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Clare View Drop Down
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Joined: December 28 2000
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    Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:20am
Hi, Dawn,I found it hard to believe that the posts were from you as well.Regards,Clare> Whoa, whoa, whoa, Sarah, that post, and a previous one> a while back about sodium laureth sulfate, and any> others that may be signed Dawn but are obviously> abrasive and confrontational in nature, are NOT, I> cannot stress strongly enough, are NOT from me, Dawn> as in RareGems as in Hair Boutique's exclusive hair> jewelry, Dawn. I can see you're upset about the> response, but I assure you, that its not me talking> there. I got my hair the hard way through 20 plus> years of patience, and I'm not supporting or> advocating anyone's hair growth products.> Sorry about the confusion, but its not really my> fault, I haven't read the entire board for a couple of> days so didn't see this brewing.> I'd ask that the other poster include some sort of> appendage to their name to distinguish it from mine,> but I'm not sure they're the sort to even care that> they usurped my identity, and perhaps that was their> intent all along, to add some credibility to their> posts. Remember when someone posted pretending to be> Karen? Anyway, again, I'm sorry about the mistaken> identity, but you yourself were surprised that the> post seemed out of character for me weren't you?> You, other Dawn, stop it, you're making me look bad in> front of my friends!!!> Very best wishes to all,> The real Dawn
Clare
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Dawn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:20am
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Sarah, that post, and a previous one a while back about sodium laureth sulfate, and any others that may be signed Dawn but are obviously abrasive and confrontational in nature, are NOT, I cannot stress strongly enough, are NOT from me, Dawn as in RareGems as in Hair Boutique's exclusive hair jewelry, Dawn. I can see you're upset about the response, but I assure you, that its not me talking there. I got my hair the hard way through 20 plus years of patience, and I'm not supporting or advocating anyone's hair growth products.Sorry about the confusion, but its not really my fault, I haven't read the entire board for a couple of days so didn't see this brewing.I'd ask that the other poster include some sort of appendage to their name to distinguish it from mine, but I'm not sure they're the sort to even care that they usurped my identity, and perhaps that was their intent all along, to add some credibility to their posts. Remember when someone posted pretending to be Karen? Anyway, again, I'm sorry about the mistaken identity, but you yourself were surprised that the post seemed out of character for me weren't you?You, other Dawn, stop it, you're making me look bad in front of my friends!!!Very best wishes to all,The real Dawn> Dear Dawn,> Harsh? You of all people should understand about not> advertising since you have been very good about not> advertising your hair jewelry here but providing> honest feedback. I used to appreciate that very much.> What about supporting Karen & Jeff?> They pay for this site out of their own money. If Mr.> Mach wants to provide information about his product> why does he not pay to advertise on this site?> This could have shown support for the HB site where> Mr. Mach hopes to sell his products to the many many> visitors who come here every day. Which K&J pay to> advertise about so that lots of visitors do come here.> Has Mr. Mach chosen to pay for advertising? Well I> doubt it. If he had, where are the banners? Where are> the paid ads?> Instead, it appears that Mr. Mach wants to use Hair> Talk for his own agenda.> Why pay K&J to help with the costs of Hair Boutique> when he can just take over the Hair Talk board and> post all about his products? For free. And act like he> is doing a service to boot. You know, I am screwing> over Hair Boutique and Hair Talk, but hey, I just want> to help.> Dawn, I guess Karen & Jeff are social workers who> should pay for Hair Boutique out of their own money> and let people like Mr. Mach just post his> advertisements for free. Is that what you are want?> Well if that is it, yes, you are right, I was> extremely harsh and I apologize for supporting Karen> & Jeff.> Dawn, did you know that there were two previous> messages that were immediately removed from Hair Talk> BEFORE the current round? Did you check into that> first before you accused me of being harsh and taking> Mr. Mach's side?> Mr. Mach posted the name of the web company that did> his new site and a link to them, he thanked a lot of> people for buying his product, and may I mention, he> makes sure to post a link to his site on EVERY single> one of his posts. Free advertising?> I guess I was wrong.> If you go to Mr. Mach's site, there are no links or> banners to other sites. Nothing about Hair Boutique or> Hair Talk anywhere.> So Mr. Mach feels free to take over Hair Talk and post> all about his new site and his great webmaster and his> great product but where is there any mention of any> other companies or other products OR other websites> like Hair Boutique? Nowhere.> Harsh? Yes, I guess I am.> Feedup? Gee, I guess getting attacked by you for being> harsh when I was 100% supporting K&J is harsh.> I am surprised that K&J have your jewelry on their> site yet you support Mr. Mach and his attempts to use> HB for his own benefits?> So until I see either paid advertising on Hair> Boutique or links or banners on Mr. Mach's hot new> site, I am going to think that he is a pushy> opportunist using K&J and Hair Talk for his own gains> and everyone else, too bad.> I am also going to tell everyone I know not to buy> from Aurora or Mr. Mach and I will make sure to refer> them to his competitior who you do not see posting> free advertising here on Hair Talk and using K&J.> Sarah> (Who may be harsh but loves this site and thanks K&J> for all their good work AND who researchs the facts> before attacking others)
