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Inappropriate Touching Of Long Locks!

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Karen Shelton View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 04 2003 at 9:57am
Hi all,

I know this has been covered on other boards & on other sites but it just happened to me a few days ago and it is fresh in my mind. Unfortunately I was on a formal business lunch so I was limited to what I could do.

Here is what happened:

I was having a business lunch with my software company partner and our largest/long time customer. The customer is Japanese...so he is very polite and extremely well-mannered. I was wearing a business suit but have my hair pulled back from my face but "down" and curled at the ends.

When the waitor came over to the table he put his hand on my shoulder & on my hair and said "how are you today?" I don't like people to touch me at all but I figured that he was just a "touchy" person. So I didn't say anything. When he came to bring our drinks he stopped by my chair and put his hand on my back and said "are you all ready to order?" He then ever so slightly slide his fingers through my hair. It was almost nonexistent movement...but he did cop a hair feel and it freaked me out.

I was actually shocked. I jerked back to get away from him. My business partner gave me a weird look but I didn't say anything...out of respect to the Japanese businessman who didn't seem to notice the incident.

I then pulled my hair to one side and tucked it next to my body. Sure enough, the next time the waitor came by he touched me on the shoulder where I had pulled my hair. I squirmed away again and gave him a withering look.

I wasn't sure if I should make a scene, excuse myself from the table and go find the manager or what. If I wasn't with my company's biggest customer (we were talking several major new projects at lunch) I would have done something more dramatic. My business partner kept looking at me funny like "what is going on" but I didn't tell him about what was really happening until later.

I did go into the restroom and put my hair into a tight bun. And every time I saw the waitor coming to the table I would move out of his range. The thing is.......he could have easily said that he was just being "friendly".

You know how it goes. AFTER the event, you think of a million things you could have done or said.

At any rate has this happened to any of you? What did you do? What is the polite thing to do? Should I have reported him?

Thoughts? Advice? Comments? Share your own experiences?

Thank you so much.
Karen

That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger or drives you totally insane. :-)
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 10:52am
Karen!!!

Shocking.
That is such a horrible experience.
I understand that you could not respond immediately, nor communicate your offense, but it sounds like the waiter knew it and was taking advantage of the situation. Why do I make that presumption? Because you jerked away from him and because you changed your hair position/style twice!!!
He had no right to touch you at all. That is totally unprofessional behaviour and an invasion of your privacy.
I think you should have turned to him calmly and quietly the first time it happened and said “Please do not touch me – I do not like it”. Even if it took 30 seconds away from your guests. If he was just being “friendly” (which I doubt) he was also being insensitive and invasive.
In your position, I would now call up the manager of the restaurant and tell him what happened. Tell him to direct his staff not to touch clients in future.

Similar experience? Yes, but not as nasty as yours.
I wore my hair loose to work a couple of weeks back on dress-down Friday (normally I bun/pony it for work – this was the first time of loose wearing).
One of my colleagues who is in a more senior position felt compelled to pull it/flip it every time he passed me in the corridor/by the coffee machine/on the stairs. The first time he did it, I pulled away (unfortunately causing myself pain because he had a hold of my hair) and said “get off”. I didn’t smile even tho’ he did. Yeah. Big joke.
Anyway, later that afternoon I was waiting for the lift. Just as it arrived I felt a hand stroking my head. Lift opens and his fiance who works for the same company but in an adjoining building, saw it. Well, if looks could kill….
I spoke to her the following day. She was pretty upset but said that the look of disgust on my face at the time had assured her that it her partner who was out-of-order. They had had words. And he’s avoided me ever since.
Consequently, I will not be wearing my hair loose at work. Funny thing is, my hair is not long. It’s just past shoulder-length. I wouldn’t have thought it would warrant such attention.

It’s hard to know what the appropriate response is in these circumstances.
Maybe we women rely on non-verbal communication to get offence across to guys. In my case, maybe I didn’t say the words strongly enough because it was an unexpected incident? I guess it’s time to get tougher and more verbal in such situations. We have to protect ourselves from these people.

Hope you are having a nice Sunday.
I’m trying to write a report but keep getting distracted by the hair boards as usual.

Take care, ((((((Karen)))))).

Uzi
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Starburst View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Starburst Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 11:02am
OMG. How horrible Karen.

Uzma. Thank you for your story. I had a similar story with a guy at school. We had assigned seating and this guy would lean forward and play with my hair if it was down. I turned and told him to stop. Later he said "you know that you like it". Of course I didn't. I went and talked to the professor and he moved me to the front of the lecture room in front of another girl. So that fixed that problem. The guy now glares at me when he sees me but I don't care at all since he is a creep.

