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Balancing mechanism

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uzma View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 30 2003 at 5:00pm
Hi Everyone

I would appreciate your thoughts on the following:

On another HB board, there has been a discussion about how often people wash (as in shampoo) their hair.
Most posters washed their hair more than once a week, with a few shampooing every day.

Also, on other HB & non-HB boards I have read that people get itchy scalps the day after shampooing and that causes them to think that the scalp is dirty and needs to be washed again.

Now, from what I understand about the way skin (scalp included) works, sebum (natural oil) is produced from a gland within the hair follicle in order to give a light, protective and conditioning coating to the surface of the skin.

If this coating is stripped off the skin, the sebaceous glands will work harder to try and compensate by producing more sebum to reinstate the protective layer of oil.
This would suggest that a balancing mechamism is in operation.

The itchy scalp may be the tightness of the oil-stripped skin &/or the sebaceous glands kicking into action. To shampoo again when you get this itch would surely exacerbate the imbalance.

The more you shampoo, the more you itch, the more you shampoo……???

Of course, people also condition to replace the lost sebum, but the molecular structure of chemically synthesized conditioners is vastly different to sebum (jojoba and some essential oils excepted). Hence the penetrative quality is just not the same. Does the scalp even recognize/accept conditioner as an adequate sebum substitute?

Also, the purpose of conditioners seems to me to be more hair-related than scalp-related. I could be wrong, of course.

So, we alter the balance of sebum on the scalp and then try and replace this coating on the scalp and hair with another substance.
Hmmmm. What is the long-term impact of all this on the scalp and hair?

Does all that shampooing action/friction wear away the hair cuticle faster?
Does the continual stripping of sebum and application of detergents/sulphates/etc, sensitize or negatively damage the ecology of the scalp?

Am I talking utter rubbish?

Please share your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Uzi
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Lady Maria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2003 at 8:06pm
Uzma,

I have no idea if you are talking "rubbish" but I know one reason I like to wash my hair every day, or nearly every day, is that not only does it feel clean but your hair smells better, and smells and feels fresh! Also I think it feels better to the touch using shampoo and conditioner fairly often.

Of course now, unlike you Uzma, I don't have much hair to wash, but even when I had long hair I washed my hair fairly often.

Was that good for my hair and scalp?

Who knows?
Lady Maria
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DaveDecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2003 at 8:56pm
Hi Uzma,

I think you're on to something.

The more you shampoo, the more quickly those sebaceous glands pump out the sebum (and the more quickly your scalp gets oily), the more you shampoo...

Conversely, the less you shampoo, the more slowly your scalp gets oily.

I discovered this myself when I gradually went to once-per-week shampoo. Anymore, when I wash more frequently than that, it gets oily more quickly. So I have to "coax" it back to once a week.

Most people use conditioners only on the part of the strands that are at least 6 inches away from the roots (although at least one that I know of recommends its use on all the hair, including the scalp).

Anyway, I generally believe that when it comes to haircare or styling, the less the hair is fussed with, the better condition your hair will remain.

My thoughts.

P.S. Thanks for sharing your website Uzma!
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SuperGrover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperGrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 30 2003 at 10:04pm
Well... yes, there is some truth to that.

But you'd definitely have to gradually build up to that.
Last weekend, I didn't have anyone to impress, and I was wanting to spend every waking moment with my new computer, so I just neglected to wash my hair all weekend! I went for over 48 hours!

BIG MISTAKE. What a tangled rat's nest! I untangled carefully, but any tangle always leaves irrepairable damage to my strands. No matter how gentle you untangle, it's the tangle itself that puts the harsh bends in the hair. ;_;

I suppose I should have put it up to avoid the tangles. Hindsight is 20/20.

Uzma, I LOVE your new website! I admire your thoroughly natural apprach to hair care.
I agree, I wish I could just swim in a river regularly to wash my hair. I used to work every summer at a fresh water lake, and swimming in it several times a day was just heaven!