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Clare View Drop Down
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Joined: December 28 2000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:19am
WOW!! I agree with Karen: I am exhausted after reading this thread. I guess, to me, the whole point is that there IS place for advertising on HB: the announcement board, just not on the original hair talk. Pretty simple, eh?Trying to revive my energy,Clare> Okay, it's pretty clear that this thread is detracting> from the purpose of this board, and, of course, since> my messages seem to be causing some controversy, I'll> try to make this the last message I post re: No> Advertising... and just get back to talking about> hair.> Jeff & Karen, of course, can't know what my> thoughts were when I started posting. So here's what> was going through my head:> The first message, I tried not to talk about Viviscal> too much...just mention the website, thank the people> who were praising it (didn't realize that was wrong at> the time)--and offer to give people information. That> 800 number is our general number, and we spent 80% of> our time answering questions or explaining Viviscal to> people... yes, people place orders on that number, but> it was genuinely meant as an offer to help. I don't> have a personal phone; that is the number for people> to call to talk to me. As for the link to our> designer...I'm sorry. I appreciated her design, and> thought others might be interested...I figured the> worst that would happen is it would take a tenth of a> second more to read than if I hadn't added the> ".com" I'm not getting paid or getting any> bonuses for any business she picks up...she's just a> great person and a great designer, and I thought,> again, it was useful information...not an ad.> At any rate, the tone, etc., struck Karen and Jeff as> being too commercial. So they deleted it. But they> didn't tell me. And I have been having problems with> my server--many of them. So I did see the message> about not posting ads, and I thought it -might- apply> to me... but I honestly expected that I'd get some> personal warning, since I really didn't think of what> I posted as an ad; call me naive, call me a liar, but> I didn't. Still, to be on the safe side, I was much> more careful in my next post, as K&J noted; they only> found it marginally over-the-line. And right after I> sent that message, I immediately asked about> hairboutique's policies. (Yes. I probably should have> posted that message first. But I'm only human; humans> have a great blind spot when it comes to seeing> themselves in the wrong. It was, obviously, a> mistake.) Then I checked my mail, to find mail from> Jeff.> Now, I've been on this chatboard for a couple of> -days-. My website -just- went up, after several> sleepless weeks of work. I'm still correcting some of> the text, still getting feedback (and I read all of> it, and reply as best I can)... links are going to> come -last-, after I'm sure that all the information> on the site is accurate and clear, so that nobody is> mislead by it. As a matter of fact, I -am- planning to> ask Karen & Jeff if they would like to cross-link.> That's part of what brought me here...I've seen the> site a few times, but never really started looking at> it in-depth until I began looking for links.> Which brings up the other point: ADVERTISING. Okay,> first of all, we are NOT a terribly rich company. We> -can't- advertise on every great site on the> 'net...that's why I'm looking at each one very> carefully. I'm sorry, I'm not able to buy an ad on a> site that I've only just started looking at. I> certainly might want to do that soon. But not yet.> More importantly, yes, Jeff and I discussed> advertising, and I said that I had originally hoped to> do so, but I wasn't sure if it was wise. And there are> two reasons for this--both dealing with the fact that> most people here are dealing with our competitor.> First, I really do not want to get into any sort of> direct conflict with our competitor...if people here> are happy with him, and are recommending him, why> should I push my company in their faces? Honestly, I'd> rather say, "Here is our website, here is one of> our employees--what do you think?" To be honest,> too, there are several great hair sites on the 'net.> Even if I placed ads on the basis of "Which one> most deserves more money?", I STILL would be> failing to support many, many excellent, well-run,> deserving sites. And, second, to be even more> frank--Regina's reviews have our competitor's phone> number. I generally believe that intelligent consumers> -see- ads and remember company names...but will> -trust- reviewers, especially when that trust has been> earned, as Regina's has. Jeff suggested that an ad> would help people know that there Aurora is also out> there. He might be right. I -AM- thinking about it> still.> (And, by the way, even if I was CERTAIN we should put> an ad here...I'd have to have spent a while on this> site, learned a lot about it, and then given my boss a> proposal. I don't own The Aurora Group...far from it.)> Anyway...look, that's my story. If you have any> personal notes, would you e-mail them to me at> td@cybernex.net? I'm sorry that I have unwittingly> taken up so much of this board's time on what is,> really, a side-issue.> My apologies to Karen and Jeff for any inconvenience> or misunderstanding; now that you see what I was> thinking, hopefully we'll understand each other> better. :)> Now...anyone want to talk about hair? :)> What's this I hear about Viviscal working in a single> month? I--wait, let me start a new thread on that one.> *grins*> Sincerely,> Jeff Mach> P.S. In e-mail, would people tell me if they find it> offensive for me to put my website after my messages?> I'll leave it off, for now.)