Karen, I think you should write a note to the restaurant and report the jerky waitor.

Uzma, you handled it so well. I admire your courage to speak up. It is really great that he got caught on the lift. Karma. It is a wonderful thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperGrover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 3:23pm
Karen! Yikes! Men are such pigs. Well, most of them.

I had a similar thing happen to me once about 4 years ago, though not nearly that severe. I was picking up Chinese take-out and the restaurant was not busy at all, and the guy at the front, I don't know if he was the owner or a waiter or what, but he asked if he could touch my hair. I thought it was rude to say no, so I said "Um, okay." He made some comment about liking blonde hair.

The funny thing is, my hair at the time was REALLY damaged!

At the time, I just figured it was curiousity about hair from a different race. But it's still a rude thing to ask a complete stranger. I suppose in his mind he thought he was being complimentary.
At least he asked! I don't know what I would have done in your case, Karen. I think going to put it up in a bun was a good idea.

Some men get a kick of making women feel uncomfortable. Like when you wear a new dress and some slimey man says "Aren't you looking nice today, little lady?" with a sneer and a gross twinkle in his eye. Makes you want to run back home and change clothes.

Thanks for sharing that story!
Traci

PS That was the worst Chinese take out I ever had! The food was as greasy as the man!
"Hair is a part of you. It is not a part of me, because I am a frog." - Kermit the Frog on Sesame Street1b/N/ii ~ ??"/27"/32"
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Karen Shelton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karen Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2003 at 5:40pm
Hi Uzma, Starburst & SuperGrover,

Yes...I think the guy was doing it on purpose because he saw me squirm away and I definitely gave him a withering look. I think Uzma you are right that I should have said something to him and I agree SG that he probably was enjoying making me feel uncomfortable because it was very obvious that we were having a business lunch. We had contracts and diagrams...so maybe he knew that I would not make a scene.... or has other agendas. Anything is possible.

It just felt really creepy. Like I was taken advantage of but yet couldn't do anything about it.

Thanks for all your stories and support. I love how the guy in Uzma's deal got caught in front of his lady. Oooohhhh serves him so right. Also, Starburst, I admire that you told your teacher and took action.

And SG, wouldn't you know that the food would be horrible?

Being blonde like you SG I have found that I when I was younger and going to clubs that I would always attract the guys from places like Iran/Pakistan/Iraq/Kuwait/India and often China. I think they are fascinated with the blonde hair/blue eyes/pink complexion thing. Its not that I have anything against people of other races, I just always found that interesting. Especially since "my type" was definitely not "dark and handsome" but "blonde or lighter brunette with long hair". Usually the guys would have very short hair as well. Nothing against it, just didn't do anything for me and of course first impressions are most important when you are younger and in a club of all places. :-)

The Inappropriate Touching waiter jerk is one of those situations that I will be replaying in my head for awhile. Kind of like Meg Ryan in the movie You've Got Mail when she says that when something happens she couldn't think of anything to do or say but after the fact she has a ton of things. :-)

Thanks again for all your great feedback.

Best wishes,
Karen
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger or drives you totally insane. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kintaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2003 at 11:37am
If only we were in a world without reproach....


I'd humiliate the waiter on the spot, I'd tell you how, but a comic strip could do better. I'll work on that, and show you what I come up with.



And then warn his manager when leaving that if he pulls a stunt like that again, you'll break his arm in 4 places :P --- 3 places for the 3 times then, one for the final screw-up.



Edit : If you could have pre-apologized (ask him to wait, chotto matte kudasai) and post-apologized to your client (Gomen nasai [I'm really sorry], where were we ?), a no-holds barred attack on Mr. Waiter would have been welcomed :P


Or maybe not. Best way to know would have been to politely try
I hate all of the following and lots more : Fundamentalists, racists, sexists, fascists, ageists (people saying seniors = senile , kids = stupid , 18 = immature or a combo of them), and bigots for causes yet to receive their own designation.
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2003 at 11:53am
I studied Wing Chun for 2 years when I was in my teens and learnt the art of using small movements at close quarters to overcome the enemy.
Like bending his little finger in the wrong direction and then twisting it and him with it, to a position of subjugation.

Problem is that in the kind of situations we are dealing with, the enemy has the advantage of suprise. Also they preceive a certain safety in their power and our relatively vulnerable positions reinforce this. But it is all about perception and the granting of power and control to the "other". Psychology bites.

I knew I should have stuck to my martial arts studies because I was on the verge of learning all about preparedness and 360 environmental consciousness when I pulled out.

