lather and a nice, close shave? I think I should get what I ask for (and pay for), but don't you think that's a little weird?

Ally
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr-hair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 07 2000 at 4:33am
Why do you asume that if a guy is into roller sets he is naturally into cross dressing and make up, this may be so in most cases but there are some guys out there like me who just like to take pride in there appearance and will go to whatever lengths to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2000 at 7:24am
I believ in most crossdressers cases, it's the thrill of the experience, the so called forbidden fruit. The jealousy and waiting all those early years coming to a head and finnally being treated as a lady like they've always desired, it's possible that maybe some cannot get the girl of their dreams so they become her, sounds like fun regardless
Patricia
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MR-HAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2000 at 4:19am
Just because a guy takes pride in his appearance, it
doesn't automatically mean he paints his nails and
wears dresses you know, heaven knows I dont but I
have been known to participate in the odd roller set,
it started as a payback for being smart to a senior
hairdresser when I was a 17 year old apprentce.
Initially I protested strongly, however I later gave
in, after all the apprentice must abide by a seniors
instructions, so what the hell...
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MR-HAIR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MR-HAIR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2000 at 4:19am
Just because a guy takes pride in his appearance, it
doesn't automatically mean he paints his nails and
wears dresses you know, heaven knows I dont but I
have been known to participate in the odd roller set,
it started as a payback for being smart to a senior
hairdresser when I was a 17 year old apprentce.
Initially I protested strongly, however I later gave
in, after all the apprentice must abide by a seniors
instructions, so what the hell...
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