Clare
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KAREN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KAREN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:19am
Hi me,As you can imagine, I am exhausted from all of this and want to just move on and go back to hair. :-)My only final comment...and I do mean final comment...is that we always notify someone when they post inappropriately and we do it by private email. So if we remove a post (which we only do rarely) we do let the person know, as Jeff did with Mach.Also, there have been times in the past when we were having our own server problems and things might not get posted on Hair Talk or there might be a delay. Hopefully that got fixed a long time ago but who knows. We are dealing with computers here. :-) Anything can and wil happen when we least expect it. LOLBest wishes, thanks for the kind words about the site. I appreciate it.Karen> The point that I say that Dawn and others were trying> to make is that:> 1. Some people on this site are quick to villify> others for inappropriateness. The end up apologizing> afterwards. Remember the H.Taylor+VIviscal thing. I'm> sure that the person who started that feels about 2> inches tall.> 2. Jeff said that he was new here. I'm sure he's seen> a lot of the viviscal (not vivisceral) posts here. And> if you look, a lot of them had links to Natural> Solutions and their number.> 3. I believe some else posted the first message about> the new Auroro Group site (even a link), and how> wonderful it was with new look, info, and links. I'm> sure his message was in response to the support he saw> for his own site.> 4. There were a few people who were asking for the> site address and phone number to orderthe product from> both sources.> 5. I'm sure in his enthusiasm he may have gone too> far. But like a lot of poeple, when I ost something> here, and I don't see it, I post again thnking that I> did sopmething wrong on my end. It would never dawn> (no pun :) on me that my message was removed.> In short. K&J were handling it in their own fair even> tempered manner. Jim apologized and worked out the> datails with K&J through private email. You'll notice> that they didn't hash it out here on the message> board. But everyone else did. I support K&J in the> endeavor to provide this board, and I have recieved a> lot of valuable info here. But you know the saying> that too many chiefs spoil the pot. Let the cheifs> handle it please.> Can't we all just get along :)> No more tempers.> Let K&J do their job. And then the rest of us can> continue to post the wonderful advice to the many> questions that I ask.:):):):)> By the way, K&J, have I thanked you two for the> wonderful job that you do here.
TAKE CARE WITH YOUR HAIR!
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Jeff Mach View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Mach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
Okay, it's pretty clear that this thread is detracting from the purpose of this board, and, of course, since my messages seem to be causing some controversy, I'll try to make this the last message I post re: No Advertising... and just get back to talking about hair.Jeff & Karen, of course, can't know what my thoughts were when I started posting. So here's what was going through my head:The first message, I tried not to talk about Viviscal too much...just mention the website, thank the people who were praising it (didn't realize that was wrong at the time)--and offer to give people information. That 800 number is our general number, and we spent 80% of our time answering questions or explaining Viviscal to people... yes, people place orders on that number, but it was genuinely meant as an offer to help. I don't have a personal phone; that is the number for people to call to talk to me. As for the link to our designer...I'm sorry. I appreciated her design, and thought others might be interested...I figured the worst that would happen is it would take a tenth of a second more to read than if I hadn't added the ".com" I'm not getting paid or getting any bonuses for any business she picks up...she's just a great person and a great designer, and I thought, again, it was useful information...not an ad.At any rate, the tone, etc., struck Karen and Jeff as being too commercial. So they deleted it. But they didn't tell me. And I have been having problems with my server--many of them. So I did see the message about not posting ads, and I thought it -might- apply to me... but I honestly expected that I'd get some personal warning, since I really didn't think of what I posted as an ad; call me naive, call me a liar, but I didn't. Still, to be on the safe side, I was much more careful in my next post, as K&J noted; they only found it marginally over-the-line. And right after I sent that message, I immediately asked about hairboutique's policies. (Yes. I probably should have posted that message first. But I'm only human; humans have a great blind spot when it comes to