Banishing Bad Hair Days since 1997!™
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Political involvement
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Political involvement

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
tina m View Drop Down
Banned
Banned


Joined: May 21 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 1037
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tina m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Political involvement
    Posted: July 06 2003 at 7:41pm
All third parties are doing is getting creeps elected.

Without Ross Perot's votes in 1996, Bob Dole, -(an honorable and mature statesman)- would have beaten Clinton the liar.

Without Ralph Nader's votes in 2000, Al Gore-(a boring guy and not a great politician but honorable and responsible)- would have beaten George W., the country club brat whose policies are now driving the country deep into debt for the next couple of generations.

I'm not really a political person but I do have common sense.

Since the last time a third party got elected to President was, I believe Lincoln in 1861, and it will probably be another 150 years before another one gets elected, why don't Americans do this; nominate decent, responsible people for the Republicans and Democrats, and then elect somebody decent and responsible for a change.

Third party canidates? Good luck, you will need it!
tina
Back to Top
HeadBoy View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: June 20 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HeadBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2003 at 12:54pm
Hi all,

Jennifer, third parties are making a solid impact.
Bush was elected because of third party candidates,
Clinton was elected because of third party candidate Ross Perot. There are plenty of times when third party folks get elected in local races. On the most visible scale, I point to Jesse Ventura getting elected governor of Minnesota...

By the way, Abe Lincoln was a third party candidate elected president.

Maybe Harry Browne is not the best presidential candidate, but he is raising awareness for Libertarianism. Here in Missouri, the Libertarian party is small, but in California -- where I lived my entire life until last year -- the party makes an impact on the state.

By all means, we must be true to our hearts and vote for who or what we think is best on each issue in each election. I voted for Harry Browne because I felt he was the best of the five candidates on the ballot (there are always more than two people running for president, though the big media only plays lip service at best to thatt fact).

Peace to all
Back to Top
KathyAnn View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: May 12 2003
Location: Great state of Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KathyAnn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2003 at 9:04pm
I want to thank everyone for their input and responses!

Sorry double post!

Thanks again!

Back to Top
KathyAnn View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: May 12 2003
Location: Great state of Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 191
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KathyAnn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 05 2003 at 9:04pm
I want to thank everyone for their input and responses!

Back to Top
SuperGrover View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: March 17 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperGrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2003 at 10:59am
Oh Jennifer, I wouldn't worry yet. Being a Libertarian isn't exactly what I call trendy. But I'm with you on the hair.

The NYC Libertarians are kind of embarrassing. They were a big media spectacle a few months back when they were handing out toy guns to kids in front of a public school in Harlem and they pissed the kids' parents off royal and started a big argument in front of the school. (The city had been considering outlawing all toy guns because some kids had been shot by the police recently. They were holding toy guns that the police thought were real. NYC is crazy authoritarian like that. They have laws for EVERYTHING.)
Now, I agree with the Libertarians' point, but I don't think that was the way to go about it. They totally set themselves up to look like idiots on the nightly news. And the guy who was leading it was clearly a moron. Who put that guy in a position of leadership?

That's the party's main problem. We need good, charismatic leaders that appeal to all Americans, not just those of us already in the party. I voted for Harry Browne, but I really was voting for the party. Harry Browne just is not good presidential material. We need a better candidiate for 2004. I'm sure they're working on it.

The problem is the same as always. Anyone you would really want to be president is smart enough to know he doesn't want the job.
"Hair is a part of you. It is not a part of me, because I am a frog." - Kermit the Frog on Sesame Street1b/N/ii ~ ??"/27"/32"
Back to Top
Jennifer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: November 30 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 748
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2003 at 8:35am
Quote he government that governs best governs least.

That's my opinion, Thomas Jefferson's actually, what's everyone elses?


I abhor following trends. If long hair for all women ever became the norm, I'd almost be tempted to cut my hair!

However, I must follow my heart. I want as much freedom in my life as possible (while protecting children and providing justice to all and punishing criminals).

Thus, I too, am a libertarian. What makes me sad, however, is that although the party is growing, there just doesn't seem to be quite enough to make a third party viable on voting ballets to really give the other two parties a run for their money.

One day soon, I hope!
Back to Top
SuperGrover View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: March 17 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperGrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by Rod Rod wrote:

As an educated person who has worked on the business side of media, I can tell you that the issue isn't as simple as you make it out to be. It benefits a lot more people than a few CEOs and media conglomerates. Many of the perceived drawbacks consumers sight aren't going to materialize. I don't like it for business reasons, not consumer reasons.


Oh that's true. There are many reasons not to like it.
They say the rates will drop and the quality of technology will increase. Bull! They've deregulated several times before and we've yet to see any benefit.

Congratulations, Girl Tia! I know it can't be easy. But as long as your happy in the end, that's what matters.
"Hair is a part of you. It is not a part of me, because I am a frog." - Kermit the Frog on Sesame Street1b/N/ii ~ ??"/27"/32"
Back to Top
tina m View Drop Down
Banned
Banned


Joined: May 21 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 1037
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tina m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 8:34pm
Hello Girl Tia.

