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Are "We" Getting Left Behind????

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Forum Description: Topics On History & Philosophy
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Printed Date: January 30 2023 at 4:04pm


Topic: Are "We" Getting Left Behind????
Posted By: BIGGMike
Subject: Are "We" Getting Left Behind????
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:09am
On the Verge:
Are We Leaving Black Men Behind?

As Jill Nelson explains, relationships between Black men and women aren't just suffering from the lingering effects of slavery and ongoing racism--there's also the little matter of our own academic and career success

Spend time with women and the conversation usually comes around to men and relationships--the good, the bad, and the "maybe I can make this work" variety. If the majority of those women are of African descent, relationships are also often discussed, longingly, in the context of women's lack of, and desire for, a positive, fulfilling relationship with a Black man.

Different as we are as individuals, there is some agreement about which elements make a relationship work. One essential ingredient: a man who is hardworking, committed, ambitious, and determined. In short, a man we can actually partner with.

There are obstacles in all relationships. Yet in many cases, African-American women are faced with an additional set of hurdles, many of them the outgrowth of our legacy of slavery and Jim Crow, as well as the continuing existence of White supremacy and White privilege.

The systematic destruction of Black families during and after slavery; the victimization and sexual exploitation of Black women, witnessed by powerless Black men; and the overriding assumption of Black inferiority--and its flip side, White superiority--still have a profoundly negative effect on us and our relationships.

A denial of the continuing emotional and economic impact of this country's unresolved history of slavery is as silly as the refusal by many White Americans to acknowledge any responsibility for White racism or White-skin privilege because, as they indignantly state, "No one in my family ever owned slaves!"

Yet the portrayal of Black men as fearsome, violent, and sexually predatory continues to label and stigmatize them in American culture. Black women may be stereotyped as sex objects, Mammy figures, or invisible. These aren't exactly positive images, but they've allowed us the wiggle room to manipulate the system more effectively than Black men can--to sometimes slide under the radar in ways that Black men often find impossible. This is not to suggest that we are less oppressed, but simply less feared.




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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!



Replies:
Posted By: pmp4lfjmike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:11am
 where you find all that info at?

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Posted By: T foster 0202
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:15am
My man Bigg Mike, always educating us with the Black History.....

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"Girls like them low cut ceasars and the deep waves"
    Became a vet 12/23/05


Posted By: Chi-Town_Boy
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:25am

HE REPERSENTING 4 THE BLACK PEOPLE



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Making A Big Comeback New Pics Coming Soon



Posted By: P Street
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:30am

yeah this is a good article. you cats can go amazon and do a search. type in Nathan Hare. him and his wife have several books discussing the black family and issues such as this. their books are all quick reads. matter of fact, here is the link.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-8214137-5970348?url=index%3Dblended&field-keywords=nathan+hare - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/104-8214 137-5970348?url=index%3Dblended&field-keywords=nathan+ha re



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Neophyte no longer


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:34am

The ways in which Black people in general are defined by society--restrictions and images that we, over time, internalize--can have a deeply negative impact on our vision of what is possible in our lives, and make it that much more difficult for us to form lasting, loving partnerships.

Education Matters

Over a lifetime, college graduates on average earn twice as much as high school graduates. According to the latest stats from the U.S. Department of Education, in 2001, almost 1.7 million Black students were enrolled as undergraduates in the United States. Of that number, 63 percent were women, and 37 percent men(Get an education young MEN, don't get left behind)

Why are so many more Black women in college? There are myriad reasons--some personal, some historical, some systemic. A http://www.acenet.edu/hena/readArticle.cfm?articleID=1223" target=new>report from the American Council on Education suggests that in addition to troubled homes and a lack of male role models--both legacies of slavery--boys' negative experiences in school, where they are frequently identified as troublemakers and tracked into special education, set the stage early on for educational failure.

The flip side is that girls are socialized and treated differently, and subject to very different expectations. It's a cliche that "we women" raise our daughters and love our sons, but there's truth in most cliches. It seems that one of the messages young Black women hear early, and often observe, in their families and communities is that they may very well not be able to depend on a male partner in achieving educational and economic success.