Sadly, the closest fresh water to me is the Hudson River. I think if you swam in that, you'd come out glowing yellow, or with 3 eyes, or something awful like that. Not to mention smelly! It wouldn't be at all pleasant. Damn 20th century industry and their devil-may-care polluting ways.
"Hair is a part of you. It is not a part of me, because I am a frog." - Kermit the Frog on Sesame Street1b/N/ii ~ ??"/27"/32"
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Isla Q. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isla Q. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2003 at 2:18am
Your balancing theory makes a lot of sense, Uzma. I've heard about it before.
I remember when I was a kid, I washed my hair once a week, but somehow I increased washings to every day over the years.

My scalp isn't really itchy after a day, but my roots become greasy and when I run my fingers through my hair it just feels dirty and gross!
I'm trying to cut it down to once in every two days for the moment. Apart from the oil factor, it would save me some time. But - like SuperGrover said - it's not easy!
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Lyris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lyris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2003 at 7:18am
You're talking about the "rebound effect," which Paula Begoun discusses in her book (which is nowhere near me so I can't quote it...sorry!) Everything I've read indicates the hair community is still very split on whether oil glands truly work the way we think they do, so it's one of those gray areas. Me, I'm fortunate enough to be able to go 3 days without looking really slimey.
Look for beauty, and you will find no intelligence. Look for intelligence and you will find both.Proud member of the Cult of All Soft
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2003 at 6:26am
Thank you all for your feedback.

I’ll admit that the ‘clean feeling, smell and freshness’ Lady Maria spoke of is addictive. Not so sure that it is healthy when done so often, for the reasons I stated originally.

A while back on a chat-show in the U.K, a young lady who had stopped washing her hair was interviewed.
This lady had stopped using water, shampoo, conditioner, etc.
She had b/s length hair worn loose and it looked in good condition (from what I could tell on the other side of the box).
She had not washed her hair for a year. The first couple of months were difficult, itchy and oily, she said, but after that it had been a breeze. Her scalp and hair had “settled down” and were in a harmonious state. All she did for maintenance was brush it twice a day. This is what the Victorian’s used to do – but I think they also washed their hair a couple of times a month.
The chat-show host touched her hair and smelt it. He said it was smooth but not greasy and that it didn’t smell bad.
I personally would not do this as I think in our polluted world it would not be a hygenic practice. But this is also a trained perspective on what is hygenic – nature vs culture. Nevertheless it was an interesting interview to watch. I did admire that young lady’s patience and resolve.

SuperGrover’s tangling after 48 hrs and Dave’s “less hair is fussed with, the better condition” is also an interesting paradox. I guess it depends on the needs of the individual hair type.
I can do without combing for days, my hair being mostly straight with a few waves.
My sister has quite curly hair and if she doesn’t rake it every few hours it becomes a mass of serious tangles. Would it tangle less if the hair was sufficiently lubricated by sebum?
Why do we think that this natural substance is gross? By the same token, is saliva gross? OK – I won’t mention other bodily fluids – Dave will kick me off the board.
What I’m saying is that stuff that our body excretes as waste is necessary for hygene. Is sebum a waste product or a cleansing/conditioning product?
Hmm, Lyris mentioned that there is some doubt about the way sebacous glands work…
OK. I’ve rambled enough. I’m going to check out the science books.

Glad you liked the site, SuperGrover.
The Hudson river sounds deadly!
A few years back I was dipping in a lake and came face-to-face with a pike (big fish with teeth, makes tasty soup).
One the one hand, it reassured me that the lake was relatively clean and supporting a wealth of life.
On the other hand, I had to get out PDQ.

Uzma
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DaveDecker View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2003 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by uzma uzma wrote:

SuperGrover’s tangling after 48 hrs and Dave’s “less hair is fussed with, the better condition” is also an interesting paradox. I guess it depends on the needs of the individual hair type.
I can do without combing for days, my hair being mostly straight with a few waves.
My sister has quite curly hair and if she doesn’t rake it every few hours it becomes a mass of serious tangles. Would it tangle less if the hair was sufficiently lubricated by sebum?
Why do we think that this natural substance is gross?
What I’m saying is that stuff that our body excretes as waste is necessary for hygene. Is sebum a waste product or a cleansing/conditioning product?
Hmm, Lyris mentioned that there is some doubt about the way sebacous glands work…


Uzma, I should clarify... by "less fussing," I meant coloring or perming (for straight or curl) or blow-drying or rough combing/brushing. When I wear my hair loose it will tangle fairly readily and after a day it'll need a good detangling. Unless it has been oiled just the right amount (difficult to define), in which case it remains largely tangle-free. So yes, I believe that hair will tangle less if sufficiently lubricated with sebum.