seeing themselves in the wrong. It was, obviously, a mistake.) Then I checked my mail, to find mail from Jeff.Now, I've been on this chatboard for a couple of -days-. My website -just- went up, after several sleepless weeks of work. I'm still correcting some of the text, still getting feedback (and I read all of it, and reply as best I can)... links are going to come -last-, after I'm sure that all the information on the site is accurate and clear, so that nobody is mislead by it. As a matter of fact, I -am- planning to ask Karen & Jeff if they would like to cross-link. That's part of what brought me here...I've seen the site a few times, but never really started looking at it in-depth until I began looking for links.Which brings up the other point: ADVERTISING. Okay, first of all, we are NOT a terribly rich company. We -can't- advertise on every great site on the 'net...that's why I'm looking at each one very carefully. I'm sorry, I'm not able to buy an ad on a site that I've only just started looking at. I certainly might want to do that soon. But not yet.More importantly, yes, Jeff and I discussed advertising, and I said that I had originally hoped to do so, but I wasn't sure if it was wise. And there are two reasons for this--both dealing with the fact that most people here are dealing with our competitor. First, I really do not want to get into any sort of direct conflict with our competitor...if people here are happy with him, and are recommending him, why should I push my company in their faces? Honestly, I'd rather say, "Here is our website, here is one of our employees--what do you think?" To be honest, too, there are several great hair sites on the 'net. Even if I placed ads on the basis of "Which one most deserves more money?", I STILL would be failing to support many, many excellent, well-run, deserving sites. And, second, to be even more frank--Regina's reviews have our competitor's phone number. I generally believe that intelligent consumers -see- ads and remember company names...but will -trust- reviewers, especially when that trust has been earned, as Regina's has. Jeff suggested that an ad would help people know that there Aurora is also out there. He might be right. I -AM- thinking about it still.(And, by the way, even if I was CERTAIN we should put an ad here...I'd have to have spent a while on this site, learned a lot about it, and then given my boss a proposal. I don't own The Aurora Group...far from it.)Anyway...look, that's my story. If you have any personal notes, would you e-mail them to me at td@cybernex.net? I'm sorry that I have unwittingly taken up so much of this board's time on what is, really, a side-issue.My apologies to Karen and Jeff for any inconvenience or misunderstanding; now that you see what I was thinking, hopefully we'll understand each other better. :)Now...anyone want to talk about hair? :)What's this I hear about Viviscal working in a single month? I--wait, let me start a new thread on that one. *grins*Sincerely,Jeff MachP.S. In e-mail, would people tell me if they find it offensive for me to put my website after my messages? I'll leave it off, for now.)
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me View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
The point that I say that Dawn and others were trying to make is that:1. Some people on this site are quick to villify others for inappropriateness. The end up apologizing afterwards. Remember the H.Taylor+VIviscal thing. I'm sure that the person who started that feels about 2 inches tall.2. Jeff said that he was new here. I'm sure he's seen a lot of the viviscal (not vivisceral) posts here. And if you look, a lot of them had links to Natural Solutions and their number.3. I believe some else posted the first message about the new Auroro Group site (even a link), and how wonderful it was with new look, info, and links. I'm sure his message was in response to the support he saw for his own site.4. There were a few people who were asking for the site address and phone number to orderthe product from both sources.5. I'm sure in his enthusiasm he may have gone too far. But like a lot of poeple, when I ost something here, and I don't see it, I post again thnking that I did sopmething wrong on my end. It would never dawn (no pun :) on me that my message was removed.In short. K&J were handling it in their own fair even tempered manner. Jim apologized and worked out the datails with K&J through private email. You'll notice that they didn't hash it out here on the message board. But everyone else did. I support K&J in the endeavor to provide this board, and I have recieved a lot of valuable info here. But you know the saying that too many chiefs spoil the pot. Let the cheifs handle it please.Can't we all just get along :)No more tempers.Let K&J do their job. And then the rest of us can continue to post the wonderful advice to the many questions that I ask.:):):):)By the way, K&J, have I thanked you two for the wonderful job that you do here.Related Link:I like the product so here's the link