While the fierce sense of independence that often results has many positive aspects, one of the negatives may be a skepticism about partnering and our own lowered expectations of Black men. I spent most of my childhood in a two-partner household with successful working parents. Yet I consistently heard the messages from older women in my family that I could not and should not rely on a man, should get an education so that I would never be dependent on a man, and should always have my own--private--bank account.

Neither my grandmother nor my mother would have identified themselves as what they called "women's libbers," although their message was in some respects a feminist one. And while economic self-sufficiency is important, it's also true that the unspoken subtext of their advice was that it was unlikely that I would find a Black man on whom I could completely depend. I'm certain that I carried at least some of this attitude with me into my relationships with men.

More Choices, Fewer Men?

According to the National Center for Health Statistics, between 1990 and 2002 the birth rate for all Black women decreased 13 percent. Black teenage girls had the biggest drop of any group: 41 percent. Clearly, increasing numbers of young Black women are waiting to have children until they have completed their education, started working, and begun to achieve some financial security.

Without question, these choices are good for Black women. Yet it is also true that if we continue to outpace Black men in education and income, finding eligible men with whom to build relationships will become even more difficult. This situation poses many challenges and raises many questions, including these: How do we protect Black boys from being marginalized by an educational system that bombards them with low expectations? Should we be rethinking our own notions of gender roles and family in ways that respond to our history as a people, as well as the current reality that many of our communities are facing?

There are even more personal questions: How does the decision to continue our own education and postpone having children affect our relationship choices? Must heterosexual women, faced with fewer eligible and educated men, choose between celibacy and sharing a man? Or do we have to "settle" for a man who earns less money and is not as educated as we are? And is that "settling" or, more positively, is it creatively adapting our needs and desires to real-life circomestances? And what about looking for a partner outside the race?

I don't have any answers yet--just lots of food for thought--but I'm convinced that these are the types of questions we need to be thinking and talking about in our families and communities. What I do know is that we can't all be Cliff and Claire Huxtable. But that doesn't mean we can't be equally loving, effective families and couples--albeit different in composition and substance.

Do you feel that your level of education has affected your relationships with Black men? How so?

Are we in danger of leaving our men behind as we climb the ladder of success?

Can we repair our relationships by rethinking the qualities we look for in a partner?

Share your viewpoint in the comments section below. I know you are thinking about it, so write about it.

Young men this is what your mom don't talk about but is fully aware of. Why don't she talk about it? Who knows!!!

I guess she does not care about you or your future in this country we call America.



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:36am

Just trying to set it off a little.

You know we all have to think about our future because only WE can control our thoughts and actions.



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: pmp4lfjmike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:49am
Yep I feel ya.. true all the way..

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Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 10:54am
If the news reports, internet forum topics, and magazine articles are to be believed Black women are vastly exceeding Black men in educational attainment. Yet it is plain to see that the actual difference isn't that great (the percentage of black women who obtain college degrees are only 2 points higher than men). The female population exceeds the male population in the black community. Therefore in addition the percentage differential, the number of black women with college degrees would exceed black men, simply because there are more black women. Still the differences are not that great, and in no way does it justify the alarm sent out within our community! In addition to this, it should also be pointed out that white women earn degrees at a higher percentage than white men (they also outnumber their male counterparts). However no one is up in arms about that.

If the Black woman is beginning to outperform the Black man in the workforce, there are more factors at play than level of education. This is what we need to focus on. Where are these women working, and who are they working for? Are we talking about the number of Black women who are their own businesses? Women who have become successful as a result of their innovative ideas? Or are we talking about Black women becoming more successful than Black men in white corporate America? If we are talking about the latter, then I suggest we need to look at racism. This is especially important in light of my illustrating that the educational levels between Black men and women are not that extreme. Indeed I ask outright is a primary factor in the Black woman's rapid rise over the Black man largely due to white America's preference to work with a Black woman? Is the Black woman seen to be less of a threat to white corporate America? Is the Black woman more desirable (take that however you want!!! ) to white corporate America?

