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uzma View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 4:01am
Tina’s off-topic comments are inflammatory, so I am going to break my own assertion that this belongs on a different board and provide that response.
Note: I am just expressing my personal viewpoint and do not intend offense to those who have chosen a different lifestyle. Each to their own.

We are undoubtedly bipedal, big-brained primates.
There is nothing “stinking” about any animal. I say that as a fully fledgedand functioning non-remissional lycanthropic ape.
The stinking thing is what our species has done and is doing with its phenomenal intellectual and physical gifts. It has slaughtered other species to extinction and murders it’s own. It has enslaved and tortured both. No “stinking” ape or animal does that. No other species elevates it’s destruction of it’s own and as an achievement.
The incredible “advances” we have made in agriculture, industry, medicine and technology have been instrumental in allowing our species to multiply it’s numbers to unsustainable proportions, negatively altered the planets ecological balance and made us war-mongering, greedy and deceitful.

We are so far gone, we no longer know what it would be like to live a free and natural life – we no longer value it as we have “freed” ourselves of it.
Do I want to reproduce and thereby contribute to this mess? Not at all.
There are others who are doing so and the world population is still increasing at an incredible rate, regional trends notwithstanding.
I choose to opt out.
I choose not to have dependents because I am busy coping with the situations that confront me and doing something positive and constructive with my energy.

This is not self-pity. Nor disengagement with the reality of who we are and what we are capable of. It is a well-thought out decision. Words like “sap” or “twerp” presume weakness and are actually the opposite of the truth. I am a woman with her reproductive instinct intact.
I consider it an act of personal wisdom to over-ride that urge. It was not an easy decision, but one that I will defend.
I could have had kids and been happy in my little unit, but that would be selfish and inward looking. That would be cocooning myself away from the broader realities of life and it didn’t fit my need to behave responsibly as a global citizen of Planet Earth.

If you look at the increase in homosexuality, lesbianism, cancers of the reproductive organs and viral-related deaths across the globe, one possible deduction is that Nature is contraceiving or culling this species in order to control the population.
I’m fully supportive of Her agenda.

Tina – this world is only a c.r.a.p.h.o.l.e beacause we have made it into one by s.c.r.e.w.i.n.g. it up. I belive we have an individual and collective responsibility to try and put that right, not keep adding to the c.r.a.p, closing our eyes and having a party.
Uzi

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hairalways View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 5:42am
Uzma - I think it is a very selfless decision you have made. It is definitely a tough world. I wish others who are not in a state to bring forth productive generations would do the same. The world would be in so much a better state. I have also been thinking the same things as you about the rash of illness that "plagues" our world...it is a "thinning of the herd" that seems to occur when things are calm. This type of mass illness began when humans started living in colonies that were enclosed. Black plague, small pox, etc was much more easily transmittable in the dingy, densly populated fortifications of mideival earth. Also today, the Sars virus in heavily populated Asia...I have concluded from this that we humans are really not meant to multiply to the point where we are in a dense population. When we do, illness and disease steps in to "thin us out" a bit.....Interesting thinking, hmmmmm
Of course you know that I am from the opposite side of the tracks. I have 4 lovely, environmentally conscious offspring. Thay have been active in habitat for humanity, community services in our town and help here at home to conserve energy and materials. We are members of the Union of concerned scientists and also try to demonstrate and sign petitons to encourage EC living in our country.
I guess I have positive outlook about it (not that you don't)...yes, the there is darkness in the world, but without the light you can't see it. I am investing in the future of the world by leaving behind 4 people who might incite change for the better.

Jacqui
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tina m View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 8:36am
Geeez you people are serious! .

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tina m View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 8:44am
Actually Uzma, I understand what you are saying, all except the part that having kids and your own little unit is selfish. It's not selfish ti have kids. As I said before, it's good that some people procreate, otherwise there are no people,which would be pretty boring, and no one to pay your old folks pension either.

I also don't buy this business that the world is coming to an end. Sure there's pollution and war , it's bad and may get worse, but we'll muddle through.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 10:58am
Uzma and Tina are a microcosm of what's wrong with the world. Uzma the good girl doesn't breed and Tina the bad girl breeds. Ha! No wonder things are getting worse!(just kidding Tina).

Out here in California it's allways the end of the world. There is so much murder, mayhem, and chaos that they don't even show most of it on the news... Just hop in your car, throw on your Beach Boys or Nine Inch Nails CD, and go out into the traffic jams!
If I was a rational fellow I would do what so many Californians are doing and move myself and my family out to the mountains of Idaho or Utah. But I would be bored out there, all that space and fresh air. I like the chaos and excitment of the city.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 11:09am
As far as the overpopulation goes, if we managed our space and resources carefully, and switched to alternate energy sources, we could easily fit ten billion people on earth with a decent lifestyle. The problem is almost entirely political.
Irresponsible governments in to many places.

But the way things are going we won't even be close to ten billion people. What birth control doesn't take care of, AIDS, malaria, war, etc. will take care of, and as Uzma said, trim the fat, so to speak. They never said this was a nice world.
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uzma View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 11:20am
It's down to individual perspectives and personal choice, Brent.
Not a case of "good" and "bad" - nothing so simplistic.

With regard to my use of the term "selfish", let me clarify that those who reproduce may do so for personal physiological fulfillment (or whatever other reason) and it is the most natural and valid thing for humans to do. Almost a primary objective.

The amount of sacrifices I have seen parents make for their kids is anything but selfish.
My comments were made from an anthropological top-down perspective, considering the large-scale scenario we have created.

I consider the big city a zoo and our lives here lived in cages. We display all the paranoia and isolationist behaviour that other animals display when they are confined.
Hence, I would not want to bring another inmate into this, albeit open, prison.

