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Soooo confused

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Chebabe View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 08 2006 at 11:04pm
After hours and hours of poring over all hair color forums, articles, expert websites and etc... I shouldn't be here.  I should be RUNNING to the salon rather than bother with this stuff.  BUT... I can't help it!  Its just that I am tired of spending the big bucks at the salon.
 
I have not done anything to my hair since my last salon visit last July (3 months ago).  My hair is OK for now but the roots are 1-2 inches.  I would like to start educating myself to see if I can do this at home myself.
 
The question is where to start??  I read Claude's sticky and understand the color wheel concept very well.  I understand you cannot use color to take out color.  Its just that, I would like to see PICTURES of Before and After and see the formulas you used.  I think that is the only way you can really learn is seeing hair color and see what color does to hair.
 
Perhaps do a new sticky for Blondes, Brunettes, Reds and Black haired people.  Give info like what you were aiming to do (picture of the hair color you wanted) and showing what you hair was like before you started.  Give info such as what was your hair color before coloring/highlighting (virgin color? Highlights only? Color treated? % of gray.. etc); products you used; formulas; if what you did messed up -- what corrective action did you take?  Explain techniques you used and the result.  Etc... so that when we see before and after pictures for those who have similar hair colors and pre-existing conditions, we might hit the jackpot somewhere how to do our hair!  How about that???
 
 
 
 
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Susan W View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Susan W Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 8:22am
Well, pictures would possibly be helpful for you, but not necessarily as much as you would expect.  You'd need a lot of pictures!  The reason being that the same hair color and the same routine will do different things depending on a lot of factors:  Your starting color, whether you've dyed it before or not and to what color, the number of times you've done chemical things to it effecting its porousness, the hair strand's type (fine, medium, coarse), etc.  The same dye can come out pretty different due to all of those, and also the volume of developer you choose to use with it will make a difference. 

I see what you're saying about making a big library of all of that, it may be helpful if it were large enough, but it would require a lot of volunteers offering stories and photos to get such a large library.

If you really don't want to bother learning all of this and getting into it, maybe you are telling yourself its not for you.  Sure its WAY cheaper to do it yourself, but its also tricky.  I think you kind of have to have a love for do-it-yourself stuff like this to want to get into it.  Even having 1-2 inches of roots is going to be difficult for you to do because those are long roots and the line of demarcation is far enough away from your head to be very visible as a line if you don't get the color to match exactly.  (Its a lot easier to do roots if you do it about every 3 week, then your line is hidden better in the shadow hair makes closer to the head, and tends to blend over time). 
Making metal barettes/concord clips hair safe, long hair style how to: http://alonghair.wordpress.com
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Denise Kingsley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denise Kingsley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 9:33am
To create a reference like that would take enormous time and input. And someone would have to do it. This is a free forum. People give advice, some professionals, some who just have experience coloring at home.
 
Some salons charge big bucks, some not so much. It all depends on what big bucks means to you.
 
I offer advice, as a professional, for free. In the Salon, I make money on the clients. We all need to make a living.
 
In general, people who do their hair in the kitchen, have kitchen looking hair. They eventually get themselves into a bind that will take several visits to the salon to fix.
Sometimes it is a challenge, and I love doing the corrections, sometimes I hate it. People screw up their hair so badly that the best thing to do is to cut it off. It is sad.
 
Sometimes I have a client who lost her job and needs help, in that case, I will help her out with free or discounted color, until she gets on her feet. A lot of it is about developing a relationship between the stylist and client. You just need to find the right person, one who will not sell you coloring you do not want, and who will charge a price you feel is reasonable.
 
After all, 2 movie tickets, 2 drinks and a popcorn, can cost   as much as a root touch up in some salons!!
It is all in the priorities.
Denise Kingsley
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hannebash View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hannebash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 11:42am
the problem with you suggestion (as mentioned by others) is that everyone's hair is different, and there are so many factors that affect how color will turn out. these would include natural haircolor, texture, condition of the hair, if it's colored it would include what color your roots are, what color you have added to your hair, whether or not the color is semi, demi, or permanent,--the list goes on and on.

You CAN become an expert--attend beauty school and have extensive training to become a color specialist.  Most of us here would love to be able to do our own hair and get perfect results. And with much practice, you can acheive acceptable results at home. Unfortunately, for the most of us, we just suck it up and head over to a reputable salon and fork over the money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chebabe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 9:00pm
Hi all!
 
Thank you for your postings and your thoughts! 
 
