cut sons hair

Karrine, I could care less about this woman or her kid, I don't even know them.
But in most neighborhoods, maybe not all neighborhoods, a little boy that stands out from the rest of the little boys and appears to them to be "girly" is going to get his little rear end kicked.

For better or worse we are not living in the "hippie" era any more you might have noticed. Yes there are still some long haired men but very rarely, anywhere I have been in recent years in America, do you see little boys with long hair. They would obviously be picked on and ostracized, especially in tough blue collar neighborhoods.


But like I said it's not my problem, I've got my own kids to raise.

i know what you mean tina, i live in the midwest and in many parts of the country like the midwest, and other parts of the country, a girly boy with long hair , well, the kids would make life miserable for him.

You're absolutely right, Tina. I DON'T
have kids. And I think I never will,
either. And you know why? Because
there is too much evil, controlling and
misery in the world. But I flatly
disagree with you that one must
make all the decisions for little kids.
Just plain having your way does not
make you "spoiled". Being given too
much money, toys, electronic
equipment etc, not being expected to
behave like a good citizen etc. It has
nothing to do with just having choices
in life - and certainly nothing to do
with such trivial things as how to wear
your hair.

Are you not going to have kids Duke because the world is just such an awful, evil place like you say, it's just terrible, or are you not going to have kids because you're such a sap no woman would have you?

Wow, things are getting a bit crazy in here.

The fact that it was a boy or girl wasn't the issue Tina, the issue was that it was done without parental consent. The boundaries were crossed, and that is the main problem.

Yes this is very upsetting for her, she had posted a message before about whether to cut his hair or not. If I had been in the same situation, I would of been just as upset!

Oh come on Jenna, the little twerp Duke set himself up for an insult. He said he may never have kids because the world is such a controlling, evil, miserable place. What kind of sappy self-pity is that? That is laughable! Poor Duke, the world is so mean !
Now if people don't want to have kids or can't for some reason have kids, that's fine, not everyone is supposed to have children.

But not have kids because the world is so miserable and mean. A world with "mean" people in it like little 'ol Tina, us people that are so "mean" and "controlling" to our children?
I will have you know I have a beautiful, smart, well-adjusted daughter, and yes sometimes I'm strict with her, other times a little less so, I allow her to grow and learn but I also give her some discipline in a loving but firm way, as a parent should.

Well I'm glad some people have kids Jenna, otherwise there would be no people!

If some people don't want to have kids that's fine, but to say I'm not going to have kids because the world is too mean, or the government is too mean, or people are too mean is ridiculous. That's self-pity. What if everyone thought like that? There would be no people! That would be boring!

This Duke guy, I don't know how old he is, but he writes silly.

*Actually Jenna birthrates are dropping all over the world.
It started in western countries and now it's spreading virtually everywhere. Even in the third world countries birthrates are down 50% in the past twenty years. In some western countries as well as in Japan and China, birthrates have dropped below the replacement level of two children per two adults. The world's population, sooner than you know it, may start to shrink if current trends continue.
Some people are happy about that, less pollution they say, but you need a certain amount of young people to sustain a decent economy, and there are other ways to reduce poluution such as hydrogen or fuel cell automobiles.
The overpopulation problem is almost over if world trends continue. Fifty years from now they could be talking about an "underpopulation" problem.


