Outspoken critics of long hair

JerkyFlea,It's not a dig at your column. The point I was trying to make in thatparagraph was to differentiate the methods of receipt of the message.When someone criticizes you to their face, there is no avoiding it.If someone is criticized in writing, they need not be aware of itunless they actually seek out the feedback on themselves, in which casethey are choosing to receive the message.> This may just boil down to who you know.Perhaps. Between us, we know of examples of both situations.As for what you see as being somewhat of a contradiction (item 2)...A given woman who has short hair either (a) has always had short hair,(b) had short hair for a long time, or (c) has recently cut their hair.For the women in category (a), there is no issue. For the women incategory (b), "time heals all wounds" seems to hold largely true. Formost of the women in category (c) that I have known, they were, to agreater or lesser extent, emotionally upset.However, the actual percentage of women in category (c) is *very* smallrelative to categories (a) and (b). Thus, upon seeing a short-hairedwoman, I never make any assumption about how she feels about her hair.It would probably be a safe bet that a given short-haired woman chosenrandomly from a crowd is not presently experiencing such emotionaldistress.Dave

Lurker,This has been an interesting threat of messages and I confess, even as a man with long hair, that I would like to add my ³two cents².> Depends on who is doing the crique, AND the type of> critique. If it is destructive criticism, then> definitely not. But, if it is constructive criticism,> and I respect the source of the critique, or if I> think they have a valid point, I will probably think> about it.We all tend to listen to those we respect, but even those we respect can exert a lot of negative pressure.> If it is your boss, maybe you should listen. If it is> your lover, maybe you should think about it.When you have to make a monetary decision the stakes obviously go up. In relation to your lover, you have to determine how important the relationship is. And, you can always assert yourself and say this is who I am. It may require negotiation, but any relationship involves that.> If it is a stranger on the street, then be as rude to> them as they are to you: tell 'em THEIR hair looks> like crap, and you like your own just fine!!!I don¹t think I would feel comfortable, myself, to fight back in that way. But then, as a Christian I would probably ³turn the other cheek². I can also ignore what they say and brush it off. It still hurts, but I have to be true to my convictions. ³Fighting fire with fire² doesn¹t solve anything and just gives the other person more reason to feel the way they do.> It is a point of view quite like your own! You have> frequently espoused the blanket opinion that women> look best with long hair, that you don't understand> why women cut their long hair, that there is a> "conspiracy" to coerce people into cutting> their long hair, you hate to think about women> "cutting inches of hair"....in short, you> are biased toward long hair!> This is a long hair point of view!!!Some of us prefer long hair. My wife has short hair and I love her dearly. After almost 30 years of marriage you learn to accept the other person. I still would prefer her to wear her hair long, but that is her choice. It isn¹t worth ruining a great marriage! I believe Dave is simply sharing his preference and belief that too many women are coerced into cutting their hair. It would be a boring world if everyone thought the same. And it is a shame to see someone coerced into doing something they don¹t want to do. Sometimes, when you are baraged by criticism or comments on a frequent basis, it is easier to give in then to hang on.> May be allowed??? Like someone is standing with a tape> measure and a pair of scissors, telling the person> that their hair has reached "critical> length", time for a cut??See my last comment.> Hey, the violins are playing! Wa Wa Wa. I guess the> moral of the story is to get a backbone! It is like> telling your kids not to let their friends make them> do drugs or steal.This is what really caused me to respond to this post. Again, I am speaking as a man, but I¹m sure many women might have experienced the same feelings. Three years ago I had grown my hair for two and one half years. I buckled under my own pressure to cut my hair for a job interview (which didn¹t pan out). When I realized my mistake it was too late, but the pain of growing it back was very real. Yes, I am an adult and I don¹t expect any violins, but those previous two plus years had been very difficult.... my home flooded, my elderly father moved into our home to die, my older son was preparing for a wedding (with the involved stress), and my wife lost her job. Then we had my older son¹s wedding, my father died, and my younger son left for college, all in three weeks. My wife and I went from a house of five to an ³empty nest². What I¹m trying to say is, the fear of what would lie ahead while I was growing my hair back made the pain of losing my hair worse. Perhaps only a person who has had long hair and ³involuntarily² cut it would understand what I am saying.> Like these (supposedly) adult women cannot make up> their own minds??? If the women let themselves be> influenced, THEY still made the final decision to go> with the cut. Gee, Dave, you make it seem like these> gals are just so damn PLIANT that any smooth-talking> hair-cutting kind of guy can just charm the hair right> off their pretty little heads!!!I still think that constant pressure from others can force us to make irrational decisions. It isn¹t easy to ³go against the crowd², it takes a lot of courage.> If they are unhappy after the cut, call it a cheap> lesson in life. At least they won't be going to prison> for making a mistake in judgement!A cheap lesson can also be a painful one!> Again, as long as the person is not being forcibly> held down and having their hair cut off against their> will, my only response it: get a backbone! We are> (mostly) all adults, and adults make choices. Learn to> say "NO".Easy to say, not always easy to do.I just wanted to add my opinion.