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lisa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
EXCUSE ME BUT MAYBE MACH DID NOT KNOW THAT HE COULD NOT ADVERTISE ANY OF HIS PRODUCTS. HE DID APOLOGIZE! DID HE NOT. I DO RECALL HIM POSTING A MESSAGE BACK TO KAREN ASKING WHAT HE CAN AND CANNOT DO. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY MORE POSTINGS OF HIM URGING PEOPLE TO BUY HIS PRODUCTS. MAYBE HE THOUGHT HE WAS BEING HELPFUL BY REFERRING AND LEAVING A NUMBER FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTED IN BUYING HIS PRODUCTS. I THINK EVERYONE OWES HIM AN APOLOGY.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
> I totally agree with you!!!!!!!!> People on this site can be VERY rude at timesLizzie,What you and Heather are missing is that the guy (from Aurora) in question was being rude by posting advertisements inappropriately on the board and after Karen & Jeff removed the first one, he posted right back again.No one was being rude except that guy.For the most part people are very kind and loving on this site. I have never found anyone to be rude whatsoever.Toni
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H. Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
> Thank you Karen. As always, you tell the truth and> never hide behind anything.> I understand why you and Jeff are concerned> and I for one really appreciate it. Thank you for> everything you do and for the site. It is the best one> around for hair.Perfectly put, Jeanette! :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lizzie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
I totally agree with you!!!!!!!!People on this site can be VERY rude at times>I THINK SARA WAS TO HARD ON THAT GUY. YOU DONT KNOW> HIM, AND YOU CUT HIM DOWN PRETTY BAD. IM NOT SAYING HE> WAS RIGHT. I DONT THINK HE SHOULD PUSH ANYTHING HE> SELLS ON THIS SITE. KAREN WAS TAKING CARE OF IT. I> THINK THIS SITE IS WONDERFUL. I POSTED A MESSAGE ONE> OTHER TIME ABOUT A HOME HAIR TREATMENT AND SPELLED> SOME THINGS WRONG AND SOME ONE RESPONDED MORE ABOUT MY> SPELLING THAN MY QUESTION. IT MADE ME FELL SO STUPID> THAT THIS IS THE ONLY OTHER POST I HAVE MADE. LETS> STICK TO HAIR, AND NOT CUTING DOWN PEOPLE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeanette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
Thank you Karen. As always, you tell the truth and never hide behind anything.I used to post on another message board and it became overrun with advertisers promoting (subletly in their opinions) their products. Everyone got tired of it. So they left. I understand why you and Jeff are concerned and I for one really appreciate it. Thank you for everything you do and for the site. It is the best one around for hair.> Hi Sarah & Dawn & all,> I think some things need to be clarified here.> Yes, Jeff Mach did post 2 previous messages on Hair> Talk that were removed immediately by Jeff Hines and> I.> The first message contained an 800 number to call for> the product he sells as well as a link to a person who> creates websites as a busines. The message was about> Jeff Mach's product & new website and contained a> specific link to his site.> Jeff Hines & I deleted Jeff Mach's message and> then posted the current request that advertising not> be put on this board.> Jeff Hines and I created the Announcements Board a> long time ago for the type of posts that Jeff Mach> posted the very first time on Hair Talk. It was> totally inappropriate for this board and it was> immediately removed.> Jeff Mach posted a second message that still included> the mini advertisement with the address for the person> who did his web site and still (in Jeff Hines & my> opinion) some marginal advertising. Again it included> a link to his site.> Jeff Hines sent Jeff Mach a private email asking him> to please modify his posts appropriately for Hair Talk> OR post on the Announcement board. At that time Jeff> Hines asked Jeff Mach if he would like to advertise on> Hair Boutique.> Jeff Mach posted a third post (which is the one that> is currently here) asking for guidelines.> Jeff Mach also sent a private email to Jeff Hines> which implied that he would not be interested in> advertising on Hair Boutique.> Jeff Hines then worked out some guidelines with Jeff> Mach about what is appropriate for posting on Hair> Talk.> To clarify..............................> This set of guidelines in no way indicates that either> Jeff Hines or I are supporting or promoting Jeff Mach> or his product or his site. It is just an agreement of> what can be posted appropriately. If Jeff Mach> violates those guidelines, his posts will be deleted.> For further clarification, Jeff Mach has not offered> Hair Boutique either a link on his new site or a> banner.> Hair Boutique exchanges links and banners with> hundreds of sites. That is a way to show mutual> support that many Internet sites do for each other. So> when you go to Salon Web and see a banner from Hair> Boutique you can then come back here and see a Salon> Web banner.