Dave as Defensive?

Hi Jena,> But I honestly think I have a much healthier attitude towards hair.>> Know what? I want my long hair back eventually, but I> still feel confident even in short hair. I'm happy!> And it's a wonderful feeling!I am honestly very happy for you that you feel this way.> When I had long hair, I would absolutely cringe at the> thought of any type of a major cut. I became> defensive, just like Dawn and Dave, so truly I> understand the threat.Actually, I did not perceive either threat that I received as beingone which posed any immediate, actual or real danger to me, especiallynot the joke (in poor taste) by my colleague. What I have tried toconvey in my telling of these events is my deep disappointment that somepeople have chosen to be (at times) quite cruel in their words and that,depending on the context, their words can and do constitute an assault.don't cringe at the thought of a major haircut because I don't thinkof a major haircut. Why not? Because when I was growing my hair outmy thoughts were of what I DO want -- which was (and still is) long hair.I am very confident in my choice to have long hair. Dissenting wordswill fail to dissuade me.I've had short hair most of my life and I am fully aware of whathaircuts and short hair are like, so I've "been there, done that."And now it's long. I've tried the rest and now I've got the best! :-)> Sure, hair is an important accessory,> like jewelery or shoes, but it's an *accessory* only.Interesting subject you raise. Some people do view and treat hair asan accessory. However, in one very relevant way, hair does not fit thecritieria for accessories, such as jewelry or shoes. Clothes, makeup,jewelry, shoes, etc, all of these things can be put on or taken off atwill -- and the process repeated in infinitely short order. Hair canalso be taken off at will, but it cannot be put back on at will! Hairextensions simulate, to a degree, the appearance and feel of *actual*long hair, but the accuracy of the facsimile is, well, less than 100%.> I tried patiently to> explain to Dave how long hair *on some people* is not> flattering because it draws the face down, which ages> people, yet he was completely oblivious to it.I appreciate that you and Diane K. both took the time to explain theconcept to me. I did and still do very much wish to technicallyunderstand the phenomenon, but I admit it still completely eludes me.I'm sorry I'm not so bright in this regard. I am very willing tolisten to you, or anybody else, who would be willing to explain theconcept in another way so that perhaps I may understand what ismeant by this expression.In this regard, we earlier discussed the role that lines on the faceplay, yet it seemed to me that most of the lines on the face were ona horizontal plane, and that having long hair that swept down past theface actually helped to balance those lines. I wrote a long responseto your explanation in the hopes of hearing a response to the issuesI raised but there was none.I re-read your post and you offered this explanation: "Also the sheerweight of the hair sometimes doesn't allow for more body on the backof the head on top, sometimes making the hair look bottom heavy whichbrings the eye focus "down" instead of up." It is interesting to notethat just last Friday I was in a particular place amongst a number ofstrangers and noticed the application of the principle you described,where a number of women had hairstyles that had "body on the back ofthe head on top." I don't wish to discuss the desirability of such anappearance, but I had a chance to study the look, and to me, it seemsthat when a short hairstyle has "body on the back of the head on top,"THIS particular type of hairstyle has a tendency to drag the face downfrom its "normal" position. In other words, when hair is smooth anddoes not have "body on the back of the head on top," the top of theforehead (assuming no bangs) seems to be about one inch from the topof the head (top of the highest hair), whereas women whose hair has"body on the back of the head on top" had the top of their foreheadappear approximately 2 or even 3 inches below the top of the highesthair. What does this mean? It means that although the "high hair"might make the woman seem a bit taller in stature, it moves (drags)down the position of her face relative to her entire body. In otherwords, to my eye, the woman who has achieved "body on the back of thehead on top" has succeeded in finding a hairstyle which has a tendencyto "drag the face down," relative to the *perceived* top of her headand the position of the face in relation to the body as a whole. Sothe notion that long, smooth hair "drags the face down" seems to meto be misapplied to long hair; however, it does seem to apply toshort hairstyles which have "body on the back of the head on top."I hope this made sense.Take care,Dave