Why do we think this natural substance is gross? Because we have been accultured to believe so.

Is sebum a waste product or a cleansing/conditioning product? A good question, but I believe its largely cleansing & conditioning for hair and skin. Interesting, those pores, capable of performing multiple functions (sebum for lubrication, sweat for cooling, salt & what-not for "waste" expulsion)... oops, starting to get off-topic myself.

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hairalways View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hairalways Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2003 at 10:14pm
I have always felt intuitively that we are somewhat equipped to clean ourselves....better put, that we are self cleaning. Our bodies slough off dead skin...our "interior areas are self cleaning and our hair , I believe, if it were left to it''s own resources would find it''s own balance. 200 hundred years ago we would not have been havng this conversation because none of the products we have existed. So yes, I think that all we really need for beautiful hair is good food, our fingers and fresh water.
We have all become accustomed to feeling a certain way when we have washed our hair and don''t feel clean unless we have scrubbed all vestiges of human smell from us. This is just my own generalization.

I will share my own experience with this. I have 4 wonderful kids - They never use shampoo in their hair and I don''t force them to. It hurts their eyes (they are all very young). So I make them rinse with warm water and massage their scalp as it rinses. They all have gorgeous hair, have never had a scalp condition, lice, etc.

P.S. I do wash mine every other day and notice that my scalp itches the day after.....hmmm

jacqui
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Lady Maria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2003 at 11:08pm
Speaking of clean long hair, we saw a local folk singer tonight at a coffeehouse who had beautiful long hair about a third of the way down his back, and his hair looked very full and clean, like he had just washed it and shampooed it. He was beautiful! His music was ok, nothing special.

I love showering and washing my body and my hair. I don't care what our ancient ancestors did back in the cave people days.
I don't care if they didn't have soap or shampoo back then when people were living in nature, you will never convince me to stop taking a shower once or twice a day, and washing my hair every day, or nearly every day.

I would rather have every hair on my head fall out than go a year without bathing or washing my hair. That would send me over the edge! I can barely stand going two days without bathing and washing my hair!
I don't care what they did in the ancient times, I love being clean and feeling and smelling good!

Humans bath and use shampoo, monkeys don't.

I am a human!

Besides look at all of the older people who have been using shampoo for 50 or 60 or 70 years. Many older women who are 60 or 70 have nice hair! Shampooing and washing their hair didn't seem to hurt them any!

Sincerely,

"Clean" Maria
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 4:20am
Jacqui

Four little blessings – how wonderful. I bet your ‘nurturing-muscle’ is very well-developed!!
I share your view about the body being self-cleaning. I know it has the ability to self-heal more than we are taught to believe.
We are here today because of our ancestors who, without the kind of “necessities” we require (dependency on synthesized chemicals/medicines etc), survived long enough to reproduce at the very least.
Presently, the challenge for modern urbanites is close-quarter co-existence in great numbers. Smelling each other’s and our own natural smell (I’m not talking dirt here) has become a cultural no-no. We are squeamish about a lot of our natural bodily functions which indicates a certain disconnect/detachment from our intrinsic animal selves.

On the hair angle, I applaud what you are doing with your kids. We took a similar approach with my (now 5 year old) neice, who washes with hot water and a cloth, only uses soap to wash her hands and is other-wise detergent-free. She is strong, healthy and has great skin and hair thus far. I stopped using soap after a bad excema attack two years ago. My skin is clean and has a stability I could only have dreamt of before. Hair has been shampoo-free since Febuary, but I am using other stuff. No itchies, no worries.

