Today Show Bride to Be

DaveDecker wrote: Hal and JF... my take on the "decision" is that if she had wanted to cut her hair she would have brought up the issue.  But as you said JF, "The stylist suggested she may want to cut it just a bit to make it easier to do some of the styles, but that's what you'd expect them to do."  What this tells me is that she was easy to persuade.  And possibly felt some pressure (even if very gentle, like a virtual nudge) to approve the stylist's suggestion. I'd bet $ that if the stylist hadn't said a word about cutting her hair, she would have been perfectly happy. So the depth of her conviction to keep what she had wasn't strong.  It doesn't mean she didn't acquiesce.  And please tell me why you hold so dearly the notion that I believe these events are the results of brain-washing or a conspiracy.

Hey Dave,

I was said rather tongue-in-cheek, but the impetus of the statement is the predictable response that anytime any long haired woman gets her hair cut on any show there is never the admission of even the remote possibility that she may have actually wanted to do it.  It's always because they were pressured or coerced or guilted into it.

Basically, the fact I'm wearing a shirt that I've been wearing for a while, doesn't necessarily mean I'm that attached to it or wouldn't prefer a new shirt if I was given the chance for one.  I just may not have had the reason or opportunity to get a new one yet.

And Dave, you know I'm not trying to pick a fight, right?  Not my style.

And Bob S., don't drag the LoL argument into this.  There's never going to be an agreement on that on the board so I'd humbly suggest we make it an off-limits topic.  Fair enough?

As usual,

JF

Flea, buddy, not only did the stylist suggest the haircut, he suggested the donation to LOL. In this case it's gotta be open for discussion.

For those that haven't seen it, I think this is the video of the Today Show segment. I'm not sure how much they show because it won't currently work on my computer.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?f=00&g=91de782d-0c7c-491 a-a0f7-8d7e829bc25b&t=m5&p=Source_Today%20Show

Kramer wrote: Flea, buddy, not only did the stylist suggest the haircut, he suggested the donation to LOL. In this case it's gotta be open for discussion.

KramerGord, my man, let's skip ahead a bit and this is an honest question:  She cuts 10.5 inches of hair.  She has it in a braid.  Both are done deals.  What should she do with it?  Throw it away?  Auction it on eBay?  Donate it to LoL?  Donate it to WigsForKids?  Hang it from her rear view mirror?  What?

As for pressure to cut/donate at all, I'm sure the conversation went something like, "If we take a 6-8 inches off, the styles would work better.  But if you cut 10 inches, you could donate it to Locks of Love".  Which is, as I said before, a suggestion by the stylist.  Not born of hatred of long hair or a devious plan to allow her to start chopping away, but a suggestion.  One that could be ignored.

However, my point to Dave, and to you is that not every woman with super long hair is intimately attached to every inch of it, so a) cutting wasn't that big of a deal to her and b) cutting a little more wasn't that big of a deal to her.  My frustration in these conversations is that the folks that prefer long hair on the board seem to project their intense love of and need to protect every inch of all the long flowing locks they see onto anyone with long hair.  Whether that person has that deep attachment or not. 

What further baffles me is some of the reactions even within the long hair community itself.  We've all see the posts where someone will lament that they wanted 1 inch cut off and ended up losing 4 instead.  Amongst the offerings of sympathy and support, there is always the one poster that calls for the stylist to be drawn and quartered.  And not in jest either.  I'm not belittling the loss of six months worth of growth, but the violence and deep hatred those type of posts reveal bothers me.

And don't think I'm picking on that group especially, as I give crap to everyone and get equally tired of reading the posts by folks whose opinion I can predict before they type a word.  Not saying that should dissuade anyone from posting; just pointing out (as I have before) that the most enjoyable threads to me are the ones where someone offers some insight or opinion that I may not have expected.

Bailing out of this thread...except to respond to Dave if he responds to me,

JF

Edited by JerkyFlea

Notice that almost every single post here was perfectly predictable from Kramer to DD to BOB, everyone's with the notable exception of Jerky Flea's. Thank you Flea for keeping this a sane place for open minded people looking for common ground to visit once in a while. As for the LOL comments your right about that too, it's bordered on liable as of late and if I were the sites owner that would be enough for me to make it a closed topic.


Edited by Carmichael

Hi Carmichael,

Thank you for concluding that I'm both insane and closed-minded.  I wouldn't want to disappoint you.  I should also apologize for being predictable.  Thank goodness that JF provides you with at least some incentive to continue reading the board.

Hi JF,

Interesting shirt analogy.  On one level, it makes sense.  On another, it doesn't.  So what if the deal to try on this new shirt was that you had to give up the old shirt, and continue wearing the new shirt every day (presumably laundered daily ), but after a day or a week or whatever you decided that you really didn't like this shirt, that you preferred the previous shirt.  But wait, the deal was that you couldn't have that shirt back (let's say, for 2 years).  Now how do you feel about the deal?  Like it was a rather cr@ppy deal.

You wear your hair a certain way.  I might guess that you like to keep it about the same length year after year (not that there's anything wrong with that.  The same goes for those who have any particular length of hair, including long).  So to maintain that length, you make a mental note (or don't, since it's almost instinctive) to get a trim of your short hairstyle every 6 weeks.  So also might a woman whose hair is waist-length.  'Cause she wants to keep it at that length.