> Dave,> I'm only going to hit on a couple of things since you> and Lurker seem to be battling it out well without> me...I don't perceive this as a "battle", just kind of a friendly debate and discussion. Lets all have fun!> First thing , I've cut hair on the side for about 10> years and have taken several women from long to short> (including Mrs. JerkyFlea).Sounds like fun. Did you start on your wife? My wife recently let me start giving her trims and blunt cuts after she decided that spending big bucks on "professiona stylists" was a big bummer (after a bad butchering job that cost her 40$).> In that time, believe or> not, I've never talked a woman into going short. In> fact, in almost all of those cases, the woman decided> to do it despite the OBJECTIONS of friends or family> members. Usually, she had to talk her> husband/boyfriend into it because he preferred it long> (a whole different discussion) or her friends told her> not to cut it because her hair was so pretty.This makes sense to me. Lots of times women meet with big-time resistance to cutting their long hair. In college I lost a girlfriend because I begged her not to cut her hair, she decided that I was a control freak...she dumped me and got her hair cut really short!I have not done a survey, like Dave has, but it seems to me that for every woman who is talked into cutting her hair short, there is one who is talked into keeping it long.Dave, perhaps your "survey" sufferes from what is known in the statistics field as "sample bias": your sample of women is skewed because of your choice of interviewee.> This may just boil down to who you know.Jerky Flea says it all in the above line: it may be that your survey is biased by who you are asking!> Second thing , though you say:> 2) I am not among those who "instantly assume a> woman has been coerced, butchered, and emotionally> wrecked simply because she has short hair."> you later say:> ...I would actually say that the vast majority of the> women I "surveyed" were cajoled, pressured,> suggested, recommended, etc by whatever means, subtle> or not, that their long hair was just not> "professional" or face-flattering" or> "fashionable," etc. It's such that one could> easily conclude that there is a conspiracy to disheart> women from choosing long hair.Dave, this is NOT a personal attack, but I agree with Flea: you and I discussed this in another thread, about "what is a long hair point of view" and I just want to PARAPHRASE a few of your posts here:30 March 10:21pm - "a majority of the clients hair should remain attached to the client's head to make them more beautiful"31 March 12:05pm - "a haircut for long hair is otherwise known as a trim"29 March 8:04am - "removing lots of hair does not enhance appearance" and "IMHO 99.9% of the time removing healthy length is not an improvement"19 March 12:19am - "Yes, I love long hair"Dave, I just wanted to show you that you are definitely displaying a bias towards long hair! You DO display a long-hair point of view!That is fine, I just don't want you to be in denial! :-)

Dave,I'm only going to hit on a couple of things since you and Lurker seem to be battling it out well without me...> The "outspoken critics" I referred to are> those, such as confronted my> colleague's friend, who, to her face, passed negative> judgment against> her choice. It is one thing to publish a document> speaking unkindly> of a given hairstyle choice, allowing others> (including possibly the> subject person) to choose whether or not they wish to> consume the> material. It is altogether another thing to make> efforts to ensure> that the (negative) comment is heard by the subject of> the comment.Is this a dig at my column? Just wondering.First thing, I've cut hair on the side for about 10 years and have taken several women from long to short (including Mrs. JerkyFlea). In that time, believe or not, I've never talked a woman into going short. In fact, in almost all of those cases, the woman decided to do it despite the OBJECTIONS of friends or family members. Usually, she had to talk her husband/boyfriend into it because he preferred it long (a whole different discussion) or her friends told her not to cut it because her hair was so pretty. Of the women I took from long to short, all were glad they did it, but two. How did I know they were glad? Because they went out of their way to tell me they liked it days later, they kept it short, or, in some cases, went shorter. As for the other two, one liked the cut, but just wanted a longer version and the other did it on the spur of the moment, much to the surprise of everyone.This may just boil down to who you know.Second thing, though you say:2) I am not among those who "instantly assume a woman has been coerced, butchered, and emotionally wrecked simply because she has short hair." you later say:...I would actually say that the vast majority of the women I "surveyed" were cajoled, pressured, suggested, recommended, etc by whatever means, subtle or not, that their long hair was just not "professional" or face-flattering" or "fashionable," etc. It's such that one could easily conclude that there is a conspiracy to disheart women from choosing long hair. Just seems somewhat contradictory.As usual,JerkyFlea