Hi JerkyFlea,> Really? Whe I spoke of the forum, I was referring to> the entire series of boards. The pro-long hair angle I> spoke of is from the posts that usually follow any> poster (usually female) who places a message that they> have long hair, but are thinking of cutting it for one> reason or another. The majority of the posts following> will indicate she should think long and hard about> this decision because she'll probably regret cutting> it if she decides to do it.> In fact there is a thread on Hair Talk like this right> now right here . Several folks told the mom to> carefully weigh the decision, because she may regret> it, as they did, when she cuts it. Her response, I> think, demonstrates that even a newbie recognizes the> slant of the boards:> "To be really honest, I've read some of the> posts on here and I know some of you think a haircut> is a big deal, but it wasn't that big of a deal to> me."I read the subject thread from "Alice" and she said "I've always liked my hairlong, but I'm just getting this desire to cut it short so I don't have to dealwith it." In her message I read two things: (1) that she likes long hair,(2) she's thinking of cutting it short SO THAT it requires less effort. Thehelpful respondents seemed (to me) to be trying to let Alice know that cuttingher hair short was not necessary to adequately address her hair concerns (whatwith being a new mother). I think the response of the other mothers indicatesthat the notion that "a new mother ought to cut her hair short" (otherwise knownas "getting the 'mommy cut'") is based more on oxymoronic "conventional wisdom"than in the reality of the actual suitability of a given hair length.And I'm not sure in what sense you perceive a "pro-long hair angle," becausewhen Alice continued her story and confessed that she succumbed to the persuasionof her friends, not one person posted a response of any kind. How do you infera "pro-long hair angle" in the vacuum of zero responses?> "I love my hair long and don't plan to cut. Ever.> Future events are irrelevant. I would sooner abandon> my family and religious faith before letting scissors> near my hair. Those that think that they may possibly> cut their hair based on changing circumstances are> irresponsible and immature, with no firm system of> beliefs or convictions."> Who would say such a thing? Well, Dawn, that would be> you in multiple posts. And just in case you accuse me> of paraphrasingThis is puzzling because you just DID paraphrase Dawn -- andterribly inaccurately, at that.> Not doubting your convictions, but just because Jena> thinks change is OK and has decided to not let her> hair become the defining characteristic of her> personality and life does not make her "wishy> washy".Jena described an episode in which she cut her long hair short, whichseemed to me to have been the complete antithesis of a display ofstablility (feel free to consult with Webster for the definition of"stable"). And in part, we are what we do.> If someone says they don't> like your hair and you should cut it, to be fair, you> have to respect their opinion just as much as those> who love your hair as it is.The respect I give an opinion expressed to me depends on several factors,including but not limited to (a) did I specifically solicit an opinionfrom the other person? (b) on what basis do I know this person? (c) towhat extent do I value this person's opinion?If a person were to so crudely come up to me and say "you should cutyour hair" (and some people have!) then on what basis do they presumeto know that my present choice is inferior to another? Determinationof superiority/inferiority in this matter is purely subjective -- yetthose who dissent with my choice FOR MY OWN HAIR demonstrate theirarrogance.> I know exactly what you are talking about. You just> need to admit that this isn't about hair. It's about> freedom of choice. You're free to leave you hair long.> Jena's free to cut hers. And, for better or worse,> people are free to give their opinion on both. If that> isn't what this board is aboutI sense that you still don't understand the reason behind the uproarin recent weeks. Lurker/Zorak is more than welcome to express hisopinion that "change is good" and/or whatever. The objection was firstwith his attitude that "people who don't change are boring" (an issuenot at all dealing with hair), but, more significantly, with hispresumption that "people *should* change." Neither of these issueshave anything to do with hair but have everything to do with his ratherjudgmental, and then arrogant, attitude.and it was intended as> a long hair support group, then I probably shouldn't> have wandered by in the first place.Perhaps it seems this way to you because you never before had so muchawareness or appreciation for the hassles (from other people) that thosewho choose long hair are forced to endure?But whatever it is that draws you, you do return for additional peeks :-)Dawn said: "Well, I don't know if you've ever actually had longhair, and if not, I'm not entirely convinced that you can trulyunderstand, but lets just move on."Your reply:> Nope, don't have long hair. Don't know anyone> personally with the Crystal Gayle length tresses that> you and others on this board sport. However, Mrs. Flea> has hair 3/4 of the way down her back and is probably> going to grow it to her waist and I know/have known> many women with long hair up to waist length. So, I'm> not completely oblivious to your situation, which I've> explained in excrutiating detail several times now and> have no desire to explain again.I think Diane (in one of her responses to you) said it best. If youhaven't been there, you really can't relate. I know from my ownexperience how true this is.Dawn said: "And again, I just have to point out that its not along vs short thing, the adversarial stance only ever comes fromthe "short" side you'll notice, so your entire take on the subjectis slanted already and you're not really hearing what people aresaying. If you were, maybe it wouldn't seem so boring."Your reply:> Oh, I'm hearing folks and I'm admittedly somewhat> slanted, though I see both sides. As I've said> multiple times before, I believe that not every> hairstyle looks good on every person. If I met you in> person Dawn, I may very well think you had the most> beautiful hair known to man. That doesn't necessarily> mean, however, that the hairstyle is flattering to> you. A subtle, yet important difference.I understand exactly the differentiation you describe. And it refutesthe conventional wisdom that says that a hairstyle should be chosenaprimarily or only to "flatter the face" ignores the fact that the faceand the hairstyle exist as components of the person as a whole.> Oh, and why do I now find this boring and repetitive?> Because I could write your response to this post> before you even write it. :)You couldn't resist another neat little compartmentalization, huh?Dave