> That is also why sites share links with each other. To> show support and mutual advertising. Most sites try to> help each other and help their visitors by cross> linking and doing cross banners.> As Sarah stated, Jeff Hines and I pay for Hair> Boutique out of our own pockets. We always have. From> day one.> As some of you know, Jeff and I own a software> company. You will not see any mention of that company> on Hair Boutique anywhere (no advertising) nor will> you even see a link to our software site. However,> from the profits of that company, we support Hair> Boutique.> We do receive a small percentage of funding from our> sponsors who are the kind people who pay for the> limited number of banners that "float" on> our site. We also make a very small commission from> any Amazon.com books we sell on the site and of> course, we make commission from Dawn's jewelry.> All of those commissions do not come close to paying> for even 1/2 of the monthly costs for HB. It helps,> but Jeff and I pay for everything ourselves. For the> articles that we buy, I pay for them out of my own> personal checking account.> So Sarah is completely accurate when she says that the> site is paid for by Jeff and myself. That is 100%> true.> When you buy books or jewelry from this site, you are> supporting the HB site. That is also true. When you> click on the banners of our sponsors, we receive a> small percentage of advertising revenue.> Jeff Hines and I also pay for advertising. We pay some> other sites so much money for clicks on our banners.> We also pay for other advertising in the form of> special banner ads.> Jeff Hines and I hope someday that Hair Boutique will> break even. We are committed to keeping the site open> and providing the highest quality and content> possible.> In a lot of ways, we are like your local church club> that has bake sales to raise money or car washes. We> are not here to make a lot of money. We do like to> make enough to help a little bit.> Jeff Hines and I do Hair Boutique because we love it> and we enjoy all the visitors and the people that we> work with from other sites. Some of the other> webmasters like Mike at Salon Web and Marci at Marci's> Retro and Frank at The Long Hair Site are some of the> best people around. They have all helped us and> supported us by posting banners or special links on> their sites.> This whole thread of controversy is just another> reason why we try and keep advertising off of this> board. Everyone gets very upset and Jeff Hines and I> receive lots of private email from visitors about the> topic.> I understand why Sarah is so upset and I understand> that Dawn may not have had all the facts.> If Jeff Mach wants to share information that is not> advertising & does not push his product> specifically that is great.> If he wants to show support of HB and buy advertising> for his product, we would welcome him like we do> others. HB does not accept advertising for products we> do not believe in. However, Jeff Mach's product is a> hair related product and seems to be a good choice> according to some feedback.> I would also be happy to exchange links or banners> with Jeff Mach and his site. However, my first> priority, along with Jeff Hines is to provide the> highest quality site for all of our loyal visitors.> There would be no HB without all of you and your> ongoing support and contributions. Jeff Hines and I> know that and appreciate that and we thank you so> much.> It is rare for Jeff Hine and I to censor this board,> as you all know, however, we will always try to do> what is best for everyone.> Thank you Sarah for your support. Thank you Dawn for> sharing your thoughts.> Best wishes to everyone.> Karen
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Jeanette View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeanette Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
Hi Heather,I admire Sarah for her passion and willingness to express how she feels about her opinions. I saw the first two messages that Mach posted on Hair Talk and the first one had his 800 number and hard core advertising of his products. I think Sarah felt bad for Karen & Jeff and all of us who post regularly on Hair Talk. I admire her loyalty to all of us here.If you saw the first post you would probably understand better why Sarah was so upset. She had a right to be.Glad to see you posting here. Come back more often.Jeanette> I THINK SARA WAS TO HARD ON THAT GUY. YOU DONT KNOW> HIM, AND YOU CUT HIM DOWN PRETTY BAD. IM NOT SAYING HE> WAS RIGHT. I DONT THINK HE SHOULD PUSH ANYTHING HE> SELLS ON THIS SITE. KAREN WAS TAKING CARE OF IT. I> THINK THIS SITE IS WONDERFUL. I POSTED A MESSAGE ONE> OTHER TIME ABOUT A HOME HAIR TREATMENT AND SPELLED> SOME THINGS WRONG AND SOME ONE RESPONDED MORE ABOUT MY> SPELLING THAN MY QUESTION. IT MADE ME FELL SO STUPID> THAT THIS IS THE ONLY OTHER POST I HAVE MADE. LETS> STICK TO HAIR, AND NOT CUTING DOWN PEOPLE.