>> Huh?! Why would you expect those of us who receive>> unsolicited criticism to accept it? Tell me, do you>> appreciate it when others criticize what you have>> Depends on who is doing the crique, AND the type of critique. If it> is destructive criticism, then definitely not. But, if it is> constructive criticism, and I respect the source of the critique, or> if I think they have a valid point, I will probably think about it.I sense that many times when women receive criticism about their longhair, it is perceived in a negative/destructive manner (Ladies -- careto comment?). Sometimes, criticism can be given under the guise of beingconstructive. The oft-heard comment "you would look so much moreprofessional with short hair" might, on the surface (and from theperspective of the advice-giver) be perceived as being constructive,but from the perspective of the recipient of this advice, it is mostlyseen as disapproval for their present choice.> If it is your boss, maybe you should listen. If it is your lover,> maybe you should think about it.I always listen to what my boss says. He is a businessman and hefocuses on the business at hand -- and has never said a word about myhair. And I wouldn't be with a woman who didn't first like me for whoI am -- and my hair is a part of me. If she were to dislike my longhair so much, she would be welcome to leave me to pursue any of thevast majority short-haired men.> If it is a stranger on the street, then be as rude to them as they> are to you: tell 'em THEIR hair looks like crap, and you like your> own just fine!!!While I might well say that I like my own just fine as it is, I wouldnever stoop to such a rude and mean-spirited level as you havesuggested.> It is a point of view quite like your own! You have frequently> espoused the blanket opinion that women look best with long hair,> that you don't understand why women cut their long hair, that there> is a "conspiracy" to coerce people into cutting their long hair, you> hate to think about women "cutting inches of hair"....in short, you> are biased toward long hair! This is a long hair point of view!!!You have attributed some beliefs to me which I do not hold.Yes, I feel that most women look better with long hair than with short.I DO understand why women cut their long hair. I understand thatsometimes they choose freely of their own and unpressured choice to doso. I also understand that many times they are pressured by othersinto doing so. I neither hate nor enjoy thinking about women "cuttinginches of hair." I do have an aesthetic appreciation of long hair.>> Yes, it does grow. And it may be allowed to grow back>> to its pre-cut length.>> May be allowed??? Like someone is standing with a tape measure and a> pair of scissors, telling the person that their hair has reached> "critical length", time for a cut??You are misinterpreting my words. I am saying that the woman may ormay not allow her hair to regrow to its pre-cut length.>> How would you feel if you had been talked out of something>> you like, and then had to wait years to get it back?>>Hey, the violins are playing! Wa Wa Wa. I guess the moral of the story>is to get a backbone!Perhaps those so affected are lacking sufficient self-confidence. Ifthey are, how shall we treat them? With respect? Or with disrespect?>Like these (supposedly) adult women cannot make up their own minds???Right, so then why do they need others to recommend a haircut?> Gee, Dave, you make it seem like these gals are just so damn PLIANT> that any smooth-talking hair-cutting kind of guy can just charm the> hair right off their pretty little heads!!!Sometimes, yup.>If they are unhappy after the cut, call it a cheap lesson in life. At>least they won't be going to prison for making a mistake in judgement!Yup. It could be worse. A whole lot worse. But this Message Board isabout hair, not about criminal activity.>> To suggest that the actual rate of such coercion is so>> low seems an attempt to minimize (to pooh-pooh) the>> extent of the situation....And the notion of cutting>> one's hair short being "necessary" to look more>> "professional" is just one such myth used to "encourage">> (coerce) women to cut their long hair>>WARNING! WARNING! Long-hair point of view being expressed!I have talked with quite a few women who cut their long hair short andessentially (in a gentle and friendly way) queried them as to theirmotivations for and feelings about their haircut. Most of these womenhave expressed similar feelings of (a) having received some amount andform of external pressure to cut, and (b) wistful regret. This is afact. I invite you to perform your own survey. I suspect your estimateof "one in thousands" is grossly low. Now you tell me whose perspectiveis biased?>Again, as long as the person is not being forcibly held down and having>their hair cut off against their will, my only response it: get a>backbone! We are (mostly) all adults, and adults make choices. Learn to>say "NO".Well, there you go. Food for thought for some people.Dave

