cut sons hair

"Oh come on Jenna, the little twerp Duke set himself up for an insult. He said he may never have kids because the world is such a controlling, evil, miserable place. What kind of sappy self-pity is that? That is laughable! Poor Duke, the world is so mean ! "


Um actualy Ive felt the same way as Duke on this particular matter. I dont think it laughable at all. The world has much to offer but there are still alot of perils. Sometimes it is difficult to love someone so deeply when you see them getting hurt or misused. To see your own child go through such pain must be heart acheing and a person with a tender heart who knows the pains of life might wish to not create a person who will have to go through such pains. So i understand the desire to not have children. I dont think it selfish...just a matter of protecting ones heart and not putting someone else in the situation to hurt.

However, on the other side, life isnt always all terrible. There is much love and pleasure to be found. If you dont have kids you may miss out on this. But the choice to not have kids is not a selfish choice. Just a personal choice. Goodness sake we dont all need to procreate!

I dont know if I want kids. Ive experienced things I dont want them to experience. But I know if i ever do have kids they will hurt as I have. maybe in different ways but there are people out there who will casue them pain. Hopefuly my kids wont be the ones causeing the pain. Its a tough world and a tough choice for someone who loves deeply and has felt pain and conciders the possibility of a child with the reality of bringing someone into a world of pain and pleasure alike.

Brent - I know Tina did not advocate
keeping Caden's hair long in THIS
thread. She did in cadensmama's
ORIGINAL thread (around August,
see I think page 3 of this forum)
when she asked if she should cut
his hair or not.

Longhairedlover, if you had carefully
read the above posts, you would
have noticed that Caden had a very
adverse reaction to the haircut. I
hope it doesn't scar him for life (as
silly as that may sound, such early
experiences can have an impact on
peoples' psyches). And his mother
was certainly freaked that the
grandma dragged him off like that
behind her back. So I think your
comments are out of line.

As much as I agree with ya, better be careful or almighty D.D. will start preaching at you with 10 or 12 posts on the subject.

Sorry, I didn't mean Jenna, I meant Cadensmama!

Very good post Laine. We're never going to be able to agree about everything, which is what makes the world interesting and diverse. It's natural to disagree, but it makes the world a little smoother if it's done respectfully and nonjudgementally.

ok i really need to jump in here since i posted the original message...tina, i'm not raising my son to be picked on..my husband,father,grandfather,etc were and are all blue collar...furthermore my husband was a freestyle wrestler...the second best way to defend yourself there is...next to jujitsu...he was cal state champ 3x and 2nd in the nation...now he coaches young kids to wrestle in his spare time...caden is not going to have a problem defending himself if thats neccesary....he doesnt run amuck doing as he pleases...we are very strict..he is being raised to be polite and a productive member of society...my whole beef was w/my mother-in-law interefering...not really how long his hair is...and also her reasons for cutting it...if you read my 1st thread posts you will see the pics of my son and realize he did not have long girl hair. just barely shoulder length in back...so i really dont understand why u are having such a cow...as we say here on the west coast...CHILL...there are so many more things that you could channel all that anger at..for the greater good so to speak.. ps i'm republican!!!

And another thing, Tina. You attach
such importance to societal standards.
I say, individuals' rights are more
important. I don't mean not having
good manners and stuff - there are
rules (such as covering your mouth
when you cough, not insulting people
etc) in order to help us function in
society. But society won't fall apart
if people fight to look like they want.
Let me pose you a simple question.
Do you wear pants? I bet you do, like
most women nowadays. But women
used to have to wear skirts and
dresses. A century ago, it was also
(at least in middle and upper class
society) expected that women would
wear several skirts under their skirts,
and make their waists as thin as
possible by tightening them with
these uncomfortable girdles that
could cut your breath or give you
cancer. Now, how do you think it
happened that women are allowed
to wear comfortable clothes today?
Did they just sit back and say "aw,
shucks, we just have to conform"
and wait for someone to allow them
to throw away the corset and put
on a pair of britches? NO! They
flaunted society's standards and
dared to fight for their right to look
as they saw fit. So I say, let your
kids do what they want and, if they
so wish, fight against society's
unreasonable standards.

By the way, I re-read cadensmama's
original question about whether
she should cut Caden's hair. I read
the thread again, and was surprised
that you, Tina, defended the idea of
Caden having long hair, and very
vigorously at that. What made you
change your mind?