These questions are even more relevant when we consider that the numbers of African Americans with college degrees are in the overwhelming minority (14% of the population). Yet we are still seeing black women excel in the workforce at a more rapid pace than black men. There is clearly bias at play here. I've been very disappointed in the "gloating" done by some black women (and their white supporters!!!! ) in the media over the past few years. There are some brilliant business minds amoung Black women in this country. In no way am I trying to diminish their accomplishments. However, I think it should be apparent that in today's time Black women are given easier access to corporations than Black men. We are living in an age of "hidden racism" & conceiled discrimination. Bias often occurs in ways that aren't obvious. In the overwhelming majority of the cases, we don't control the companies that we apply to. These corporations (usually controlled by white males) are free to hire whomever they wish. In the case of a corporation that seeks to hire & promote black women over black men, bias isn't apparent (because a black person is being hired and promoted). However that doesn't mean this isn't what is happening.

All this being said, Black women are becoming more successful than Black men. Many are on the verge of leaving them behind. It is causing a wedge in our community, and needs to be addressed MEN. I encourage those who are interested in looking at all the factors involved. As I've pointed out, there is more to this story than meets the eye. The black woman surpassing the black man is not something to celebrate or gloat over. If our community is to flourish, WE must both rise together!

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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 11:03am

More???.........

Black men have some bad fertilizer and rain falling ( on us ) in our lives at this time. So we must stay out of the rain as much as possible and keep dry. By enhancing our chances of getting ahead. We do have the notion get paid right. But it is all about how we go about it. We have to do more building of groups of successful thinkers and doers. Collaborating on serious issues and things that will make us grow. I often bring this to my cousins, and nephews. My family is very close knitted. One of the small can lodge a complaint up line, and have as much power as the oldest in the line in my family tree. This is something you find and recognized right away. If you come around. ( No one is allowed to take from another, bad mouth or cheat or smother ) So it is a check and balance going on my mother established with us. The large is no more powerful than the small. In my family's tree every branch yields great power. I have instilled that into my kids and they are to do the same for theirs.

Surveys are trusted, until they do not yield the desired and needed information. They are tossed and disregarded if the do not support the premise. For example ( how many have heard the poll about 2/3 of Americans think the U.S. should dismantle and never have nuclear weapons again ) they took the poll and do like the results. So now they will scrap that one and reword things to get the desired reply. Folks are tired of the president ( king ) kicking the subjects. ( Us ) Taking our taxes and giving nothing in return.

My point is black men haven't been totally put out of the game. We are survivors. As our ancestors mastered the jungle, this one will soon be mastered too.  


The set-up I will call it have worked hard all these years on this plan to keep the black men from attaining the success they deserve and desire. We are just as educated, not in the mass numbers, as black women. Because many black men of college age are behind bars. Broken in sprit, and caught up in the game. Of being dishonest, and deceptive. Putting the issue of gaining something to sustain him like a home and a education etc...last, getting the booty first is all consuming to many these days. ( wrong jungle to conquer at this time, especially if you have no time or cash to dine ) ( made me think of Destee's post about, how important is sex to you... thread )

The author spoke of woman sliding under the radar, and I agree that is part of it. They are allowed to do so many more are in the reach of white men that desire to break us up and get them for them selves. During slavery they could just take her, but now the have to fool her ( console ) and get her comfortable before they move in for the take over. This is a big factor in the attack on black men. I know this fact. if we were successful, it is known that we would not only have our beautiful black sisters at our side, but all of the white woman would be wanting us more because of our ( charisma ) lion walk pride.



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: sjay
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 11:32am
BIGGMike always comes w/ the knowledge

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Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 12:18pm

Just trying to give the young men a heads up on what's really going on.

We are built up as boys but when we become MEN we get attacked from everywhere, even our own women.

It was in shock when I finally could understand what was going on. Understand what's going on young MEN.

You want to know why all the women are getting ahead and the men are falling back. The above article explains some of the main reasons.

 



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 12:29pm

Main reasons

1. White Corporate America accept Black Women but reject Black MEN that have the same education and experience. TRUE!!!!!!!!

