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UGH!! Highlighted hair with goldwell & toned but

Printed From: HairBoutique.com
Category: Hair Talk
Forum Name: Hair Color
Forum Description: The tricks and tribulations of changing your hair color
URL: http://talk.hairboutique.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=62189
Printed Date: July 24 2014 at 7:38pm


Topic: UGH!! Highlighted hair with goldwell & toned but
Posted By: sackpac
Subject: UGH!! Highlighted hair with goldwell & toned but
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 2:44am
it's still orange.  My natural hair color is about a 7 with various old platinum highlights. I have been reading and asking questions on this forum for past several months to learn how to highlight my hair and avoid cost of hair salon.  You all have been very helpful and I thought I understood everything but having trouble. I used 1 part Goldwell 11P permanent topchic color with 2 parts Goldwell 40v dev. with a squirt of Goldwell ash blonding cream. This is after various strand test experiments with 30v and 10P/10A with orange results.  I wanted to avoid bleach and didn't want to tone.  I left this mixture on for 45 minutes then shampooed. It ended up pretty orange but only at my roots(the new growth) which surprised me. I used 1 part wella color charm in princess blonde (ash tone)with 2 parts 20v and left it on for 30 minutes.  I thought it would only take a few minutes but it took the entire 30 minutes and was still a little orange. It looks ok but is still orange on the top and crown of my head, not really anywhere else(weird).  I really wanted platinum high lights and my hair is lighter, just not what I expected.  Why didn't the toner work better? Did I do something wrong? How can I take remaining orange out? Regarding my hair color am I mixing the color up wrong? Do I need to resort to bleach? I'm really sorry this is so long.



Replies:
Posted By: Marie_Uk
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 8:19am
hey I've been having the same problem for a long time. I've tried lots of different colour variations but what I seem to get is bright orange roots and the rest ends up overtoned (I've tried goldwell 11n, 11a and now 11v) all are okay but don't lift my roots and some make the rest of my hair blue. My friend who is a hairdresser assures me that I don't need bleach and to be honest when I've used bleach in past I've ended up with a similar result.
Let me know if you manage to solve the problem. Just out of interest what is your natural colour?? I don't understand levels so just tell me the colour lol.


Posted By: Susan W
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 8:29am
Sackpac:  You really need to use a blonde shade that has a blue base to counter orange.  Don't go by the word "ash", because that can mean violet on blondes, and violet does not counter orange.  I'm not using the Topchic stuff, so I don't know it personally, but it sounds to me like you are using a violet base to get so much orange from level 7 hair.  If your topchic stuff doesn't say what base is in it, you may want to consider switching to another brand that does say.  The base color is information you need to know if you're going to get predictable results.

Using 2 parts 40 volume with a light blonde ought to do it.  If you aren't using a high lift shade, you may want to consider doing so since you want white hair (I use Clairol 12 high lift with a blue base to get mine to a nice yellow blonde.  If I wanted white, I would then do it again with a high lift that has a violet base to lift a little more and counter the yellow.  This is done only after every speck of orange has become yellow.

  A violet toner can also be used instead if you get it a light enough yellow for you and you just want it more ashy.  Toners are not permanent however and doing a high lift a second time, while damaging, probably isn't going to be as damaging as repeated toner use every couple of weeks to keep countering the yellow that reappears).

Edited to add:  Doing what I said above will give you all platinum hair if you're doing your whole head. Just pull out pieces and do it to only them if you want it to look like highlights. 


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Making metal barettes/concord clips hair safe, long hair style how to: http://alonghair.wordpress.com


Posted By: sackpac
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 1:31pm
Marie UK-I am a natural med to dark blonde, really hope we can figure this out!
 
Susan-according to Goldwell their ash colors are blue based. Is it because I used 11P which is blue-violet? I used it because I thought it would counteract the orange and yellow and I figured the blonding cream ash would knock out the rest of the orange.
 
Which Clairol highlift do you use or is there only one. What is your base color and what process do you go through to lighten your hair? Thank you for all your info.
 