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Karen Shelton View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karen Shelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
Hi Sarah & Dawn & all,I think some things need to be clarified here.Yes, Jeff Mach did post 2 previous messages on Hair Talk that were removed immediately by Jeff Hines and I.The first message contained an 800 number to call for the product he sells as well as a link to a person who creates websites as a busines. The message was about Jeff Mach's product & new website and contained a specific link to his site.Jeff Hines & I deleted Jeff Mach's message and then posted the current request that advertising not be put on this board.Jeff Hines and I created the Announcements Board a long time ago for the type of posts that Jeff Mach posted the very first time on Hair Talk. It was totally inappropriate for this board and it was immediately removed.Jeff Mach posted a second message that still included the mini advertisement with the address for the person who did his web site and still (in Jeff Hines & my opinion) some marginal advertising. Again it included a link to his site.Jeff Hines sent Jeff Mach a private email asking him to please modify his posts appropriately for Hair Talk OR post on the Announcement board. At that time Jeff Hines asked Jeff Mach if he would like to advertise on Hair Boutique.Jeff Mach posted a third post (which is the one that is currently here) asking for guidelines.Jeff Mach also sent a private email to Jeff Hines which implied that he would not be interested in advertising on Hair Boutique.Jeff Hines then worked out some guidelines with Jeff Mach about what is appropriate for posting on Hair Talk.To clarify..............................This set of guidelines in no way indicates that either Jeff Hines or I are supporting or promoting Jeff Mach or his product or his site. It is just an agreement of what can be posted appropriately. If Jeff Mach violates those guidelines, his posts will be deleted.For further clarification, Jeff Mach has not offered Hair Boutique either a link on his new site or a banner.Hair Boutique exchanges links and banners with hundreds of sites. That is a way to show mutual support that many Internet sites do for each other. So when you go to Salon Web and see a banner from Hair Boutique you can then come back here and see a Salon Web banner.That is also why sites share links with each other. To show support and mutual advertising. Most sites try to help each other and help their visitors by cross linking and doing cross banners.As Sarah stated, Jeff Hines and I pay for Hair Boutique out of our own pockets. We always have. From day one.As some of you know, Jeff and I own a software company. You will not see any mention of that company on Hair Boutique anywhere (no advertising) nor will you even see a link to our software site. However, from the profits of that company, we support Hair Boutique.We do receive a small percentage of funding from our sponsors who are the kind people who pay for the limited number of banners that "float" on our site. We also make a very small commission from any Amazon.com books we sell on the site and of course, we make commission from Dawn's jewelry.All of those commissions do not come close to paying for even 1/2 of the monthly costs for HB. It helps, but Jeff and I pay for everything ourselves. For the articles that we buy, I pay for them out of my own personal checking account.So Sarah is completely accurate when she says that the site is paid for by Jeff and myself. That is 100% true.When you buy books or jewelry from this site, you are supporting the HB site. That is also true. When you click on the banners of our sponsors, we receive a small percentage of advertising revenue.Jeff Hines and I also pay for advertising. We pay some other sites so much money for clicks on our banners. We also pay for other advertising in the form of special banner ads.Jeff Hines and I hope someday that Hair Boutique will break even. We are committed to keeping the site open and providing the highest quality and content possible.In a lot of ways, we are like your local church club that has bake sales to raise money or car washes. We are not here to make a lot of money. We do like to make enough to help a little bit.Jeff Hines and I do Hair Boutique because we love it and we enjoy all the visitors and the people that we work with from other sites. Some of the other webmasters like Mike at Salon Web and Marci at Marci's Retro and Frank at The Long Hair Site are some of the best people around. They have all helped us and supported us by posting banners or special links on their sites.This whole thread of controversy is just another reason why we try and keep advertising off of this board. Everyone gets very upset and Jeff Hines and I receive lots of private email from visitors about the topic.I understand why Sarah is so upset and I understand that Dawn may not have had all the facts.If Jeff Mach wants to share information that is not advertising & does not push his product specifically that is great.If he wants to show support of HB and buy advertising for his product, we would welcome him like we do others. HB does not accept advertising for products we do not believe in. However, Jeff Mach's product is a hair related product and seems to be a good choice according to some feedback.I would also be happy to exchange links or banners with Jeff Mach and his site. However, my first priority, along with Jeff Hines is to provide the highest quality site for all of our loyal visitors.There would be no HB without all of you and your ongoing support and contributions. Jeff Hines and I know that and appreciate that and we thank you so much.It is rare for Jeff Hine and I to censor this board, as you all know, however, we will always try to do what is best for everyone.Thank you Sarah for your support. Thank you Dawn for sharing your thoughts.Best wishes to everyone.Karen> Dear Dawn,> Harsh? You of all people should understand about not> advertising since you have been very good about not> advertising your hair jewelry here but providing> honest feedback. I used to appreciate that very much.