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Tangles & Liggett’s bar shampoo

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EvanaJoy View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 20 2005 at 9:47am
I got a bar of Liggett's bar shampoo (the plain kind) back in December. It seems that every time I use it, my hair gets very tangled. If I don't comb it out while my hair is wet, I almost have to cut out the tangles!

I have uncolored, shoulder-length, wavy locks. I don't usually have a bad problem with tangles; but sometimes I do have to comb when wet if I've used heavy conditioners.

Am I using the Liggett's somehow wrong? I usually do two rounds of shampooing, and shampoo every day. My hair actually squeaks when I use the Liggett's, so I would think that I'm getting it quite clean.

After about a week of using Liggett's solely, I felt that my hair was much oiler than I was used to (although family members evidently didn't notice a difference). Since then, I've used Liggett's in a rotation with other cheap shampoos (Suave, Tressemme) that I felt got it cleaner. I don't know if I committed to using Liggett's for longer than a week, my hair/scalp would eventually get used to it and stop producing so much oil?

I really would like to use all-natural shampoos (I'm also going to post another message on that). If anyone can suggest other products to try or tell me the right way to use Liggett's, I really would appreciate it.
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EvanaJoy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EvanaJoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2005 at 11:10am
I should add a note that I really do like the way my hair looks the first couple of days of using the Liggett's. I used it last night, and my hair is so bouncy, wavy, and really quite lovely (if I do say so myself). 
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Alyssa_ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alyssa_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2005 at 4:45pm
If your hair is actually squeaking, you're stripping it of all its natural oils.. squeaky clean isn't a good thing when it comes to hair. This would also explain why your scalp is producing so much more oil; it's trying to compensate for everything you are stripping away.
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Karen Shelton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karen Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2005 at 5:21pm

Alyssa is right on.  When hair squeaks all the natural oils are gone and your hair will be much more prone to tangling.  Especially since you mentioned that your hair has a natural wave.  When hair is overly dry and the oils are stripped off, hair takes on almost a Velcro feel where the middle and ends will literally stick to each other because they are devoid of oil.

And yes...as Alyssa so wisely pointed out, the body compensates.  If your hair becomes too dry, it will swing to the opposite side of the spectrum and become very oily.

Furthermore, Liggett's bar shampoo was originally designed for campers, hikers and people that had a hard time shampooing their hair on a daily or regular basis.  The concept behind the Liggetts is that it is easy to pack because it is a hard bar of soap.  It was designed to be a convenient soap just for that.  Camping and traveling in the woods.

Also, the water used might be random and not ideal.  So bottom line, Liggetts bar shampoo is not ideal for daily use.  In fact, I would go so far as to say that it is not ideal for use more than once a week.  And the reason is because of exactly what you are experiencing.

Now if you wish to use it all the time, I would say to dilute it and not use it full strength.  You could experiment with chipping a small piece off and putting it into a glass jar and then filling it with warm water and then shaking to form a soapy mixture.  Then take just the liquid and drizzle that on your very wet hair.

Also, I would never recommend using a Liggett shampoo for more than one wash per shampoo session. Again, because it is striping your hair.

While it is truly a pure and natural soap, also remember that back in the pioneer days, people did not wash their hair for days, even weeks on end.  And this soap can be traced back to very early days.

So if you still want to use it that is cool, but back off using it every day or dilute it and definitely don't shampoo 2x.  Most people, except those with really dirty hair or hair that is super oily, never need more than one application of shampoo per washing.

 

 

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EvanaJoy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EvanaJoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2005 at 10:18pm
Thanks so much for the advice! I actually got the bar shampoo partly because I am hoping to go on a trip for 7-10 days and was looking for something that would be easy to take along (plus the whole wanting-to-go natural thing). I'm going to try some other options.

On the subject of shampooing twice -- that was something that my Mom taught me when I was a little (I think she does it). I'll have to try the one shampoo method.

 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karen Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2005 at 10:40pm

Hi EvanaJoy,

Yes...the bar shampoo is awesome for traveling.

Other great natural or mostly natural shampoo bars include:

1.  KnottyBoy shampoo soap.  While it is for dreads, it works well for all hair and smells divine.  Just be sure to dilute it or like any bar soap, it could be too intense.
http://mp.hairboutique.com/product.asp?ProdID=100059&Ctg ID=

Real tea tree oil and other natural ingredients works great to gently cleanse the scalp.  KnottyBoy Shampoo soap was created by the founder of KnottyBoy and it is a great shampoo/soap.