Here is the topchic color chart(bottom of page):
http://www.brightonbeautysupply.com/productimages/goldwell/topchic/GWTopchicuserguideEnglish.pdf - http://www.brightonbeautysupply.com/productimages/goldwell/topchic/GWTopchicuserguideEnglish.pdf


Posted By: Ifixbadhair
Date Posted: August 18 2008 at 5:14pm
Sackpak,
Using the 11P with double 40 volume is correct.  The ash blonding cream is extra ammonia that usually gives extra lift.  Did you highlight your whole head?  Did you start your timer after you finished applying all the color?  Did you use heat to help process the color?  I know that some colors say not to use heat, but the ends of your hair do not have the benefit of body heat to help them process at the same rate.  Did you saturate the hair with the color?  I could scold you for not doing a strand test first, but that wouldn't fix the problem.  Confused  This should have worked, and I feel bad for you.  I have used this formula time and time again.

What I am wondering is why you would use 20 vol. with the toner.

I would hold off on the bleach until after a good protein treatment followed by moisture.  The stuff you used was pretty strong, and you wouldn't want to damage it by putting bleach on it right away. 

It could also be that you had previously colored your hair.  There is truth to the rule that color cannot lift color. 


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Beauty is on the head of the appointment keeper.


Posted By: Ally<3
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 6:52am
It doesn't have to be so complicated, honestly. A lot of people have this problem.

The reason is they're scared to use bleach. Hair color will only lift a couple of levels, and rarely works with lifting to blonde on a level 9 or below.

I don't really understand what you're trying to achieve. Are you trying to do platinum high lights? Or an block blonde color?

People are scared of the word bleach but they need not be. Color does not lift color, so if you continue putting color on your hair you will continue to be frustrated. You will only ruin your hair in the long run by over processing it. If you use it right bleach does not hurt your hair at all, in my opinion. Actually my hair looks shinier after I do it. Buy a professional product like Redken Levitation oil bleach ( I use it) and a professional toner (Wella Color Touch - Demi permanent).

Basically orange means too much underlying pigment is left in the hair to achieve the level and tone you want. Lift the pigment with bleach to the correct level, put a toner (not a colored conditioner, these are gentle colors that change the tone of the hair and add shine) in the color you desire.

Simple science.

Applying it is a different story. I'll go into it further if you decide to.


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If you cannot afford to go to the salon to get it fixed, you can not afford to take the risks of box dye!


Posted By: Susan W
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 8:39am
Sackpac:  You can see my natural haircolor in my link (click on hair journey on the menu at the bottom of that page).  I haven't done highlights on the back of my head, just a few in the front is all I do anymore. Maybe I'd call it a level 7, but either way, it is dark blonde.

At the Sally where I shop, there are only 2 Clairol high lift platinum shades.  One has a blue base, one has a violet base.  Just doing the highlift with the blue base and 40 volume is enough for my hair to get to blonde.

Maybe you're right Ally, bleach would be quicker, but I like getting there with high lift dye because the blue base color counters my orange and gets me to a nice blonde shade that isn't too yellow, that way I don't need to tone.  I usually don't even bother with using violet over that, as it doesn't come out too yellow for me, so I get there in only one process with permanent results.

Sometimes I do go out in the sun on a summer day with my dye on, it does help with the lifting, but it seems to do something to the blue base too. It doesn't counter the orange and yellow as well when I use the heat of the sun to speed up the lightening.  Sometimes I don't mind that, because yellow is a good color on me and I just do a few highlights on mine, so I keep it golden.  If a person was going for an ashy shade though, definitely going in the sun (or using heat) may not be the best idea.  You may get enough lift but you would need to do another step afterward to counter the yellow.





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Making metal barettes/concord clips hair safe, long hair style how to: http://alonghair.wordpress.com


Posted By: fakeizme
Date Posted: August 19 2008 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by Ally<3 Ally<3 wrote:

It doesn't have to be so complicated, honestly. A lot of people have this problem.

The reason is they're scared to use bleach. Hair color will only lift a couple of levels, and rarely works with lifting to blonde on a level 9 or below.

I don't really understand what you're trying to achieve. Are you trying to do platinum high lights? Or an block blonde color?

People are scared of the word bleach but they need not be. Color does not lift color, so if you continue putting color on your hair you will continue to be frustrated. You will only ruin your hair in the long run by over processing it. If you use it right bleach does not hurt your hair at all, in my opinion. Actually my hair looks shinier after I do it. Buy a professional product like Redken Levitation oil bleach ( I use it) and a professional toner (Wella Color Touch - Demi permanent).

