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why are great lenghths so damaging?

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sherrie215 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 18 2005 at 8:10pm
well I do know that acetone is used for many types of keratin fusion removal. Acetone is the main ingredient in the high dollar removers with a touch of grycerin & fragrance. So its worth just buying the professional acetone at the BSS for $3 a bottle, compared to $15-$40 for high dollar extension brand name products.

My understanding is that GL main ingredient in their remover is Isopropyl alcohol with a few other basically inert ingredients so there is no reason that you cannot replicate the solution. It is not completely necessary to use the GL name product when you can use the same ingredients found in your local drug store for only a few bucks.
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adina View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 18 2005 at 7:33pm
There is definitely No acetone in great lemgths bond remover.IThe only thing I ever heard about acetone was that clients (not mine) were removing their own extensions with acetone nail polish to save money for the removal process!I actually had 1 client who told me that she was using (nail Polish).That's crazy just to save a buck or 2!
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Jenny_RR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenny_RR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2005 at 7:15pm
Well...**** happens. I've had a lot of time to come to terms with it, and I've chatted with a lot of people online to try and understand what the problems were and how I could avoid them in the future. Fortnately, I've found a better method for me now. :)
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adina View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2005 at 7:03pm
JennyRR~OMG!!!,I'm sorry that happened to your hair,That's awful!(Hugs!)There are 2 methods for great lengths application.I use the thermal heating method.I also just heat the bond enough to soften it up rather then boil the bonds.(The tempature of the thermal heating system is the same as of the low setting of a curling Iron)I'm not sure about The cold fusion machine though.The other technique is cold fusion with is actually lazer attatchment.I don't do the lazer(Cold Fusion)myself because the machine is very expensive,I think It costs $2500.I have talked to girls who said that tgey don't care for the fusion method for 2 reasons.#1-The bonds were said ti glow in the dark under Blacklights!on the Blonde extensions #2-The extensions don't last as long as thethermal heating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenny_RR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 8:50pm
Ah, the dreaded mullet effect...I can relate. Everyone here seems to be avoiding that look like the plague...if only it were the '80s again...

The best hair I've ever used--better than GLs--was a batch of hisandher Cuticle hand-tied 28 inch in black. Simply amazing hair, imo, but I can't vouch for the lighter colors.... I do think it would be great-quality hair no matter which color it was acutally, but quality also varies from batch to batch, and it's not cheap either... If you're sticking with human, I'd say it's worth checking out. If you're switching to synth, don't bother. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FinaFina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 6:38pm
THANKS for the additional info. I got one bundle from Glamour Hair and liked it but wasn't crazy about their glue tip (just like I'm not crazy about Hairpiece's tip). . .but since I'm converting to Shrinkies (hooray!) that shouldn't matter anymore.

As I posted on the hallelujah synth thread I've got some Wakky hair (my name for that crazy Wa Wa Yaki thing) coming (not that it's any expense, as you well know. . ). I'll get back on Glamour's site though, and look around.

Oh and you know I *HAVE* to ask the question since you said that GL was the 2nd best hair. . .what was the first???

I'm I think demographically somewhat typical of an extension junkie: I have fine, color-treated hair with no body (it has no body even when it's virgin). I lighten it to about a level 8, have a few highlights put in, and end up with definitely multi-colored hair. The overall look is "blonde" and I don't imagine that changing anytime soon. I tend not to wear it too long because I need it to frame my face and don't want to risk the mullet-look. I like the length in the back to be about bra-strap length, but right now it's collar-bone length because I"m having a horrible time with my hairpiece extensions.

WELL it's Saturday night and I'm sure you have some showing off to do Victoria, er, I mean, Jenny. . . ENJOY!!

Fina

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenny_RR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 5:17pm
OK. Lots of info. to digest here. Where to start?