I think it would be really great and educational for most of us to see pictures of what color does to hair and to learn how it varies with each person.  I agree it would take a huge library of pictures and for all the possible scenarios out there when encountering with hair coloring.  It is definitely another story for each person to be able to explain the science of what happened with their hair coloring experience.  But wouldn't be great if we can get a group of motivated people who would like to make this kind of contribution to create stickys for each color of the spectrum.  There is so much information being shared with all of us in this forum that often i find myself wishing I could see the before and after pictures to see what happened. 
 
In my case, today I finally figured out what my natural color is (new growth is a level 7 with a violet tone) by comparing swatches in Sally's as a reference color to start with but I found some variation to my color that just made me uncertain which one really matched my hair color.  Like for example there are 5 , 6 , 7 and 8 browns.  I can find a level 5 and a 8 swatch comparable to my natural haircolor in the sunlight so... which is which?   (The color expert in Sally's wasn't all that helpful , she was very knowledgable but its still a guessing game).  Then I start to think about my experience with hair coloring...reminding myself that when my hair is colored with a golden color, I do get brassiness.  So if I want Neutral/natural instead of ashy colors, what color blonde should I choose to counter unwanted redness if I dont exactly know what color I have and what colors can do to the color I have.  So in general, what I hope is to take the guessing out of the game and empower us with knowledge understanding what color does to our hair.  Like for example a sticky focused on brunettes with before and after pictures, it helps understand what formulating does to hair and to have an expert to an analysis for each before/after picture to explain what happened during the coloring/lifting/bleaching process.  What to do, not to do... the big NO-NOs to avoid disaster.   It would be fun to see more of what everybody does for their hair too!  I love seeing people post their pictures to show what they want, what their current colors are and what they do... and if its successful...Kind of like looking at the different styles of how to do your eye make up... there is nothing you can do about the color of your eyes, skin, and hair... or the shape of your eyes, mouth, nose but there are tricks you can do with makeup to camouflage unwanted looks or to enhance striking features youhave.  We see pictures and techniques all over for makeup.. why not hair?
 
This is a fun game if you ask me but risky for those who don't have the extra money to spend for big mistakes (corrections at the salon).  How we feel about our hair affects how we feel about ourselves (By the way that was so wonderful of you Denise to help your client out when she was unemployed seeking for new jobs!!). 
 
Smile, thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hannebash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2006 at 9:08pm
well, to answer one of your questions: you can wash makeup off--hair color botching can be quite a pain to fix, and alot of the bloopers cannot be fixed and you will spend the next year or so growing out your mistake. I have a trusted hairdresser who did my color for years. I would never in a million years try to do what she does myself. I've done color myself, and though I came here and educated myself beforehand, I can't say that the results were actually good. More like acceptable until I could grow it all out. from now on I'm saving my money for a pro. I'm pretty traumatized. I'm sure others out there are much more enthusiastic about tackling hair color. I used to get highlights and color done regularly. After what I went through to get back to my natural color, I think I will enjoy it for a bit.  I felt ugly all year. Now my hair is shiny and natural albeit a bit too short (after cutting out all of what was left of the artificial color).
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Denise Kingsley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denise Kingsley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2006 at 9:11am
Please do not listen to the "color expert" at Sally's. No experts work there. They may have a license, but that IN NO WAY makes someone an expert. Although I must thank them for the correction business!!!
 
Color swatches...
There is level and tone.
Level is lightness and dark
 
tone is the value of more of a certain pigment.
 
A 7 is a 7 is a 7, no matter the tone
 
Gold tones will make the hair look lighter
Ash tones will make it look darker, but it will not be lighter or darker, it is the perception of the tone.
 
I always determine the level, then tone, then I figure out what I want to achieve, then decide how I want to do that!
 
I work on color all day everyday for years. It is impossible for someone to learn all of that, coloring their own hair once every 6 weeks.
I hope the level tone stuff helps!
Denise Kingsley
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Originally posted by Denise Kingsley Denise Kingsley wrote:

Please do not listen to the "color expert" at Sally's. No experts work there. They may have a license, but that IN NO WAY makes someone an expert. Although I must thank them for the correction business!!!
 
Color swatches...
There is level and tone.
Level is lightness and dark
 
tone is the value of more of a certain pigment.
 
A 7 is a 7 is a 7, no matter the tone
 
Gold tones will make the hair look lighter
Ash tones will make it look darker, but it will not be lighter or darker, it is the perception of the tone.
 
I always determine the level, then tone, then I figure out what I want to achieve, then decide how I want to do that!
 
I work on color all day everyday for years. It is impossible for someone to learn all of that, coloring their own hair once every 6 weeks.
I hope the level tone stuff helps!


Firstly, where are you?  You sound like a very kind person as well as colorist!