2. Burts Bees shampoo bar soaps.  Also divine and also great for traveling.  They have the following:

Baby Bee Shampoo Soap - Is 98% natural & very gentle for babies.
http://mp.hairboutique.com/product.asp?ProdID=102827&Ctg ID=

Ingredients:
Vegetable soap, vegetable glycerin, oat protein, yucca schidigera extract, fragrance, buttermilk powder, panthenol (pro vitamin B5), tocopheryl acetate (vitamin E), sweet almond oil, rosebud powder, titanium dioxide, iron oxide.

Rosemary Mint Shampoo Soap - 99% natural and very minty.

Ingredients:
Vegetable soap, vegetable glycerin, rosemary oil, yucca schidigera extract, oat protein, peppermint oil, nettle leaf, rosemary leaf, avocado oil, coconut oil, panthenol (pro vitamin B5).

3.  Bee & Flower Sandalwood Soap
Many people dilute this soap and use as a shampoo.  Especially people that travel or are prone to dandruff.  Dreadlock wearers often use this to rinse on their scalps in lieu of the KnottyBoy Shampoo soap.
http://mp.hairboutique.com/product.asp?ProdID=101526&Ctg ID=

4.  Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Bar Soap
http://mp.hairboutique.com/product.asp?ProdID=100925&Ctg ID=

This is also used as a base for diluting for shampoo.  All of the Dr. Bronner soaps are fabulously pure and can be used for a base of shampoo whether you go with the bar soap or the liquid.

If I think of any others, I will post here.

Also, it was a big deal until recently to encourage people to shampoo 2x.  Over the last 10 years the general opinion of hair care experts have changed and now they believe in most cases 1x is enough and diluting is a great way to prevent hair from getting too dry or scalp problems from occuring.

Please let me know if I can help further.

Best wishes,
Karen

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EvanaJoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2005 at 11:12pm
Is there a standard formula for how much water to add to soaps to make them into shampoo?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 21 2005 at 6:17pm
Hi EvanaJoy,

I don't believe there is a "standard" dilution ratio.  Choose what works for you.  Experiment to find that "right" amount.  It may vary, too, depending on your hair's needs (how dirty it is).  I typically go with a ratio of about 5-1 or 10-1 (5 to 10 parts of water per 1 part of shampoo).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EvanaJoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2005 at 8:44am
So......I would take a 4 oz. bar of shampoo, cut it up (in order to go into the neck of the bottle), put it in a 24 to 48 oz. bottle, add water, and vigorously shake until a shampoo-like mixture? (I wouldn't need to microwave the soap until liquid, would I?)
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44 oz. ! Where is my grade school math when I need it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffrey Hines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2005 at 10:23am

Originally posted by EvanaJoy EvanaJoy wrote:

So......I would take a 4 oz. bar of shampoo, cut it up (in order to go into the neck of the bottle), put it in a 24 to 48 oz. bottle, add water, and vigorously shake until a shampoo-like mixture? (I wouldn't need to microwave the soap until liquid, would I?)

Not exactly. The 4 oz bar is 4 oz net weight. While the bottle is fluid oz. The ounces are totally different.

For more info on Ounces vs Fluid Ounces...

http://www.pastryitems.com/book_of_yields.htm

Jeffrey Hines
HairBoutique.com



Edited by Jeffrey Hines
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kuroneko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2005 at 3:06am

Blee. . . well, I remember reading as a teen-ager that shampooing once wasn't enough (something about how it cleans on the first wash, and adds volume or whatever else it's meant to do on the second), and that hair isn't clean enough unless it literally squeaks -_-; .  *feels very old now, knowing the rules have changed so much since that time*  I'll have to see how well my hair likes one washing.  Not sure if I should try dilution or not, though, as I feel like my scalp (and sometimes hair) gets pretty oily and dirty.  I would think diluting shampoo, it wouldn't get all the dirt and stuff, would it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eKatherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2005 at 6:06am
What I've read is that unless your hair is exceptionally dirty (enough to clearly prevent the shampoo from lathering up properly) that shampooing once is enough, and twice is drying.

The reason they tell you to lather, rinse, repeat is because you use more shampoo that way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EvanaJoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2005 at 8:21am
I've been washing once for the last 3 nights -- once with plain Tresemme shampoo, and twice with shampoo plus conditioner. My scalp is less itchy. My hair is a little oiler than sometimes, but that's probably because it is less dried out. (Could be because I've been touching it and playing with it more, too.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alyssa_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2005 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Kuroneko Kuroneko wrote:

I would think diluting shampoo, it wouldn't get all the dirt and stuff, would it?