2. No Male role models in Black Families.

3. Don't want to marry or don't stay married.

4. No African Pride (Most say they are not of Africa)

5. Have been fooled into thinking some people care about them when they really don't.

6. Being used as a Tool to discredit and emasculate Black MEN.

7.  No religion or Spiritual beliefs. No God in school anymore.

8. Feminist Gone Wild (Destroying Human Kind, if you destroy MEN, you destroy human kind)

9. Negative sterotypes, Negative images of Black Men

10. YOUNG BLACK MALES NOT LISTENING OR RESPECTING THEIR ELDERS!!!!!!



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: LBoog
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 12:31pm

BIGGMIKE always giving us knowlege we need



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Al B Sure negro with the hair all wavy
Hit lakeshore girls go all crazy
Hit the freeway go at least bout 80
Boned so much that summer even had him a baby


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 12:33pm


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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 12:36pm
Malcolm X

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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 12:39pm

Report: More women, black men in prison

Black men are more likely than any other group to be locked up

WASHINGTON - The number of women in state and federal prisons is at an all-time high and growing fast, with the incarceration rate for females increasing at nearly twice that of men, the government reported Sunday.

There were 101,179 women in prisons last year, 3.6 percent more than in 2002, the Justice Department said. That marks the first time the womenís prison population has topped 100,000, and continues a trend of rapid growth.

Overall, men are still far more likely than women to be in jail or prison, and black men are more likely than any other group to be locked up.

At the close of 2003, U.S. prisons held 1,368,866 men, the Bureau of Justice Statistics reported. The total was 2 percent more than in 2002.

Expressed in terms of the population at large, that means that in 2003, one in every 109 U.S. men was in prison. For women the figure was one in every 1,613.

Number of factors
Longer sentences, especially for drug crimes, and fewer prisoners granted parole or probation are main reasons for the expanding U.S. prison population, said Marc Mauer, assistant director of the Sentencing Project, which advocates alternatives to long prison terms for many kinds of crimes.

The increase began three decades ago, and continues. The new report compared 2003 figures with those from 1995.

The number of women in prison has grown 48 percent since 1995, when the figure was 68,468, the report said. The male prison population has grown 29 percent over that time, from 1,057,406.

Five percent growth rate
Year by year, the number of women incarcerated grew an average of 5 percent, compared to an average annual increase of 3.3 percent for men.

ďIt coincides exactly with the inception of the war on drugs,Ē in the 1980s and continuing into the 1990s, Mauer said. ďIt represents a sort of vicious cycle of women engaged in drug abuse and often connected with financial or psychological dependence with a boyfriend,Ē or other man involved in drug crime, Mauer said.

The prison figures do not fully reflect the number of people behind bars. About 80,000 women were in local jails last year, along with more than 600,000 men.

The federal prison system held a large share of female prisoners, with a population of 11,635 at the close of 2003. One state ó Texas ó held even more, with a population of 13,487. California, the nationís largest prison system, held 10,656 women. North Dakota had fewer women in prison than any other state ó 113.

Among other findings in the report:

  • More than 44 percent of all sentenced male inmates were black, and many of them were young.
  • Among the more than 1.4 million sentenced inmates at the end of 2003, an estimated 403,165 were black men between 20 and 39.
  • At the end of 2003, 9.3 percent of black men 25 to 29 were in prison, compared with 2.6 percent of Hispanic men and 1.1 percent of white men in the same age group.
  • In 11 states, there were increases in the prison population of at least 5 percent, led by North Dakota with an 11.4 percent rise.
  • Also, 11 states had decreases. Connecticut had the biggest drop, at 4.2 percent.


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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 12:43pm

Should some of these lost MOTHERS be locked up like Black FATHERS are locked?

Just a question not a statement.



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: dino
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 1:22pm
u lost me posting a pic of KAYNE WEST..he "part time" concious


Posted By: sjay
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 2:25pm

^kanye is a voice for many ppl. he says things that many are scared to say through a media that connects with younger ppl. ie... rap



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Posted By: Ice-Man
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 2:29pm
AMEN

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THE KEY TO 360'S IS TO BRUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by sjay sjay wrote:

^kanye is a voice for many ppl. he says things that many are scared to say through a media that connects with younger ppl. ie... rap

This is true. He is a voice for many people.

Look at the things I say, am I afraid to say what is true?