My point is that people can decide well enough on their own what length they want their hair to be.  People don't need suggestions.  I'm not saying they don't happen; rather, that they don't need to be honored.

BTW JF, I like your style of "arguing" better than that of many people, Hal.

Anyone who agrees to appear on this type of show, is usually more than ready to sacrifice anything for their 15 minutes of fame. Wouldn't be very good TV if the professionals just said, "think you look great, and there's no need to change a thing!"

Are there any pictures of this woman before she got the haircut? The videos are not coming through for me. Thanks

DaveDecker wrote: Interesting shirt analogy.  On one level, it makes sense.  On another, it doesn't.  So what if the deal to try on this new shirt was that you had to give up the old shirt, and continue wearing the new shirt every day (presumably laundered daily ), but after a day or a week or whatever you decided that you really didn't like this shirt, that you preferred the previous shirt.  But wait, the deal was that you couldn't have that shirt back (let's say, for 2 years).  Now how do you feel about the deal?  Like it was a rather cr@ppy deal.

Yes, but that also assumes that if I didn't like the new shirt that there is no other new shirt that I would like and the only way I'll be happy is to get my old shirt back.  And it's not like I can't get it back, it will just take a while.  The question then becomes that if the only way I can ever try a new shirt is to get rid of the old one, is it worth denying myself those possibilities to retain my old comfortable shirt?  Some would say yes, some would say no, and still others would say this shirt analogy has gotten entirely out of control.

DaveDecker wrote: You wear your hair a certain way.  I might guess that you like to keep it about the same length year after year (not that there's anything wrong with that.  The same goes for those who have any particular length of hair, including long).  So to maintain that length, you make a mental note (or don't, since it's almost instinctive) to get a trim of your short hairstyle every 6 weeks.  So also might a woman whose hair is waist-length.  'Cause she wants to keep it at that length.

Actually I go every 3-4 weeks and generally because it starts to look bad.  But I get your point.

DaveDecker wrote: My point is that people can decide well enough on their own what length they want their hair to be.  People don't need suggestions.  I'm not saying they don't happen; rather, that they don't need to be honored.

And this is where we diverge.  I disagree with "people don't need suggestions" because that implies that any suggestion is an intrusion on their personal self-image and/or a violation of their rights.  If you and I were working a job where we were repairing the gearing on a conveyor belt system, I may suggest that you cut or put up your hair to keep it from potentially catching in the gears and getting ripped from your head or your head ripped from the rest of you.  Is that a suggestion you don't need?

If that's too obvious, then let's say that if we were hanging out and I mentioned that, given your features and hair texture, you'd have a cool "rock god" look going if you cut your hair to between your shoulders and mid-back and added some layering.  Just my opinion, throwing it out there, you can take it or leave it.  Doesn't make me think any more or less of you for taking or not taking my suggestion.  As you said, it's up to you to choose to actually do something based on it.

Now, if I berated you about it daily, that would be different...

DaveDecker wrote: BTW JF, I like your style of "arguing" better than that of many people, Hal.

Thanks.  And I know that Hal would be happier if we just understood that most women look better with a banged and layered flippy bob.

As usual,

JF

loveshort&blonde wrote: What if the girl had real short hair and the stylist wanted to use massive extensions.  How many of you would be "complaining" about the abusive power of the stylist?

All of the people who love short hair and hate long hair?  Or anybody who hates the idea of people wearing extensions, maybe because they "cheat" and get all that length in no time, or because they aren't installed very well?  Or maybe all of the above?

JF wrote: ... Some would say yes, some would say no, and still others would say this shirt analogy has gotten entirely out of control.

If nothing else it shows that the decision isn't necessarily easily made.

JF wrote: I disagree with "people don't need suggestions" because that implies that any suggestion is an intrusion on their personal self-image and/or a violation of their rights.

Hardly a violation of rights.  Rather, I believe that the impetus for the most meaningful changes come from within.

I believe the conveyor belt analogy is poor because of the difference in the potential impact of not following the suggestion.  Conveyor belt accidents can result in serious physical injury or death.  Hairstyle "accidents" (as visually perceived by the other person) do not result in bodily injury or death.

And regarding potential "rock god" (or whatever) suggestions, I guess you and I have fundamentally differing ideas about what we do with our thoughts and opinions.  Some people choose to accept others for who they are; others seek to mold others into their own ideal form.

So...

Carmichael wrote: If one of your buddies should up at a business function wearing a leisure suit, would you let him know, fashion wise, he had missed the boat? Would you let him look bad rather than speak up? Would be rude if you did? Would you be a true friend if you did not?

Bill Gates was once a geekazoid who wore leisure suits to important business meetings with representatives from potential suitors, including IBM... his sartorial style didn't seem to hurt him any.

Forgot to add before... And some people would see these people wearing unusual clothes and describe them as being "fashion forward."


Edited by DaveDecker

DaveDecker wrote: Hardly a violation of rights.  Rather, I believe that the impetus for the most meaningful changes come from within.

Not arguing that.  And who said we were talking life altering change?  That's part of my point.  Simply that every person with really long hair isn't immediately going to break down if they receive a suggestion to cut it or be permanently damaged if they do.  Just saying that for most folks, the hair follicles aren't tied directly to the soul.

JF