> Sorry to hear of the grief you (and your friend) have> gotten.Well, it really is NOT a big deal. Most of the people I work with are bozos, so I do not pay much attention to them anyway. As for my wife's friend's husband and his partners: he made the decision to go back to brown hair based on their concerns as to their patient's reactions...call it a form of coercision, but he made the choice, nobody FORCED him to do it.> Yes. How reassuring is that, knowing that you've just> cut the hair you like because somebody made you feel> inadequate for having it?Hey, see my post in the other thread: if critique makes an individual fell inadequate, maybe they need a good self-help book or therapy or some such. In the end, people are going to make their decisions based on A LOT of factors, and if they allow their co-workers or friends to influence them into a cut that later makes them unhappy, call it a cheap lesson in life.> "Your long hair makes you look so unprofessional,"> "You would look so much better if you got a more 'mature'> look," etc.)Well, some of these people are just being jerks, some may actually have a good heart and be offering constructive criticism. You just have to handle the situations as they arise on a one-by-one basis.> Just an understanding of the modus operandi of the> hairstyling industry.I thought most of those offering the unsolicited advice were friends, family, and co-workers....

> Huh?! Why would you expect those of us who receive> unsolicited criticism to accept it? Tell me, do you> appreciate it when others criticize what you haveDepends on who is doing the crique, AND the type of critique. If it is destructive criticism, then definitely not. But, if it is constructive criticism, and I respect the source of the critique, or if I think they have a valid point, I will probably think about it.If it is your boss, maybe you should listen. If it is your lover, maybe you should think about it.If it is a stranger on the street, then be as rude to them as they are to you: tell 'em THEIR hair looks like crap, and you like your own just fine!!!> What does this mean? What exactly is a "long hair point> of view? Please explain.It is a point of view quite like your own! You have frequently espoused the blanket opinion that women look best with long hair, that you don't understand why women cut their long hair, that there is a "conspiracy" to coerce people into cutting their long hair, you hate to think about women "cutting inches of hair"....in short, you are biased toward long hair!This is a long hair point of view!!!> Yes, it does grow. And it may be allowed to grow back> to its pre-cut length.May be allowed??? Like someone is standing with a tape measure and a pair of scissors, telling the person that their hair has reached "critical length", time for a cut??> How would you feel if you had been talked out of something > you like, and then had to wait years to get it back?Hey, the violins are playing! Wa Wa Wa. I guess the moral of the story is to get a backbone! It is like telling your kids not to let their friends make them do drugs or steal.Like these (supposedly) adult women cannot make up their own minds??? If the women let themselves be influenced, THEY still made the final decision to go with the cut. Gee, Dave, you make it seem like these gals are just so damn PLIANT that any smooth-talking hair-cutting kind of guy can just charm the hair right off their pretty little heads!!!If they are unhappy after the cut, call it a cheap lesson in life. At least they won't be going to prison for making a mistake in judgement!> To suggest that the actual rate of such coercion is so> low seems an attempt to minimize (to pooh-pooh) the> extent of the situation....And the notion of cutting> one's hair short being "necessary" to look more> "professional" is just one such myth used to "encourage"> (coerce) women to cut their long hairWARNING! WARNING! Long-hair point of view being expressed!Again, as long as the person is not being forcibly held down and having their hair cut off against their will, my only response it: get a backbone! We are (mostly) all adults, and adults make choices. Learn to say "NO".