FinaFina: Thanks for your post. I think it's a very realistic overview of GLs, and I agree with 90% of your observations. The expense is amazing--way too much for anyone who wants to wear extensions on a long-term basis who isn't independently wealthy. I have also heard from many stylists that when GLs first came on the market it was head and shoulders ahead of the competition. I will still say that GLs is some of the best hair I've ever worn, but I still don't think it's worth the price.

Keratin is glue, as far as I'm concerned. Not that there's anything wrong with glue for some people, if carefully applied, but it is glue and it is potentially damaging. It's very strong glue, in fact. If your hair is thick and strong and your stylist is good, chances are you'll have no problems; if not, you might have serious difficulties. Most glues are based on natural proteins; GLs is no different, really. And Keratin is widely available for fusion of various kinds. GLs may have patented its particular bond, but there's nothing unique about using Keratin in this way.

I totally agree that NO extensions should be left in the hair longer than three months (personally, I like to switch them out after two months). They will be too far from the head because of your hair growth, they'll start to become dreadlocks, etc. That has nothing to do with the method; it's just a reality of extensions, period.

About the hair quality. I've probably tried 10 brands of human, and GLs was the second best I've ever used. Most human hair on the market is way thinner, less durable, and more likely to tangle. (I explained what I think are the diferences between most human hair and GLs on another thread.) The one brand I used that was better than GLs was hisandher cuticle hair, which is also fairly expensive in its own right.

Without knowing what texture, length, and color you're looking for, I would recommend trying hisandher cuticle (not the minx or regular stuff), glamourhair's remy, or bohyme; pretipping the strands yourself; and trying shrinkies. I don't know that you'll like any of those hair brands better than GLs, but they are at the higher end, imo. If you can do fusion yourself, shrinkies should be a cinch.

As far as what the actual prices are for GLs, I posted them on another thread. In other worrds, this is what the company charges its stylists. Here:
18"-$2.80 per strand
20"-$3.40 per strand
24"-$3.90 per strand

And by the way, there's nothing "cheap" about not wanting to shell out $2000 every three months for hair--it's good common sense, imo.

Oh, and by the way, I just had a full head of pinchbraids applied with 4 bags of hair. Price per bag? $13! So synth is worth exploring, too!

MaginOC: I've worn Cinderella and GLs, and I have to say, the GLs hair was higher quality, imo. Some people have complained about Cinderella hair, but I thought it was pretty good myself. Which is better value for the money--GLs or Cinderella? Cinderella, hands-down.

Just my two cents....

:)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scotchyroo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 4:51pm
Hi, I'm all over this board today... I just wanted to tell the GL posters that there's an article about Great Lengths in this month's Elle magazine (with Uma Thurman on the cover). I came away feeling this process was for sure a "price is no object" gig.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 4:04pm
I am a GL extensionist. We do call it a "keratin bond" because that's what it is. Our bond is patented, so the other companies are using something similar but not the exact same. Think of it like melting two candles at the ends then holding them together and letting them cool, they become one because they are of the same molecular makeup. However, when I put extensions in I only get the bond hot enough to soften it, not boil it, so I can encase the hair and get a good bond. Trust me, boiling keratin is like anything else, it will burn the snot out of you! If it's too hot you can't touch it and therefore can't roll the bond to attach to the hair. I haven't had any clients have hair breakage except for the lady's who husband ripped them out. Nice guy. Hope this helps the BOND issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sherrie215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 2:48pm
Quote uring my cinderella training I was told that GL uses a keratin bond which must be heated at a higher temp to become molten, and thus penetraits the hair shaft which could potentially damage the protein structure of the clients own hair. Suposedly, Cinderella uses an organic protein bond which melts at a much lower temp, and encompases the hair.


I think that sounds logical that if GL has to be heated at a higher temp, that it 'could' be more damaging. But I just want to say that cinderellas 'organic protein bond' is just a misleading way of saying 'keratin bond.' And I think that is what GL calls their bond too and 'organic protein bond'. I just wish these companies would call them what they really are and not mislead people into thinking they are putting something 'natural' into their hair!