Kintaro has a good point Karen.
Next time you enter a potential enemies territory, speak to the ppl there and apologize in advance if their subsequent inappropriate behaviour will result in you causing them physical &/or legal damage.
In soccer terms, that's a 1-0 score before kick-off.

Uzi
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Karen Shelton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karen Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2003 at 12:38pm
Hi Kintaro,

Thank you so much for your thoughts. I can't wait to see the comic strip. I am sure it will be fantastic.

And Uzma....

You never cease to amaze me with all the things you have studied and done. How fascinating to study Wing Chun. I have always wanted to study marital arts but alas...too many things to do and not enough hours in the day.

In fact, I owe my editor at 101 Celeb my monthly HairDoctor column today and I am feeling blah from working so hard all weekend. So I am sitting her being distracted...pleasantly...by you and Kintaro instead of writing about hair problems. :-)

Thank you both for your feedback, great ideas and wisdom.

Best wishes,
Karen
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger or drives you totally insane. :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kintaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2003 at 1:41pm
Wing chun, aikido (my dept.), or at least something that has to do with controlling your opponent, and not just striking it (Ju-jutsu, Judo, etc...).


Useful on anyone, from a religious nut to a nut-nut. In moderation of course. Overtly using too much power (95 % of all strikes) is illegal.
I hate all of the following and lots more : Fundamentalists, racists, sexists, fascists, ageists (people saying seniors = senile , kids = stupid , 18 = immature or a combo of them), and bigots for causes yet to receive their own designation.
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2003 at 1:52pm
There is the “use the opponent’s energy against them” technique.

The first time Creepy-guy was bending down to molest Karen’s back, she could have quickly stood up and whacked her crown chakra force into his solar plexus – or upper-cut him with her head.

Yes it would have hurt her too, but she would be in control of that manoevre. Mental victory.
And, if Karen had had a deadly Ficcare in her hair at the time, there would have been blood.

Creepy-guy would likely have been shaken-up and confused sufficently to forget his secret harassment mission. Also, neither Creepy nor the other guests would have known if it was just bad timing or a deliberate counter-attack on Karen’s part.
Uzi

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote princessmonica Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2003 at 6:31pm
years ago i went to a club. this guy kept bothering me. the more he was stitting by me putting my hair behind my hair saying ''don't hide your face with you hair'''...yuck! it was time for him to go! i my uncle was at the club too so i went and told him what was going on. the guy wouldn't listen to my uncle! i finally had to get the bouncer to get him to leave.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 05 2003 at 7:59pm
Ugh. Sorry to hear you were put into such an awkward position, Karen.

I understand the reasons you didn't want to make a scene in front of important business clients. Quite valid.

Do you know the waiter's name? You could talk with the restaurant manager and explain what happened. Leave it up to the manager to decide the waiter's fate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hairalways Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 06 2003 at 1:09pm
Uzma - Please don't give that jerk the satisfaction of knowing that he is the cause for you no longer wearing your hair down. Wear your hair as you wish!!! Let him see it, knowing he can't touch it.

Karen - I had that happen to me at a Chili's restaurant...I wasn't with anyone who I had to worry about tough, so it wasn't difficult for me to do what I needed to do. I simply picked his hand off of my neck/hair/shoulder and let it go in mid air - away from me. I have always been fascinated with the more self-control focused martial arts and look forward to learning them once my little ones get a bit bigger...maybe i can take them to classes with me.


Jacqui
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2003 at 10:55am
Karen

How creepy for you! That is totally unacceptable behavior. I liked the suggestion of removing his hand in a way that all could see. Put him - and others - on notice!

My wife has hair to her knees and the ones that touch it the most often are WOMEN! We were grocery shopping a couple of weeks ago and a woman behind her in the check out lane lifted her braid up and said "Is this all yours?" She said, "No. You're holding a figment of your imagination. Please don't touch my hair." Not bad.

I really don't know how complete strangers feel they can just grab anyone's hair anytime. I recall though that Vidal Sassoon was arrested on a London bus for grabbing a woman's hair. She sat down in front of him and her hair so gorgeous he just "had" to put his hands in it. She screamed, the driver stopped the bus, a bobby was called, and Mr. Sassoon was hauled off to jail. Of course, this was well before he became famous but he said it taught him a lesson: if you want to touch hair, become a hairdresser.

I certainly hope incidents of this kind don't happen to you in future Karen. The world has a lot of ill-mannered people but we don't have to put up that kind of behavior.