I often escape out into areas of wilderness and get a taste of what it could be like to breathe free air. The return to London is difficult and is becoming intolerable.

Jacqui - I have the utmost respect and admiration for you and the way you are bringing up your brood. You are nurturing hope.

Bless you .
Uzi

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 12:21pm
i would like to put in my 2 cents about having kids. i'm really not sure. in feb. i had my miscarriage which was the most heartbreaking thing i went through. in fact since sept i've been having a hard time with it since my baby would of been born. i've decided on not having kids right now because without going into great detail my life is very complicated right now. maybe it will change maybe it won't....
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uzma View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 1:26pm
I'm so sorry for your loss, Monica.
Hope things improve in your life soon.
I'll PM you.

Lots of love.
Uzi

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 4:03pm
I can appreciate all of your viewpoints, they are all valid for each of you in your own individual ways.
I have two children, but that was the choice of myself and my husband. Others have to make their own choices about such things.
I'm like Brent though, I'm a city person.
I love Chicago!
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tina m View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2003 at 8:30pm
Of course you're right Jasmine, it's all about individual choice.


You are so right Brent, the worst of us are breeding too much and the good people not enough!!!.
If Uzi had kids they would all grow up to work in humanitarian and scientific fields and do great things for people and the environment. But it is people like me the average nobodies-(or worse!)- that are having the kids. People like me, the common rabble, who just work our little jobs, drink beer and eat hamburgers, and basically just want to go on our own little selfish way, and have fun, and most of the time could care less about saving the world.


Actually it's the religious nuts who are having the most kids. I read an article in the paper about this weird fundamentalist Christian religious cult who live in St. Paul. They have about ten kids per family.


The reason the Middle East is so messed up and getting worse is because for the past 30 years, the Orthodox Jews, not the moderate Jews, and the Fundamentalist Muslim Palestinians, not the moderate Muslims, have been having most of the kids over in the Middle East. They are raised as religious loonies of course and then they grow up and kill each other in the name of God and their respective "Holy" books, -(or their misinterpetation of the Holy books)-.
Between these religious nuts and the greedy rich people, the rest of us are S.C.R.E.W.E.D!!!
That's why when I hear George Bush and his people say it's great that we are bringing democracy to Iraq, I really wonder, is it? They will probably either elect a moron like Saddam Hussein-(or for that matter George W.)- or else they will elect a religious nut, like the idiots that run Iran. So where is the progress!


And it's too late for Eugenics, getting the Uzma's of the world to breed more and the idiots to breed less. The rabble are already too numerous. If you don't believe me, go out and drive your car. Look at all the idiot drivers on the road!
Look at all the stupid T.V. shows that are popular like these dumb "reality" shows, which are actually "unreality", they are just stupid contrived shows. There are a thousand examples of how humanity is dumbing itself down. Or maybe we were always sort of stupid and poorly behaved. Who knows?

To show you how evolved I am , I'm teed off tonight because Kathy came home from work and drank a beer that my ex left here, but because I'm pregnant I can't drink a beer-(I never drink any booze when I'm knocked up)-. So I'm annoyed. I feel like drinking a beer, but I won't. And that's tough for a person from Wisconsin! Half of our diet is cheese, beer and bratwurst!


You see what the rabble is concerned with? Not saving the world but eating and drinking!-( oops, almost forgot, sex too!)-
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2003 at 4:38am
And that's tough for a person from Wisconsin! Half of our diet is cheese, beer and bratwurst!

Tina, with that comment, you would get along in Germany just fine!!!
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tina m View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2003 at 8:23am
Something like half the people in Wisconsin have German surnames.
Lotta Krauts in this part of the country.
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hairalways View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2003 at 6:41pm
I have to say - I think it's absolutely gorgeous the way this conversation has been swerving from one topic to another!

Tina - Congratulations on the new belly! I have a feeling that with a "savvy" mom like you, your offspring may grow to be positive and productive inhabitants of this planet - whether you like it or not.

I will throw down a few buds for you tonight

Cheers.

Thanks Uzi - you know just what to say to give me a pick me up! Been a busy day today.

Monica _ I have expeienced that same type of loss - It is definitely rough going around the due date. I hope that you are finding some peace in your life.


jacqui
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tina m View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2003 at 11:49pm
Actually Jacqui my five year old daughter is a wonderful little girl; she's pretty, smart and well-behaved, maybe better than what I deserve.

Well you know what they say, there are always diamonds in the rough, or something like that. My daughter is a little gem!

With four kids you must be busy. Like we say in the upper midwest, oof da!
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Gord View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2003 at 12:21am
I'm not really interested in the subject matter, but I figure I'm the 75th response to this one. Is that some sort of record?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2003 at 12:35am
I don't know Gord, but you and Lyris have the record for the most posts on Hair Talk forum. You are both over 1,000. And me, Uzma, and a few others are not far behind.
Does that mean we spend way to much time on this silly website?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2003 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by tina m tina m wrote:

I don't know Gord, but you and Lyris have the record for the most posts on Hair Talk forum. You are both over 1,000. And me, Uzma, and a few others are not far behind.
Does that mean we spend way to much time on this silly website?
Ouch, Tina... I only write when I have something to say. And you? LOL... Karen/Dave: shouldn't Lyris and I qualify for a plaque or something? Or at least a lock of Karen's gorgeous hair!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2003 at 2:29pm
I beg to differ! I do not stink and neither do any of the other animals! Excepting maybe the musking snakes and skunks. But, speaking as an animal and having smelled other animals, I do not feel we stink. ...well people who wear perfumes stink...but thats another story.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2003 at 2:53pm
Anyways, Uzi, I feel how you do.
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