*Having said that though I am fully aware that not everyone is destined to have children.
I am a childless lesbian woman myself, although my life partner Tina has a daughter as she told you whom we are raising together, and she is presently pregnant again.
*As far as the long haired boy, short haired girl situation, there is a status quo of sorts. Most people let their girls hair grow a bit and cut their boys hair short. As Tina pointed out, this isn't always the case with adults. A large number of adult women wear their hair short and some men still wear long hair, but like Tina pointed out, they have adult features and bodies so you can easily tell the men from the women.
*There are societal norms. This is a fact.* As a lesbian couple, Tina and I, especially in the middle class suburban setting where we live, don't flaunt our lesbianism. We keep a low profile. People that know us well know that we are a couple, but to others, Tina is the mother with the child and I am a roomate living with them.
I don't refer to Tina as my wife, nor does she refer to me as her female husband or her mate. Tina's daughter calls her mom. I have always been Kathy to her. I am not her mom, even if I help in raising her. *Some lesbians believe people like us should be very upfront, very open with everyone about our relationship, but we have to consider not only the prejudice that still exists towards us, but also how it can affect our daughter. We do protect her.
*Likewise a mother or father who, for their own satisfaction, dresses a boy as a girl or visa versa, or who isists on having her little boy grow long hair as a little girl would, is selfishly exposing their child to unecessary ridicule and humiliation, which could "toughen" the kid up, but it could also scar and disturb the child for life. You never know.*
*Yes we are all individuals with our freedoms, but to completely ignore societal norms in the name of individualism or just plain contrariness, can be very selfish where children are concerned.

*Yeah some people say we will eventually have 9 billion people on earth before the population starts to drop. These were the same people that a few years ago were saying we were going to have 12 billion people. Then they revised it to 10 billion. Now they say 9 billion. Already there are some study groups saying 8 billion.
I'm talking about trends, especially in the third world which is seeing most of the population growth. If the downward trend continues the world will grow a little, level off and start to drop, and it can happen very quickly. Look at Italy or Japan, high growth rate to depopulation in twenty years.
*I have studied demographics and social trends for years for years. It interests me.
* Just as I reject leftist radical lesbianism and feminism, even though I am both a lesbian and a feminist, I also reject the leftist population control fanatics, who are running around trying to convince perfectly healthy women to have abortions rather than adoption. People are surprised when they learn that I am not a leftist. After all I'm a lesbian, aren't they all supposed to be radical leftists? But the world in general and the first world countries in particullar, are far too leftist on social issues.
*As a lesbian woman, I want equal rights but that doesn't have to mean we need to teach 5 year olds about lesbianism in the schools. Most people are in fact hetrosexual and want to teach their children that. As a lesbian I understand full well that my lifestyle will always be in the minority. All I ask is to be left alone and not harrassed, abused or bothered by people that disagree with my lifestyle.
I do believe in shared benefits for unmarried hetrosexual couples and gay and lesbian couples but that is simply an economic matter. I am not the least bit interested in forcing my lesbian lifestyle on anyone or acting obnoxious about it like unfortunatly some of my fellow lesbians do.
Well enough of that, I can't sleep tonight but I have to get at least a couple of hours of sleep before work so I'm off to bed. Please excuse the lecture.

And another thing, Tina. You attach
such importance to societal standards.
I say, individuals' rights are more
important. I don't mean not having
good manners and stuff - there are
rules (such as covering your mouth
when you cough, not insulting people
etc) in order to help us function in
society. But society won't fall apart
if people fight to look like they want.
Let me pose you a simple question.
Do you wear pants? I bet you do, like
most women nowadays. But women
used to have to wear skirts and
dresses. A century ago, it was also
(at least in middle and upper class
society) expected that women would
wear several skirts under their skirts,
and make their waists as thin as
possible by tightening them with
these uncomfortable girdles that
could cut your breath or give you
cancer. Now, how do you think it
happened that women are allowed
to wear comfortable clothes today?
Did they just sit back and say "aw,
shucks, we just have to conform"
and wait for someone to allow them
to throw away the corset and put
on a pair of britches? NO! They
flaunted society's standards and
dared to fight for their right to look
as they saw fit. So I say, let your
kids do what they want and, if they
so wish, fight against society's
unreasonable standards.

By the way, I re-read cadensmama's
original question about whether
she should cut Caden's hair. I read
the thread again, and was surprised
that you, Tina, defended the idea of
Caden having long hair, and very
vigorously at that. What made you
change your mind?