Hang in there!!
Merlin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GadgetMouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 07 2003 at 6:40pm
I have much sympathy for all who have had their hair "molested" as I commonly call it. For a while, I had mid/lower back length hair that I dyed interesting colors...it wasn't typical odd pinks or reds either. I was fond of very deep but unatural tones, such as a very rich burgundy purple and dark royal blue (trust me,getting that much hair those colors is one of the hardest things I think I've done recently). I myself think it actually looked good, not like usual poorly dyed "punk" hair, as I never let the colors fade and still took good care of my hair. This seemed to fascinate strangers who would insist on fondling my hair. I had two of my instructors in school touch my hair without asking me first, and one was an administrator. Unfortunately, there wasn't much I could do in these situations, and while they were complementary, it was still inapropriate. The worst time however was when I was at a bowling alley, and a woman approached me and began running her fingers through my "amazing" dark blue hair, and even began to put a braid in it, before I was able to escape. It was incredibly rude.
Maybe a color like that is asking for attention, but it's not asking to be touched.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jennifer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2003 at 8:41am
I don't think a day goes by that it doesn't happen to me. My hair isn't nearly as long as Karen's, but I wear several strands of synthetic extensions that are brightly colored. Complete strangers come up to me, touch one of the strands, and demand, "How'd you do this?"

NEVER happens in Europe. I've finally figured out a way to educate people without being rude in return.

I simply pull back and say, "Do I know you?" The implication is that the person is being WAY too personal to someone he doesn't know.

The worst situation is an acquaintance. That person isn't a complete stranger, yet isn't a friend. Strangers are actually easier to handle.

Although I never have, I've often fantasized about reaching over to the offender's hair and saying, "Since hair is public property, let's scrutinize your hair. Is it real?"

"Is it real" is a question that I'm also often asked. If someone said, "Excuse me, I don't mean to be rude, but I couldn't help noticing your hair. Do you mind telling me how you put the color in?" I would gladly engage in conversation. But when people touch my hair or act as if I am obliged to answer their questions, I find it incredibly rude.

Long hair or hair that is unconventional seems to have an unwritten rule that it is indeed public property. Can you imagine walking up to a short-haired woman (and perhaps as you're complimenting her haircut) and running your fingers over her head?! I can't, and I bet most people cannot, either.

Yet, it's perfectly acceptable to do to long hair. That makes no sense. Perhaps they think that if they touch the hair that's farther from the face it isn't as personal? Well, it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3katz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2003 at 7:11pm
This reminded me of when my daughter was in a DODDS elementary school. She had golden blonde hair down to her hips. It was everything my hair wasn't (sigh!). One day she announced she was going to get it cut: "Anytime we have to stand in line (at school), someone's playing with my hair!" We lived in an off-base apartment, and the Japanese loved her blonde hair, but never touched her. Some one wrote about the appeal of light complexions,etc. Anyway, this being her head of hair, she had it cut up to her shoulders. If she regrets it, she never says so. I just wish I'd kept the cut length for a keepsake.


3katz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Erinlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2003 at 11:17pm
I have a related experiance. Whilst my hair was thigh lenght I got into a conversation with a friend who loves my hair and wants hers as long (right now its very short on her and she keeps cutting it when it goes past her ears). Anyways she was saying how amazed she was that my hair was so healthy looking even though its so long. I said that I do have split ends especialy since its so hard not to sit on it or get it stuck in things. She said it wasnt very apparent.

Causualy then, a few moments after our attention had passed from the conversation to a TV program, she picked up the ends of my hair which was laid out on the sofa next to me and between us and inspected them. Grrr! It was a violation if you ask me. Its one thing when a girlfriend absentmindedly plays with your hair and a total other thing when they look at the ends for damage. I certainly wouldnt lift up someones hand to inspect their nails or cuitcles for chips and flaws.

maybe Im overly senstive...but grrrr!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Erinlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2003 at 11:22pm
Oh, this reminds me of a school story too. In the 8th grade when i ws finaly getting long hair I sat in front of a girl who was new at school. She used to pull my hair out strand by strang. Whats really weird is that she was a friend and so I confronted her and she said she needed the hair. No other explaination. After that i made sure to wear my hair up for that class where she could pull strands at all. She was a strange gal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Erinlynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2003 at 11:34pm
To elaborate a bit more, I dont like it when strangers touch my hair with out asking at all no matter what lenght my hair is or what thier intention. Even with close friends if they dont ask before they touch I get perturbed. Ive got a couple friends with whom Ive come to expect it and thus tolerate it (they have a different meter of personal space...such as the friend who picks up my mail and starts to read it if i dotn say something). At least these few are gentle enough that I am not concerned as much.
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