Fascinating. I post a response to Dawn a few threads down and Dave responds but Dawn doesn't. And now in my discussion with Dave, Dawn decides to respond. But that's neither here nor there. Anyway, the reason I'm even responding to this is because being the logical person I am, I have a problem with folks that distort the fact to their own agenda. What am I talking about? Well, I'll get to that, but first...> Ahhhh, come on now, don't be a baby. I've read your> column and whatever you may be, one thing you're not> is timid.A baby? Gosh, but that hurts. An no, I'm not timid, just withdrawing from a discussion that, at least in my opinion, has gotten frustratingly repetitive, with extreme members of both sides refusing (except in very rare instances) to give any ground.> The same issues get discussed all the time> because the essential point is overlooked each and> every time, that being that there is no long vs short> agenda, no "pro" anything slant, ...Really? Whe I spoke of the forum, I was referring to the entire series of boards. The pro-long hair angle I spoke of is from the posts that usually follow any poster (usually female) who places a message that they have long hair, but are thinking of cutting it for one reason or another. The majority of the posts following will indicate she should think long and hard about this decision because she'll probably regret cutting it if she decides to do it.In fact there is a thread on Hair Talk like this right now right here. Several folks told the mom to carefully weigh the decision, because she may regret it, as they did, when she cuts it. Her response, I think, demonstrates that even a newbie recognizes the slant of the boards:"To be really honest, I've read some of the posts on here and I know some of you think a haircut is a big deal, but it wasn't that big of a deal to me."> ...what there> is, is people attempting to illustrate that it is> possible to hold a point of view without alternately> disparaging and demeaning the other viewpoint and> depicting its proponents as mentally deficient.> As I said, I don't think its pro anything but respect> for others, whatever their choices.Now, Dawn, before one makes such a sweeping statement one should remember what she has written. From your response to Jena on getting her extensions in the "insecurity" thread below:"...if you want to grow up as a person and perhaps understand that one can indeed, with time, possess the outer countenance that adequately portrays the inner self, you should suck it up and accept what you've done and let your hair grow out in its own good time. Hair extensions are a cheaters way out and will teach you nothing about patience and fortitude. If you really want to be a longhair, you have to pay the price, that being cultivating inner strength until the outside catches up to the inside and the facade matches the heart. There really is no other way." "Suck it up"? "Cheater's way out"? "Pay the price"? My, but doesn't that seem understanding and respectful of the choices of others. I guess poor Jena needs to mail her long hair membership card back in before it is forcebly taken from her.> Ok, you're not really serious here are you? Because in> the posts that started this little episode, there were> no maybes, or caveats about change not being for> everyone, or any other concessions to polite> discourse, there was only condescencion and not so> subtle condemnation and some poor innocent was not> "mercilessly attacked" for no good reason,> and it was not imagined that those of a long haired> persuasion were impinged upon. Now, you're an> intelligent guy, are you telling me you can't see the> difference between this:........> "You know, I love to change my hair, cut it, grow> it out, style it, I enjoy the variety and spice it> adds to my life, its kind of exciting and fun and I> love it when my wife goes in for a really dramatic new> do, anyone agree?"> and this:.......> " I love changing my hair and I enjoyed when my> wife cut hers really short for a dramatic new look> plus I think people who keep the same hair for too> long should get a life and mix it up, the change will> do them good, they have an insecurity complex and are> just afraid to give in and admit that they'll be> forced to change someday whether they like it or> not."