Maria

Next time you see that longhaired folk singer, can you take some pics? I need some beautiful longhaired men for my website - LOL.
And you’ve never see a monkey take a bath?? Here you go:
http://www2.gol.com/users/chapa/cphomepage/exhibition/bm1.html

As for long-term use of detergents, you want to step in my shoes sometime and see dermatalogical and respiratory problems from the medical industry perspective. Yeah people, keep over-cleaning yourself and we’ll keep selling you the steroidal anti-cortisones/anti-histamines to control the symptoms. That’s a win:win for commerce and a lose:lose for the consumer….errrr human(?) in the chain.

Uzma
(cynical after too many years working for Pharma-Corp)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hairalways Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 6:49am
They are a lot of fun Uzma.

I also refuse to enter into that vicious cycle! One of my boys has eczema also and responds great to warm water baths and jojoba.


Maria - I don't think anyone has implied that we not bathe. As a matter of fact...As Uzma mentioned above, the development of Urban cities (ie lots of humans together in close proximity)Has necessitated the use of cleansing solutions - not only for smell, but for the prevention of the spread of disease. It has just gotten out of hand in my opinion. A lot of the chemicals used are cheap, and that is why they are able to mass produce a lot of the products and make lots of profit. There is not much effort on the part of ompanies to find more healthful alternatives.

Anyway - I digress.....but in my opinion -

less is more.

jacqui

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Lady Maria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 10:27am
There are environmentally safe products Uzma. I'm sure you know some hair products are more natural and environmentally friendly than others.

I'm pro-environment. I'm pro-new technology fuel cell cars, new-tech windmills, solar panels,etc.
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Lady Maria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 10:28am
Cute pic of monkey Uzma! I am glad it is a nice clean monkey(He he)!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2003 at 6:56pm
So that is what causes allergies, clean hair!!!!!
It is time to file a lawsuit against the shampoo companies. First tobbacco, then junk food and soda pop, next shampoo. What next, oh yeah, coffee and tea, they have caffeine. Of course wine and beer. Knive manufactorers, you could cut someone with a knive.
Yes the world is certainly coming to an end soon. We will all die from pollution, junk food and shampoo.
But all of this has been predicted in the Book of Revelations.
Repent sinners, Repent!!!!! I promise, I will swear off of drugs, guns and shampoo!!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2003 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by Brent Brent wrote:

So that is what causes allergies, clean hair!!!!!
It is time to file a lawsuit against the shampoo companies. First tobbacco, then junk food and soda pop, next shampoo. What next, oh yeah, coffee and tea, they have caffeine. Of course wine and beer. Knive manufactorers, you could cut someone with a knive.
Yes the world is certainly coming to an end soon. We will all die from pollution, junk food and shampoo.
But all of this has been predicted in the Book of Revelations.
Repent sinners, Repent!!!!! I promise, I will swear off of drugs, guns and shampoo!!!!!

And now, back to calm.

Minute exposure to truly harmful stuff doesn't necessarily kill you, or significantly harm you in the short term. Sometimes it takes awhile for the toxin (when exposure is repeated) to accumulate. These days, it's virtually impossible, if not outright impossible, to avoid exposure to artificial chemical compounds. IMO the best you can do is to be aware, and make informed choices to lessen risk.
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Isla Q. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isla Q. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2003 at 2:34pm
Hey guys, I have now managed to increase the time between washings to two whole days. What a time saving experience this is!

Washing every three days: here I come!
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2003 at 5:43pm
YYYAAAYYY.

You GO Isla-Girl!!

Your hair, scalp and (bank manager) will love you for it.

HUGS

Uzma
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2003 at 4:26am
Indeed, way to go, Isla Q.! I'm proud of you.

When you try to increase the interval, maybe go to every 2 1/2 days, until your scalp gets used to that, before going to every 3 days. Just a suggestion, and hope it helps!
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Isla Q. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Isla Q. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2003 at 12:30pm
Thanks for the support, you guys!

And that's a good idea, about every 2 1/2 days. I'l give it a go!
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