Dont get me wrong, I am a keratin/fusion glue/bond wearer myself. But it just really bugs me that companies will do anything to disguise that their product is "GLUE"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FinaFina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 12:26pm
EEEEEEEEK! OK I choose PINK not BLUE. . .but yes you're right!!

Well right now I've got the WAWA hair coming, the shrinkies, the liquid gold, and a lot of work which I can't wait to do!!

I'm wondering if I should have gotten the dome hair. .oh well I'll see when the WAWA shows up.

Best of luck and I'll keep you posted!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Syren123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 12:09pm
Fina, as you will see, your experience is like that of SOOO many people on this board - you're so not alone. And I, along with many others, am in the exact same boat as you are right now - looking for the right combination of hair and application system and someone to help you do it! LOL! Welcome to our world. Don't worry: you're not being cheap by doing what you're doing - just being an informed and smart shopper. I guess getting shaken down for thousands of $$ will do that to a person!
Keep reading this board and the other one (Quinnster's), look at all the different sites with pictures, do your experiments, and you'll only THINK you were obsessed before!! The quest for rock star hair is a long one. I know the feeling - if anyone said I looked like a soccer mom, my hair would be blue the next day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FinaFina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 10:54am
Magin-
Like Jenny I have learned by experience, and, unfortunately through my pocketbook . . .

I love having someone else do my hair but for some reason I'm having a really hard time. . .I dont' think I'm cheap. . .I am very willing to pay someone for their time and expertise but not if I'm going to be unhappy with the results.

So right now I'm a DIY'er learning all I can, conducting a few experiments with myself, and willing to make a few more mistakes (hopefully less expensive and less damaging).

FinaFina
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaginOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 10:36am
Just had to chime in here. First, $300 for a 12" bundle is just ridiculous! They are marking up the hair so the salon/stylist makes more of a profit...or GL is ripping off the stylist. I don't believe there is any way that GL hair is any better than any other remy/euro hair available. And, as we can all see, can be purchased for much less from many sources on the net. I've been using the Cinderella system on my clients for about a year now and have yet to have any complaints about damage or breakage. I agree that application, and client after care are critical. During my cinderella training I was told that GL uses a keratin bond which must be heated at a higher temp to become molten, and thus penetraits the hair shaft which could potentially damage the protein structure of the clients own hair. Suposedly, Cinderella uses an organic protein bond which melts at a much lower temp, and encompases the hair. In my experience with removing Cinderella extensions using the compatible remover/remover tool, the bond breaks up quite easily, becomes crumbly, and just slides right off without any pulling out of the clients own hair. While I think the Cinderlella system is a good one, I have had a few batches of not so great hair. But, that seems to be a consistent theme with any system using human hair. There are so many hair extension systyms available now, I think the best thing is for the client to find the best system for their situation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FinaFina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 8:46am
Hi everybody-

This is a long post -- I apologize -- but I am SO SO SO happy I found this board and have so much to share. . .

First of all, Jenny_RR you are an amazing wealth of info along with some other hair angels on this site--THANK YOU!!

I am a GL VETERAN - meaning - I should own a portion of the company with the amount of $$ I've spent. I discovered GL when it was VERY new and I must admit it was the answer to my hair prayers. (I had tried every other extension method at the time with disastrous results. (Remind me to post a picture of myself when I went to St. Croix looking like "Garth" from Wayne's World thanks to one of these hair methods). When I first started GL I was also in a lucrative job and had the disposable income to spend on it.

Fast forward to now . . . I simply do not have the $$ (or the inclination, actually) to buy GL anymore (I haven't been able to for about a year but have stretched so I could do it. . ."Will Work For Hair" is my motto). I mean $1700 every 2-1/2 months is quite a chunk of change, ya know???

Most stylists will reluctantly agree (I've been to 6 different ones, all very reputable and GL trained) that it *can* be damaging, but they try to mimimize that by saying it's "a natural protein bond" as if you're giving your hair a protein treatment when you apply it.