> Surely you can see how one would engender nothing but> pleasant and supportive comments from like minded> individuals while the other might tend to piss some> people off?Of course I could. However, I can equally see the following raising the dander of those who think change is O.K.:"I love my hair long and don't plan to cut. Ever. Future events are irrelevant. I would sooner abandon my family and religious faith before letting scissors near my hair. Those that think that they may possibly cut their hair based on changing circumstances are irresponsible and immature, with no firm system of beliefs or convictions."Who would say such a thing? Well, Dawn, that would be you in multiple posts. And just in case you accuse me of paraphrasing or generalizing, let me quote you from the same thread as before when you responded to Jena who said:> Your statement right here is where people get the> "insecurity" idea. Would a person who is> totally secure in himself not say, "I love my> long hair and have no desire to cut it now. I don't> see my opinion changing in the near future, but who> knows? Maybe one day I will, but if I change, I change> because I want to do so, not from any outside> presure."To me, the wishy washy, maybe I will, maybe I won't, who knows what I might do statements you profer as preferrable to a staunt, confident NEVER, are the very essence of insecurity, not the other way around. The definition of insecure is "not confident, filled with anxieties, not firm or dependable, unreliable" so how can someone who has held firm to a goal, a passion, an ideal for more than two decades ever be considered insecure? You're confused and mistaken about the depth of character it takes to sustain such reliable, dependable convictions, I think.Not doubting your convictions, but just because Jena thinks change is OK and has decided to not let her hair become the defining characteristic of her personality and life does not make her "wishy washy".And by the way, would you feel less confident and be filled with anxiety if you cut your hair? Gotta be careful when you pull out those Webster's definitions to prove your point.> This, and only this, is what the whole discussion was> about. Its about respect. The kind that some people> give as a matter of course, and the kind that others> can't seem to give up to save themselves.Very true. I respect your choice, as well as Dave's and others. You, however, seem to have trouble respecting Jena's or mine. If someone says they don't like your hair and you should cut it, to be fair, you have to respect their opinion just as much as those who love your hair as it is.But you can't do that can you? At least not according to the evidence provided by you posts. Those questioning your choice of keeping your hair long and insisting you'll never cut it are treated to a verbal assault taking the stance of relating a haircut to family abandonment and agnosticism. I know that you indicated you used those examples because they demonstrate other things in your life that won't change, but be aware of how extreme using such examples appeares. Before you accuse one side of blind inflexibility, make sure you evaluate your own argument.> Now, if you want to run away rather than try and> understand this premise, ok, that's your perogative,> but don't you think it might be more productive to let> go of those preconceived notions about long vs short> and see what we're really talking about?I know exactly what you are talking about. You just need to admit that this isn't about hair. It's about freedom of choice. You're free to leave you hair long. Jena's free to cut hers. And, for better or worse, people are free to give their opinion on both. If that isn't what this board is about and it was intended as a long hair support group, then I probably shouldn't have wandered by in the first place.Oh, and there is a difference between running away and knowing when it is to time to gracefully extricate myself from a situation.> Well, I don't know if you've ever actually had long> hair, and if not, I'm not entirely convinced that you> can truly understand, but lets just move on.Nope, don't have long hair. Don't know anyone personally with the Crystal Gayle length tresses that you and others on this board sport. However, Mrs. Flea has hair 3/4 of the way down her back and is probably going to grow it to her waist and I know/have known many women with long hair up to waist length. So, I'm not completely oblivious to your situation, which I've explained in excrutiating detail several times now and have no desire to explain again.Which is part of the reason that I'm bailing out on this discussion.> And again, I just have to point out that its not a> long vs short thing, the adversarial stance only ever> comes from the "short" side you'll notice,> so your entire take on the subject is slanted already> and you're not really hearing what people are saying.> If you were, maybe it wouldn't seem so boring.Oh, I'm hearing folks and I'm admittedly somewhat slanted, though I see both sides. As I've said multiple times before, I believe that not every hairstyle looks good on every person. If I met you in person Dawn, I may very well think you had the most beautiful hair known to man. That doesn't necessarily mean, however, that the hairstyle is flattering to you. A subtle, yet important difference.Oh, and why do I now find this boring and repetitive? Because I could write your response to this post before you even write it. :)Going back to work on the next opinionated column,JerkyFleaRelated Link:JerkyFlea's Celebrity Hair Spray

I'll be the first to admit that my long hair is a "security blanket" for me. I won't try to deny it! I've even told my hairstylists (in the past) the same thing. I feel I look terrible when I have my hair pulled back (or up), despite opposite protests of others. That's just me, that's all.