Some people are afraid to say the things he or I say. So Kanye West is the voice of many people. Some people fear what will happen to them.

I don't fear anybody but God. That's why I say what I feel is true. I know some people don't like me for this. They didn't like MLK or Malcolm either. That's why they hate on me. Let them hate on me, I'm gonna keep telling you young men the truth so you can be free and survive in this messed up world. Think about.

 



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: P Street
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by sjay sjay wrote:

^kanye is a voice for many ppl. he says things that many are scared to say through a media that connects with younger ppl. ie... rap

when it comes to being a voice, i think Nas is more to the point than kanye. kanye says things but then he also wants to be associated with white people and their world.



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Neophyte no longer


Posted By: THECHOSEN1
Date Posted: December 22 2005 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by P Street P Street wrote:

Originally posted by sjay sjay wrote:

^kanye is a voice for many ppl. he says things that many are scared to say through a media that connects with younger ppl. ie... rap

when it comes to being a voice, i think Nas is more to the point than kanye. kanye says things but then he also wants to be associated with white people and their world.



how dose he want to be assocated with white people


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waveing is mental a barrier u must over come



Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 23 2005 at 1:42pm
Nas is something special

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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: pmp4lfjmike
Date Posted: December 23 2005 at 2:27pm
What kinda product you use biggmike?

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Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 27 2005 at 10:10am

Naw homie we on some African culture right now. 

Coming up as a young teen, I remember seeing more families together  back then than right now. Everybody breaking up talking about childsupport and being independent. In the US we young men are really in trouble because many of us do NOT go to school.

Kanye and Nas is on some get money stay free. Both them cats speak of things that other rappers skip over cause they trying to cross over and sell more records. So that's kinda how I am. I know I'm not the most popular person with everybody but I'll still reach a lot of people with my message. 



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: December 27 2005 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by BIGGMike BIGGMike wrote:

Main reasons

1. White Corporate America accept Black Women but reject Black MEN that have the same education and experience. TRUE!!!!!!!!

2. No Male role models in Black Families.

3. Don't want to marry or don't stay married.

4. No African Pride (Some say they are not of Africa,.... WRONG)

5. Have been fooled into thinking some people care about them when they really don't.

6. Being used as a Tool to discredit and emasculate Black MEN.

7.  No Religion or Spiritual beliefs. No God in school anymore.

8. Feminist Gone Wild (Destroying Human Kind, if you destroy MEN, you destroy human kind)

9. Negative sterotypes, Negative images of Black Men

10. YOUNG BLACK MALES NOT LISTENING OR RESPECTING THEIR ELDERS!!!!!!



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!


Posted By: lilkeke918
Date Posted: December 28 2005 at 12:31am

I donít call my self African bc Iím not from Africa. Acts in the bible talks about prophets and in 13:1 prophets were called Niger meaning black. Where are the prophets from? Exactly my original black people migrated to Africa to spread their teachings. Go against expectations I am constantly told I will go no where and be nothing. This come from the mouth of many corporate white americans. Yet I constantly prove them wrong. People will not hire you, then hire yourself become your own boss and start a company. Do your research find out how corporate America works. Then come up with a idea they cant live without. Nothings wrong with a female raising you so long she is in the correct state of mind, and tells her child whether it be male or not the truth about the world. So they wont grow up baby minded (naive). Stop watching tv so much and start reading books. Which is another reason why we donít have positive role models on tv. Kids grow up seeing gangsters and drug dealers which in turn they become that their selves. Creating more gangsters & drug dealers. 80 percent of the people you see on tv donít actually live the life they portray to you. Also elders have to get away from the seen and not heard belief. Even if they are young they have opinions and should have the right to express that. So until they stop telling kids they donít know nuttin or that ainít been through the things they have, because they have grown up in todayís society they have endured at times worst. They donít deserve respect.



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Im an Ocean yall cats are just ponds


Posted By: pmp4lfjmike
Date Posted: December 28 2005 at 8:56am

This is serius stuff right here



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Posted By: BIGGMike
Date Posted: January 10 2006 at 11:48am

                        



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Look to the skies and keep your eyes on the prize! I been through Hell but, STILL I RISE!



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