I'm trying to color my own to save money and b/c I often have not been happy with the highlights i spent $350 to get.   I have been cautious so have done 2 or the bleach washes over the course of several months.  But  I don't want to do that anymore b/c my hair color is orange but darker at ends which i now cut off.  This last time I used a level 8 blueviolet base w/30% developer for root touchup.  Very gold at roots.  but over time it has settled down a bit with purple shampoo.  My bangs are still gold/orange.  I was thinking of using the level 8 but with 10% developer.  But the professionals I have spoken to tell me don't use the purple shampoo anymore or the blue/violet base otherwise i will get purple hair.  Some have said ash, others have said green.  When I have test stranded with a green base I get reeeeeeal green hair.  My hair is baby fine and pourous.   So green is out for me.

Now after all that, what if i used a level 9 blue base with 10% for just a minute or two on my bangs?  All I want to do is get rid of that damn orange.  The level is good for me, just not the tone.  (The woman at Sally's who claims to be a colorist said I need 20%, but that doesn't sound right b/c I am not interested in lifting only toning.  But hey, what do I know?

Thanks for any input you may have!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxyloxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2006 at 3:59pm
to get rid of my orange highlights I mixed dark medium ash blonde with a toner that was blue based...I think towhead with 20 volume developer. I put 75 % of the ash with 25 % of the blue based color and the correct amount of developer only on the roots. Then mixed a fresh batch, but deducted 25 % from the primary ash blonde and replaced it with 25 % of clear gloss and ran that thru to the ends, as to avoid it grabbing. The green counteracted the orange and the blue countered the green...it turned my highlights a very cool shade with beigey tones......
Linda :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chardonnay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2006 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by Foxyloxy Foxyloxy wrote:

to get rid of my orange highlights I mixed dark medium ash blonde with a toner that was blue based...I think towhead with 20 volume developer. I put 75 % of the ash with 25 % of the blue based color and the correct amount of developer only on the roots. Then mixed a fresh batch, but deducted 25 % from the primary ash blonde and replaced it with 25 % of clear gloss and ran that thru to the ends, as to avoid it grabbing. The green counteracted the orange and the blue countered the green...it turned my highlights a very cool shade with beigey tones......
 
Now this is very cool altho for me a bit complicated.  I'm a colorist dummy. 
 
May I ask what level you started at and end with?  Which specific products did you use? 
 
Thank you!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Foxyloxy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2006 at 1:04am
Naturally, I am a level 7 ash on the so-color matrix chart....I think that is a light ash brown. I have been highlighting and lowlighting for a long time, but now I can't afford to go to the hairdresser, so I am doing it my ownself.
I wanted to lose my hightlights and add more depth and make it a light coppery brown with the intention of going back through it with a highlighting cap and putting some light golden brownish/blonde streaks and then pulling it through again at an different angle and lifting it to a light golden blonde, but I wanted more depth, so I started with the light coppery brown...I was too scared to go with a medium shade, so I went light.
I got a tube of Ion light coppery brown mixed it  (2 parts color) with cap full to a cap full and a half of 20 volume developer. It was soooo dark because I caused there to be more deposit and less lift. And it grabbed my porous ends and they looked muddy!
So I started washing it alot esp. the ends...they have faded.
A few days later and a bunch of intensive condtioning treatments bc color takes better over well-conditioned hair. I planned my next move.
 I pulled it through a cap and lightened it to a ugly golden orangey color with prisms hi-lites from salleys with a 30 volume developer. 
And then I  put a clariol medium ash blonde (I wanted to go darker but was tooooo afraid, so I went one shade lighter than what I really wanted) 75 % of this color with 25 % split between blue based toner....I think towhead and a blue violet based toner------I will not add violet again...it grabs too easily!!! Add I used the correct amount of 20 volume developer bc by this time I was too scared to venture off the directions. The ash cancelled out the reddish/orange and I guess the blue killed the green overtones it can develop when using ash.....I read claude's sticky...up above.
Well, i left that on the roots for I guess about 35 mins and the last 10 minutes or so I mixed up a fresh batch of color but deducted some of the ash color and replaced it with a clear gloss with everything else the same. Plus, I had conditioned my porous ends really good and misted them with spray on conditioning treatment (infusium)----I dried my hair after each color. It was prolly 50% ash blonde with 25 % gloss and the other stuff the same.
It came out tooooo beigey for me....kinda like knaki. So, I took the cap off and dried it and decided to run a very light light golden blonde color like clairol lightest golden blonde mixed with a cap or so of 20 vlume developer and a bunch of cholestral condtioner and ran that thru the roots and at the midshaft to the ends I mixed a fresh batch again with gloss replacing some of the color. I combed it through and now have medium auburnish-brown hair with some ashy tones and some golden tones. It's fine by me, but I still want to try something else....just planning right now.
I am too tired to spell or grammar check...night!
Linda :)
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