Well....I think everybody feels more secure in the hairstyle that she perceives looks best on her. I have nightmares about getting my hair cut off, not because short hair is bad in and of itself, but because I know I look awful in it, I hate looking awful, and the process of growing it back is agony. When my hair is short I feel unfeminine, unattractive, and exposed.So, yes, you could say that my longer hair makes me feel secure, the same way that wearing the perfect outfit for a particular occasion does. But isn't this healthy and normal? I mean, who goes to her hairdresser and says, "Find the LEAST flattering look you can for my face shape. I want to explore my reactions to public humiliation. I want men to ignore me, and I want to cringe every time I look in the mirror."Do I directly associate long hair with beauty? No. I know women prettier than I am with much shorter hair. I also know a lot of women with long hair who don't look good at all.Some women won't be seen without their make-up. Some would never be caught dead in sweatpants. I'll go to the supermarket with a naked face and paint-stained sweats, but I won't cut my hair above the shoulders. Get it?Ally ;)

Here is my thought on the security/insecurity issue that I have been reading about. Based on the assumption that someone may have long hair due to insecurity, which is something I have been reading, well, I have to say, "So what." There are certainly far worse things that can happen, and I know that everyone had insecurities of some kind, so if someone's insecurity is being manifested in them growing long hair, is it hurting anyone??I also do not believe that it is a given that if somebody cuts their hair and then decides to grow it back, that it is a sign of security. Maybe from my perspective, that is a sign of insecurity, but even if that is true, again, so what. I guess my point is that everyone has to do what makes them feel happy, and sometimes even comfortable, in this rather difficult world that we live in. Everyone has insecurities they have to cope with. Even if having long hair really is a sign of insecurity, well, if that's how that person has chosen to cope with this entity we call life, so be it.Regards,Clare

JerkyFlea,I will admit that perhaps I was a bit overly sensitive when I repliedyesterday. It sometimes takes me a while to "warm up" to some people,especially if we've gotten off to a "rough start." In such cases, Itry to proceed slowly and with caution (and hope for the same inreturn). Perhaps at some time in the future I might have betterappreciated your joking around.When I said "Why should anybody in the world cast dispersion on thatpreference and that choice, when having long hair causes absolutely noharm to anybody?" it was a general lament and not directed at you.> Nor does piercing your tongue, but people will comment on that too.> In a perfect world, everyone accepts everyone as they are. This isn't> it. However, it never helps things to go out of your way to look for> slights.I agree that you have not offered detrimental comments to anybody onthe board regarding their hair choices.> Thought from the last couple of exchanges we had, you recognized that> we weren't that far apart on our opinions on most parts of this> discussion, yet you felt the need to look for an insult,I didn't feel a need to look for an insult, I just perceived that Iwas being insulted. I understand it wasn't your intent to be seen thatway but that's how I felt based on what you said. And as I said a fewparagraphs above, I have to know somebody very well before I readilyaccept verbal slaps in good fun.> That's the slant of the board anyway. Just don't be so shocked when> the few folks here that think there is more than one hairstyle don't> always understand.That's fine. If somebody doesn't understand something they are alwayswelcome to ask. And I know that there are many hairstyles. Not allsubject threads have been about long hair. Some have been about shorthair, too. I have absolutely no problem with that, or any diversityof opinion on the subject of hair being discussed on this board.> I didn't understand why anyone who said maybe changing your hairstyle> periodically, while not for everyone, was a natural thing to do, was mercilessly> attacked as an insensitive swine intent on troding upon the personal freedoms> of long haired folks.The reaction was based on the approach of a particular name-morphingindividual whose general approach to the topic was extraordinarilyhostile, rude, and insulting. Had somebody broached the subject ina very different way, we would probably have seen a much differentseries of responses.> Obviously, from my column, I agree with the concept that not every> style, be it long or short, looks good on every person and, thus,> thought I'd toss my two cents in on that side of the debate. Not that> I don't understand and appreciate the long hair side, I just agree> more with the other.So you appreciate short hair more than long, that's okay. See? Noflame.> So, since we DO seem to keep debating the same aspects of this> subjectIt depends in part on how the subject is broached, whatever subjectit is.Peace.Dave

really most of you with super long hair are, Dave was so closeminded that he didn't see how long hair really does drag faces down sometimes. i used to have hair to my waist and I was also 80 pounds overweight, the hair was the only thing I could contorl in my life and i didn't want to give it up, but i lost 70 pounds and i cut my hair to just below my shoulders and it's perfect!!!!! the only people who can say they arent' using long hair as security are the ones who cut it short bu t then let it grow back again, when we're in hte middle of the situation, we can't see that clearly until we're out of it. just my $0.02, and now I'm back to lurking mode.