I thought the same thing until I tried it.. I actually get a better lather and feel cleaner in one shampoo when I use it diluted, believe it or not!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EvanaJoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2005 at 2:21pm
I have been doing the one-shampoo per shower for a week or so now. It seems to be working -- but with one of my shampoos (aleeda with vitamins and conditioners) my hair is still squeaking and getting a little tangled. Should I water it down, or not use it any more?

Karen, I am planning to buy a couple of the shampoos you recommended once I use up more of my old shampoo (which is going to take longer now that I am using less ).

One more thing -- should I wash my hair twice after swimming in a chlorinated pool, in order to get the chlorine off; or would that be making matters worse because I'd be really drying out the hair and scalp? (I don't swim often, but wanted to know for future reference.)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2005 at 12:35pm
EvanaJoy,

If possible, wet your hair (until soaking) with "fresh" (tap) water, if possible, before swimming in the chlorinated pool.  Afterwards, use a chelating shampoo; I've heard that Jason's make a good swimmer's shampoo.  You could probably "get away with" only one shampooing after swimming.  And if possible, time your hair washings so that you enter the pool with "dirty" (and wet) hair... so that you're not washing your hair more than you would have otherwise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karen Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2005 at 4:48am

Hi,

Swimming is sooooooo tricky because a lot depends on the amount of chemicals in the pool.  Believe it or not, some pools do use more chlorine and other chemicals than others.

What works best for me (and I have slightly highlight hair - I only have it highlighted in the Summer and only marginally) is to take a bottle of distilled or good quality Spring water in a quart size plastic bottle and then right before I get into the pool, I dose my hair good.  Get it soaking wet.  Then I may or may not put on a cap depending on how dorky it looks and how protective I am feeling about my hair.  :-) 

Then after getting out of the pool...for even a few minutes...I dose my head again.  Really pour the water on.  This will instantly rinse off any chemicals that are clinging.  Remember that chemicals cling much easier to dry hair than wet hair.  So keeping the hair wet is a big plus in avoiding chemical damage.

After I go to the showers, I dose my head again with water and then do a light conditioning rinse first.  I pour 1 part of my rinse out conditioner into a clean plastic bottle and then fill with lukewarm water and then drizzle all over my soaking wet hair and pat it in.  Then I rinse well and if I feel the need (depends on how my hair feels to the touch) I will do my diluted shampoo drizzle.  Then rinse, rinse, rinse and then conditioners.  I finish with my leave-in conditioner (usually Phyto 9 which I use anytime I do something out of the ordinary to my hair). 

As far as doing two shampoo treatments...I probably would not recommend it.  The key is to use lots of water to rinse all the chemicals out so there is no damage.  I think after being in the sun and wind I would not recommend 2 shampoo treatments....even drizzle and diluted... Try the the poolside water dousing, the first treatment as conditioner only and then 1 diluted shampoo and then conditioner.

If your hair doesn't feel soft and fabulous after all of that, I would be surprised.  :-)  Yes, it is a lot of work...I agree.  But when you have longgggggggg hair or hair that you want to stay in the very best condition, it does take a little time and forethought.

And Dave is right....hair that has built up natural oils over time, is also more protective then hair that is just shampooed. 

However, chemists have discovered that the #1 way that hair absorbs chemicals from pool, is when it is bone dry.  So even if the hair is "aged" from the last shampoo, even it you used leave-in conditioners, even if you are out of the sun (which accelerates damage)...if your hair is dry, it acts like a big sponge and slurps up those nasty chemicals.  :-)

Glad to hear things are working out for you.  Please keep posting of your progress.  It is always so cool to hear about how people find their way through their own testing process with different products and hair care techniques. 

Originally posted by EvanaJoy EvanaJoy wrote:

I have been doing the one-shampoo per shower for a week or so now. It seems to be working -- but with one of my shampoos (aleeda with vitamins and conditioners) my hair is still squeaking and getting a little tangled. Should I water it down, or not use it any more?

Karen, I am planning to buy a couple of the shampoos you recommended once I use up more of my old shampoo (which is going to take longer now that I am using less ).

One more thing -- should I wash my hair twice after swimming in a chlorinated pool, in order to get the chlorine off; or would that be making matters worse because I'd be really drying out the hair and scalp? (I don't swim often, but wanted to know for future reference.)


That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger or drives you totally insane. :-)
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