*Yeah some people say we will eventually have 9 billion people on earth before the population starts to drop. These were the same people that a few years ago were saying we were going to have 12 billion people. Then they revised it to 10 billion. Now they say 9 billion. Already there are some study groups saying 8 billion.
I'm talking about trends, especially in the third world which is seeing most of the population growth. If the downward trend continues the world will grow a little, level off and start to drop, and it can happen very quickly. Look at Italy or Japan, high growth rate to depopulation in twenty years.
*I have studied demographics and social trends for years for years. It interests me.
* Just as I reject leftist radical lesbianism and feminism, even though I am both a lesbian and a feminist, I also reject the leftist population control fanatics, who are running around trying to convince perfectly healthy women to have abortions rather than adoption. People are surprised when they learn that I am not a leftist. After all I'm a lesbian, aren't they all supposed to be radical leftists? But the world in general and the first world countries in particullar, are far too leftist on social issues.
*As a lesbian woman, I want equal rights but that doesn't have to mean we need to teach 5 year olds about lesbianism in the schools. Most people are in fact hetrosexual and want to teach their children that. As a lesbian I understand full well that my lifestyle will always be in the minority. All I ask is to be left alone and not harrassed, abused or bothered by people that disagree with my lifestyle.
I do believe in shared benefits for unmarried hetrosexual couples and gay and lesbian couples but that is simply an economic matter. I am not the least bit interested in forcing my lesbian lifestyle on anyone or acting obnoxious about it like unfortunatly some of my fellow lesbians do.
Well enough of that, I can't sleep tonight but I have to get at least a couple of hours of sleep before work so I'm off to bed. Please excuse the lecture.

*Actually Jenna birthrates are dropping all over the world.
It started in western countries and now it's spreading virtually everywhere. Even in the third world countries birthrates are down 50% in the past twenty years. In some western countries as well as in Japan and China, birthrates have dropped below the replacement level of two children per two adults. The world's population, sooner than you know it, may start to shrink if current trends continue.
Some people are happy about that, less pollution they say, but you need a certain amount of young people to sustain a decent economy, and there are other ways to reduce poluution such as hydrogen or fuel cell automobiles.
The overpopulation problem is almost over if world trends continue. Fifty years from now they could be talking about an "underpopulation" problem.


*Having said that though I am fully aware that not everyone is destined to have children.
I am a childless lesbian woman myself, although my life partner Tina has a daughter as she told you whom we are raising together, and she is presently pregnant again.
*As far as the long haired boy, short haired girl situation, there is a status quo of sorts. Most people let their girls hair grow a bit and cut their boys hair short. As Tina pointed out, this isn't always the case with adults. A large number of adult women wear their hair short and some men still wear long hair, but like Tina pointed out, they have adult features and bodies so you can easily tell the men from the women.
*There are societal norms. This is a fact.* As a lesbian couple, Tina and I, especially in the middle class suburban setting where we live, don't flaunt our lesbianism. We keep a low profile. People that know us well know that we are a couple, but to others, Tina is the mother with the child and I am a roomate living with them.
I don't refer to Tina as my wife, nor does she refer to me as her female husband or her mate. Tina's daughter calls her mom. I have always been Kathy to her. I am not her mom, even if I help in raising her. *Some lesbians believe people like us should be very upfront, very open with everyone about our relationship, but we have to consider not only the prejudice that still exists towards us, but also how it can affect our daughter. We do protect her.
*Likewise a mother or father who, for their own satisfaction, dresses a boy as a girl or visa versa, or who isists on having her little boy grow long hair as a little girl would, is selfishly exposing their child to unecessary ridicule and humiliation, which could "toughen" the kid up, but it could also scar and disturb the child for life. You never know.*
*Yes we are all individuals with our freedoms, but to completely ignore societal norms in the name of individualism or just plain contrariness, can be very selfish where children are concerned.

Well I'm glad some people have kids Jenna, otherwise there would be no people!

If some people don't want to have kids that's fine, but to say I'm not going to have kids because the world is too mean, or the government is too mean, or people are too mean is ridiculous. That's self-pity. What if everyone thought like that? There would be no people! That would be boring!

This Duke guy, I don't know how old he is, but he writes silly.