Nice to have you on the board.

Best wishes on your transition. Your hair must be beautiful. Asians have such lovely hair!
tina
Back to Top
Girl Tia View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: October 31 2003
Location: S.F. Bay area, California
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Girl Tia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 7:08pm
Thank you Kathy Ann for bringing up this topic.
I have read on your posts that you are a lebian woman in a relationship with another woman here, a bi-sexual woman Tina. Hi to you both.

I am a gay male in the process of becoming a woman. I wear my hair long mid-back, jet black hair. I dress as a female. Have already had my breasts done.
I am also Asian(Chinese-American).
As a sexual and ethnic minority I do feel it is important to vote.
Back to Top
HeadBoy View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: June 20 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HeadBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 4:50pm
Posted twice. I hate when that happens.

Sorry everybody.
Peace to all
Back to Top
HeadBoy View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: June 20 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HeadBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 4:48pm
Howdy SuperGrover!
It is cool to see my fellow Libertarian proud to call themselves as such. We're a small but growing bunch.
The fastest growing party in America.

The government that governs best governs least.

That's my opinion, Thomas Jefferson's actually, what's everyone elses?
Peace to all
Back to Top
HeadBoy View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: June 20 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HeadBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 4:48pm
Howdy SuperGrover!
It is cool to see my fellow Libertarian proud to call themselves as such. We're a small but growing bunch.
The fastest growing party in America.

The government that governs best governs least.

That's my opinion, Thomas Jefferson's actually, what's everyone elses?
Peace to all
Back to Top
Rod View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: April 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 690
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 1:51pm
As an educated person who has worked on the business side of media, I can tell you that the issue isn't as simple as you make it out to be. It benefits a lot more people than a few CEOs and media conglomerates. Many of the perceived drawbacks consumers sight aren't going to materialize. I don't like it for business reasons, not consumer reasons.

Jennifer, a republic is basically a representative democracy.
Back to Top
SuperGrover View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: March 17 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 664
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperGrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 1:21pm
Perhaps because our representatives often make decisions that benefit the lobbyists that stuff their pockets and not on behalf of what's best for the public?

A quick and easy example is that stupid media deregulation that passed a few weeks ago. Any person educated on the ways of the media will tell you that's NOT a good thing for anyone but the few CEOs of the few media conglomerates.

And HeadBoy! I just wanted to shout out I'm a Libertarian, too!
The FCC is one of the only areas where I favor governmental control.
"Hair is a part of you. It is not a part of me, because I am a frog." - Kermit the Frog on Sesame Street1b/N/ii ~ ??"/27"/32"
Back to Top
Jennifer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: November 30 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 748
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 10:55am
Quote e are both a Republic and a democracy.


I think the problem is that the word "democracy" entails different varieties. The US is obviously not a direct democracy, yet I see no reason why we can't be called a representative democracy.
Back to Top
tina m View Drop Down
Banned
Banned


Joined: May 21 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 1037
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tina m Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 10:45am
We are both a Republic and a democracy.



All Kathy was saying is that everyday people should get involved in politics, so that politics won't be run entirely by the rich and wealthy special interests.

Noboby has to vote. I sometimes don't.
Of course we have the right to be apathetic and non-involved.
But if we don't get involved then we have no influence obviously.
tina
Back to Top
Jennifer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: November 30 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 748
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 8:22am
Can anyone answer my questions? Why are we not a Representative Democracy?
Back to Top
HeadBoy View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: June 20 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 337
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HeadBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 03 2003 at 7:40am
Like the Pledge of Allegiance says ...
"And to the Republic for which it stands."

We are a Republic.

Yes, the differences are subtle, but vital.
Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Alexander Hamilton and the rest of our founding fathers were very smart to set up America as they did.

We're free to speak our minds, believe in God or choose not to do so, and much more. We do get the people in office we vote for. I think our process is the best there is, though if we don't vote we get elected officials who are not necessarily the best example of who we are collectively. Good process, bad results.

I won't insult Bush, even though I didn't vote for him, he did get more than 271 Electoral College votes. So he won. The process of a Republic works. We just need to get more people involved.
Peace to all
Back to Top
Jennifer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: November 30 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 748
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2003 at 6:27pm
You know what? This stuff is confusing. Here's something I found on the web:

The United States is a Republic which follows the ideals of a Representative Democracy. Our Electoral College is an example of voting via a Representative Democracy.

http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure1.htm

So, are we not a Representative Democracy? I do understand that under a direct democracy, there are no "middlemen" and each person votes directly for the decision. And, for obvious reasons, our country is far too large for that. But, why can't we be called a Representative Democracy?
Back to Top
Jennifer View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: November 30 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 748
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2003 at 5:45pm
I think we should clarify the terms republic and democracy.

A democracy is a government in which the people hold the ruling power either directly or through elected representatives (what we do at the local and state levels -- we vote directly for the governor and representatives).

A republic is a nation in which the supreme power rests in all the citizens entitled to vote (the electorate) and is exercised by representatives elected, directly or indirectly, by them and responsible to them.

So, is a democracy where people vote on each and every issue? The difference between the two seems subtle.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down