Dave,You got me. I give. Send in the punting team. Why? Well...> Yaaaaaaawwwwwwn... what? Oh.> sniff sniff... do I smell bait here?> And so if I respond in any way then will you interpret> it as "dispute?"> Seems as though you would put words into my mouth and> then bind it shut.> No thank you for that bargain, Mr. JerkyFlea.Was doing nothing of the sort. In fact given what you had posted below when I said virtually the same thing implied to me that you saw my point. Thus, I was saying that you didn't really dispute it before, but with my luck you'd probably dispute it here. Misinterpreted joke #1.> Why should anybody in the> world cast> dispersion on that preference and that choice, when> having long hair> causes absolutely no harm to anybody?Nor does piercing your tongue, but people will comment on that too. In a perfect world, everyone accepts everyone as they are. This isn't it. However, it never helps things to go out of your way to look for slights. Read back through my posts - have I ever offered one detrimental comment against your or anyone else's choice for long hair?> I just don't see the connection between who I am, and> the term you chose to> apply to me -- even if it was intended by you to be> taken in a joking manner.> Oh yes, I very much have a sense of humor -- but I> also have a sense for> when -- and how -- to apply it.Completely innocent comment, Dave. Thought from the last couple of exchanges we had, you recognized that we weren't that far apart on our opinions on most parts of this discussion, yet you felt the need to look for an insult, though I went out of my way to show that it wasn't one. This would be misinterpreted joke #2.> Well, welcome to a discussion forum where, among other> things, those> who have been criticized have the opportunity to air> and share their> experiences.Golly, a sarcastic remark. I guess I should be offended since I've just been blatantly patronized, but instead it just makes me tired. Nothing more exhausting than navigating a PC minefield for an extended period of time, especially when folks keep dropping new ones in front of you just when you thought you made it out.> Might you think it a safe bet that other> newcomers (with> long hair) to Hair Politics might also be able to> share the same or> similar types of experiences as have been expressed> thus far?More power to 'em and let the sharing begin. That's the slant of the board anyway. Just don't be so shocked when the few folks here that think there is more than one hairstyle don't always understand.Before I go, one more thing. The reason I started contributing in this particular forum to begin with was because though I knew the board had a pro-long hair slant, I didn't understand why anyone who said maybe changing your hairstyle periodically, while not for everyone, was a natural thing to do, was mercilessly attacked as an insensitive swine intent on troding upon the personal freedoms of long haired folks. Obviously, from my column, I agree with the concept that not every style, be it long or short, looks good on every person and, thus, thought I'd toss my two cents in on that side of the debate. Not that I don't understand and appreciate the long hair side, I just agree more with the other.So, since we DO seem to keep debating the same aspects of this subject, I think I'll drop out of it for a while. Not playing martyr, just tired of posting similar things many times and having them misintrepreted in new and different ways each time.I need to work on my next opinionated column, anyway. :)As usual,JerkyFleaRelated Link:JerkyFlea's Celebrity Hair Spray

> Hi!> First, I just wanted to say, in response to JF, that I> don't see Dave as defensive in any way. I think Dave> is an extremely passionate, sensitive, intelligent and> caring individual. He's no long hair fanatic! I could> never see Dave telling me to keep my hair at all costs> if I was considering cutting it off. As such, I would> readily ask him such a question if the issue ever> arose.> JF readily admits that long-haired men encounter many> more negative responses than positive ones. I believe> that Dave's personal experiences are reflected in his> posts on various issues. When I first came to Hair> Boutique, I had never seen a man with hair as long and> profuse as Dave's. I was definitely blown away:)> Dave's hair is not long. It is ultra-long. I have seen> the abuse and comments many men take just for having> hair below the collar and at shoulder-length. One of> the usual comments made, which I have heard over and> over, is that it is somehow feminine for a man to have> longer hair. Personally, I have always felt that if at> least part of a woman's fertility is viewed as being> keyed to her hair, part of a man's virility is tied to> the same:) Anyway, I think, as a part of having> ultra-long hair, a man should be able to articulate> positions well which I think Dave does. It's nice to> hear what a man thinks about longer hair and ancillary> issues in relation to his own life.> Bye for now,> Jade21Thank you, Jade, for your extraordinarily kind words. I am deeply touched, and it sounds as if you see me the way I see myself -- or at least the way I try to be. Of course, that's part of being sensitive -- being aware of how one's own self is being perceived by others.I very definitely see a strong connection between the health and length of a woman's hair, and her virility. It's a sign of health, not only physical, but emotional as well.Take care,Dave