> (1) I am not aware of any instance (in my own life, or> that of anybody I know) whereby one person has ever told> another person that their hair was "too short."Well, I don't know you personally, but I can tell you that this exact thing did happen to me! If you have read some of my other posts, you know that this last summer (after being fed up with paying for haircuts I did not like) I started buzzing my hair to about 1/2 inch with electric clippers.Several people with whom I work told me that it looked kind of "radical" and "punkish". They suggested that it is too short for office norms! One person kind of suggeted that it looked "gay" (like lots of homosexual men wear short hair).Fortunately, my wife likes it just fine! And so do I.Yeah! Give me a break. If it is to my shoulders it is too long, if it is 1/2 inch (like a military cut) it is too short! WHAT DOES "THE ESTABLISHMENT" WANT ANYWAY???? Maybe I will just get a blue mohawk!A friend of my wife has a husband who is an M.D. He got his hair blonded for fun, his partners had a fit! They told him that it was not good for the patients to see him, they may start to "ask questions". Honestly. He was pressured into going back to dark brown.> (2) I am not among those who "instantly assume a woman> has been coerced, butchered, and emotionally wrecked> simply because she has short hair."My wife certainly did not feel this way when she got her hair cut off last summer. She got a great new haircut, and was very happy with it.....until another stylist ruined it with too many layers! It was not the "short" that she disliked, it was that the last idiot did NOT do as she asked.> However, some women ARE coerced into unwanted haircuts> and some women do undergo the resultant emotional distress> (thus, the origin of the word: "dis-tress").Good pun!> I would actually say that the vast majority of the women> I "surveyed" were cajoled, pressured, suggested,> recommended, etc by whatever means, subtle or not,> that their long hair was just not "professional" or> "face-flattering" or "fashionable," etc.Well, few decisions are ever made in a "vaccuum", and it is ultimately the choice of the woman (or man) to get the haircut. If they bow to "pressure" from whatever outside influence, then that is just part of the decision.> It's such that one could easily conclude that there> is a conspiracy to disheart women from choosing long> hair.That is perhaps getting just a little paranoid (ie, "They are all out to get people with long hair!").

Oops -- sorry about the previous message. Since Hair Politics went up I don't visit Hair Talk as much, but I just zipped on over and saw discussion about your review. Glad to hear you're moving over to HB! I read your article and loved it. . .keep it up! :)

JerkyFlea,Please allow me to clarify my point. I apologize for not beingsufficiently clear before.The "outspoken critics" I referred to are those, such as confronted mycolleague's friend, who, to her face, passed negative judgment againsther choice. It is one thing to publish a document speaking unkindlyof a given hairstyle choice, allowing others (including possibly thesubject person) to choose whether or not they wish to consume thematerial. It is altogether another thing to make efforts to ensurethat the (negative) comment is heard by the subject of the comment.(1) I am not aware of any instance (in my own life, or that of anybodyI know) whereby one person has ever told another person that their hairwas "too short." I don't doubt that it may have happened somewhere inthis world. If it does happen, I would be willing to bet that the farmore frequently professed judgment is that the other's hair is "toolong."(2) I am not among those who "instantly assume a woman has beencoerced, butchered, and emotionally wrecked simply because she hasshort hair."However, some women ARE coerced into unwanted haircuts and some womendo undergo the resultant emotional distress (thus, the origin of theword: "dis-tress"). Some women choose of their own free will andwithout undue pressure or duress to go from long to short, or fromshort to long. The two situations are completely different.> I completely agree that a woman who cuts her hair short and then> regrets it is much more impacted than a woman with short hair who> decides to grow it out and doesn't particularly like it. Why? Because> one obviously takes a great deal more time and sacrifice to return to> it's previous state.Very true!> From a purely objective viewpoint here, I think that those that> encourage someone to cut their hair are viewed more harshly because> the change is instant and undoing it can take years. Conversely,> those preferring longer hair encourage a change that can take years,> but that can undone in moments.Yes.> Simply put, a person who has had short hair for a long time and> finally grows it out may love it or decide to cut it off again. Same> for a person with long hair who cuts it; they may love it or> immediately start taking Viviscal or Miracle Grow or something. You> have given several examples of folks that have done the latter, but> I contend that there are also many in the former category.Possibly, yes. The issue I raised is not about the feelings about thechange, it's about the conditions under which the change is made (duress).> And believe it or not, in the vast majority of both cases, someone> actually decides for themselves and isn't the victim of a meddling> friend/family member or a rogue stylist.Is a "vast majority" acceptable, such that we can ignore those whoaren't treated with respect?Besides, and in the course of my life I have talked with a lot of womenafter having undergone a major haircut, I am not convinced that the vastmajority of these women have made the decision without any such externalinfluence recommending a big haircut. On the contrary, I would actuallysay that the vast majority of the women I "surveyed" were cajoled,pressured, suggested, recommended, etc by whatever means, subtle or not,that their long hair was just not "professional" or "face-flattering" or"fashionable," etc. It's such that one could easily conclude that thereis a conspiracy to disheart women from choosing long hair.Dave