FYI - the remover is not just alcohol but a particular kind - ISOPROPYL alcohol. GL now makes a "gel" form of it that's a bit easier to work with since it doesn't run all over the place.

Many GL stylists, who are quite aware of the high high $$ amount of their product/service, will say that GL can last "up to 5 months". Well, yes, that's true, but what you have, the longer you leave them in (and they, unlike other keratin bonds, will not decompose, but rather become *harder* over time), is essentially a little "dreadlock" that forms where your natural hair which has (naturally & normally) detached from your scalp (but has nowhere to go because it's stuck in the bond) bends back around to the bond and the hair around it.

SOOO. . .after some time, you are not only dealing with the glue/bond issue, but little tiny knots. You know what that means.

When you pay that much $$ you WANT (need????) it to last long, but the problem is of course it becomes more & more impossible to remove because of the knotting.

The bonds dissolve quite nicely with isopropyl alcohol, but do have to be vigorously crushed with flat-nosed pliers.

Late last year I began experimenting with doing my own extensions. . .I tried to replicate the GL process because I've sat there for so many hours I can do it with my eyes closed (except the back). The problem is I've been using the pre-tipped hair that I found at hairpiece.com. The hair is definitely not as nice as GL even though it's listed as "European Remy" and the keratin tips aren't as secure either. I really miss the GL hair!!!

I've come to terms with the damage done to my hair but just need to find more affordable extensions. I am thinking of buying better weft hair, making the tips, and then trying shrinkies.

What I really would LOVE is to find an extensionist here in Dallas who could work with me on this -- I am more than willing to pay for their time if we could figure out a good hair/attachment method combo.

My GL stylists tell me that GL keeps raising their prices. . .and now the hair is (sit down) $300 a bundle for the 12 inch length (GULP).

OK now that I've babbled on -- I'm looking for suggestions.

Thanks all --

Fina
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Jenny_RR View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jenny_RR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2005 at 6:25am
The acetone--if there is, in fact, a bit of acetone in the product--actually doesn't concern me much. It's not on the hair for very long. I think most of the damage with GLs can be attributed to A) negligent application or removal, B) improper care (such as overbrushing, which can damage the hair underneath--this is true regardless of the application method, really); and C) bad judgement in terms of who is a candidate and who is not.

I truly think, with any kind of fusion, the hair must be healthy to survive the removal process well. Hair that's extremely porous, such as my own, is better suited to braids. This is actually why I don't have a full set of shrinkies yet--I love the way they look and the glue is minimal, but you still have to slide that shrinkie out, so your hair better be strong enough to hold up, and not break off under the pressure. I think my hair is the exception, though. :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2005 at 11:54pm
it is made of 99% alcohol. i asked the company.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purrmachine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2005 at 8:28pm
The GL remover may or may not be made of acetone, I'm not sure. Even if acetone damages hair, I can't imagine it would damage any more than bleach, ammonia or peroxide. I know it is used pretty often by hair replacement salons for cleaning glue out of the hair systems and it doesn't seem to do anything drastic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zapevaj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2005 at 2:17pm
But isn't the GL remover made of acetone? That's my biggest problem with it, that you have to use acetone directly on the hair to get the glue debris off. People's fingernails get so soft when they use acetone that I'd scared of what it would do to a thinner protein shaft, like hair.

-Rae
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purrmachine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2005 at 2:10pm
Based on my experience, what I've read, and just plain common sense, if the correct removal technique is used for most of the fusion type attachments, and the stylist knows what they're doing, there should be little to no problems during the removal process. It seems that most of the horror stories of fusion damage are due to stylists trying to cut corners by using the GL remover for cinderella for example, or vice versa, or plain acetone instead of the remover. And then what happens is a lot of pulling and tugging is necessar because the bonds aren't broken down, and breakage occurs.

I've had 2 applicationso of great lengths and didn't experience much if any damage that I'm aware of. The technician knew what she was doing and the strands came out very easily during removal.
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