Basically orange means too much underlying pigment is left in the hair to achieve the level and tone you want. Lift the pigment with bleach to the correct level, put a toner (not a colored conditioner, these are gentle colors that change the tone of the hair and add shine) in the color you desire.

Simple science.

Applying it is a different story. I'll go into it further if you decide to.
 
ClapClap Preach! This is so true. You should just make it easy on yourself and your wallet by getting a good bleach. 40 volumes and highlifts are more damaging than bleach.
 
You very likely would have already been where you want to be if you had just used bleach to highlight, then tone. You could use a highlift and 30 vol. for your base and then use the bleach highlights to cover any brassiness from that process.
 
Good luck to you!


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Love clip-ins and tape!


Posted By: sackpac
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 4:10am
Ifixbadhair: I pulled strands through a cap and highlighted those and I started the 45 minutes after I applied all color. I did not use heat since it was 108 degrees and my scalp was very warm with the cap.  The ends of my hair are fine, it's my 2 inches of new growth at my scalp that is orange. I did saturate my hair, so much so that some of the color leaked through the cap holes for an extra special effect of tiger striping on my scalp. Confused  I also did do a strand test which I really couldn't tell a big difference but did not notice any orange.  Also I used 20 vol with the toner as instructed on the toner box. My hair was highlighted (foiled) about 6-7 months ago using Goldwell 10 series with 30V. These highlights looked great (almost white blonde) so I know it can be done but apparently I can't figure it out.Cry   
 
Ally I'm trying for platinum highlights which I've had stylists doing for years with Goldwell every 3 months. My hair has always been left in great condition.  That's why I've stuck with Goldwell. When the 10 series (ash and pearl) didn't work I went to the 11 series with blonding cream and 40V, I was so sure it would work-I honestly do not understand how it can't. I would llike more info on the bleach process, thanks!
 
Susan You have beautiful long hair and it's close to my natural hair color.
 
Fakeizme, you've helped me quite often in my hair journey and I never dreamed it would be this difficult to figure this out. But here i am. Angry
 
Anyway I'm going to be conditioning my hair pretty well and give it a little rest before I try anything else. It any of you see where I may have erred with above processing or can give any other suggestions I'd appreciate it. Also if you can suggest a good bleach and toner and directions what I need to do regarding processing, what I need to look for, etc I would really appreciate it!  Thank you all for your help, no way I could have gotten this far without youClap


Posted By: Susan W
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 8:36am
Thanks!  What we were all getting at (but I realize we maybe didn't say outright) is that you didn't lift enough.  You need more than 30 volume developer to get the amount of lift you needed to get past the orange stage.  All the stuff we've been saying about high lift or bleach would give you more lift than 30 vol.  Even the 11 series with 40 volume doesn't give as much lift as a high lift dye would with 40 vol. 



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Making metal barettes/concord clips hair safe, long hair style how to: http://alonghair.wordpress.com


Posted By: fakeizme
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 11:25am
I agree with Susan; you just may need a higher volume. It can be soooo frustrating trying to formulate colour! I think you're doing a great job. You're also doing a good thing by giving your hair/scalp a rest in between trials!
 
Don't mean to push bleach; I'm sorry if that's the way it comes across. You are definitely an example, though, of Level 6/7 heads that aren't necessarily EASY to get blonde. You sound like you have a lot of underlying pigment and it's hard to lift out of the orange stage. There's a lot of people like this. I just hope you are leaving the colour on for at least 50 mins (high lift). It needs that time to process properly.Smile


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Love clip-ins and tape!


Posted By: Ifixbadhair
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 11:30am
Sackpac,
Again, I'm really sorry that it didn't work for you.  The 11-series is the highlift series from Goldwell.  It wounds like you did everything correctly.  I'm afraid that the only solution now is bleach.  I would be sure to mix it on the thicker side so it won't seep into the holes.  Apply it to the orange area first since it is problematic.


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Beauty is on the head of the appointment keeper.


Posted By: sackpac
Date Posted: August 20 2008 at 10:59pm

I did the highlift 11 series with blonding cream with 40v as I thought that would eliminate any orange. I don't understand how my hairdresser didn't pull orange. I left the color on for 45 minutes as it was my understanding that it stops processing after that amount of time.

What is a good bleach and would I need to tone after? Can you suggest a good toner? Thanks everyone!
 



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