> What about supporting Karen & Jeff?> They pay for this site out of their own money. If Mr.> Mach wants to provide information about his product> why does he not pay to advertise on this site?> This could have shown support for the HB site where> Mr. Mach hopes to sell his products to the many many> visitors who come here every day. Which K&J pay to> advertise about so that lots of visitors do come here.> Has Mr. Mach chosen to pay for advertising? Well I> doubt it. If he had, where are the banners? Where are> the paid ads?> Instead, it appears that Mr. Mach wants to use Hair> Talk for his own agenda.> Why pay K&J to help with the costs of Hair Boutique> when he can just take over the Hair Talk board and> post all about his products? For free. And act like he> is doing a service to boot. You know, I am screwing> over Hair Boutique and Hair Talk, but hey, I just want> to help.> Dawn, I guess Karen & Jeff are social workers who> should pay for Hair Boutique out of their own money> and let people like Mr. Mach just post his> advertisements for free. Is that what you are want?> Well if that is it, yes, you are right, I was> extremely harsh and I apologize for supporting Karen> & Jeff.> Dawn, did you know that there were two previous> messages that were immediately removed from Hair Talk> BEFORE the current round? Did you check into that> first before you accused me of being harsh and taking> Mr. Mach's side?> Mr. Mach posted the name of the web company that did> his new site and a link to them, he thanked a lot of> people for buying his product, and may I mention, he> makes sure to post a link to his site on EVERY single> one of his posts. Free advertising?> I guess I was wrong.> If you go to Mr. Mach's site, there are no links or> banners to other sites. Nothing about Hair Boutique or> Hair Talk anywhere.> So Mr. Mach feels free to take over Hair Talk and post> all about his new site and his great webmaster and his> great product but where is there any mention of any> other companies or other products OR other websites> like Hair Boutique? Nowhere.> Harsh? Yes, I guess I am.> Feedup? Gee, I guess getting attacked by you for being> harsh when I was 100% supporting K&J is harsh.> I am surprised that K&J have your jewelry on their> site yet you support Mr. Mach and his attempts to use> HB for his own benefits?> So until I see either paid advertising on Hair> Boutique or links or banners on Mr. Mach's hot new> site, I am going to think that he is a pushy> opportunist using K&J and Hair Talk for his own gains> and everyone else, too bad.> I am also going to tell everyone I know not to buy> from Aurora or Mr. Mach and I will make sure to refer> them to his competitior who you do not see posting> free advertising here on Hair Talk and using K&J.> Sarah> (Who may be harsh but loves this site and thanks K&J> for all their good work AND who researchs the facts> before attacking others)
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger or drives you totally insane. :-)
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heather View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heather Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:17am
I THINK SARA WAS TO HARD ON THAT GUY. YOU DONT KNOW HIM, AND YOU CUT HIM DOWN PRETTY BAD. IM NOT SAYING HE WAS RIGHT. I DONT THINK HE SHOULD PUSH ANYTHING HE SELLS ON THIS SITE. KAREN WAS TAKING CARE OF IT. I THINK THIS SITE IS WONDERFUL. I POSTED A MESSAGE ONE OTHER TIME ABOUT A HOME HAIR TREATMENT AND SPELLED SOME THINGS WRONG AND SOME ONE RESPONDED MORE ABOUT MY SPELLING THAN MY QUESTION. IT MADE ME FELL SO STUPID THAT THIS IS THE ONLY OTHER POST I HAVE MADE. LETS STICK TO HAIR, AND NOT CUTING DOWN PEOPLE.
Heather
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:17am
Dear Dawn,Harsh? You of all people should understand about not advertising since you have been very good about not advertising your hair jewelry here but providing honest feedback. I used to appreciate that very much.What about supporting Karen & Jeff?They pay for this site out of their own money. If Mr. Mach wants to provide information about his product why does he not pay to advertise on this site?This could have shown support for the HB site where Mr. Mach hopes to sell his products to the many many visitors who come here every day. Which K&J pay to advertise about so that lots of visitors do come here.Has Mr. Mach chosen to pay for advertising? Well I doubt it. If he had, where are the banners? Where are the paid ads?Instead, it appears that Mr. Mach wants to use Hair Talk for his own agenda.Why pay K&J to help with the costs of Hair Boutique when he can just take over the Hair Talk board and post all about his products? For free. And act like he is doing a service to boot. You know, I am screwing over Hair Boutique and Hair Talk, but hey, I just want to help.Dawn, I guess Karen & Jeff are social workers who should pay for Hair Boutique out of their own money and let people like Mr. Mach just post his advertisements for free. Is that what you are want?Well if that is it, yes, you are right, I was extremely harsh and I apologize for supporting Karen & Jeff.Dawn, did you know that there were two previous messages that were immediately removed from Hair Talk BEFORE the current round? Did you check into that first before you accused me of being harsh and taking Mr. Mach's side?Mr. Mach posted the name of the web company that did his new site and a link to them, he thanked a lot of people for buying his product, and may I mention, he makes sure to post a link to his site on EVERY single one of his posts. Free advertising?I guess I was wrong.If you go to Mr. Mach's site, there are no links or banners to other sites. Nothing about Hair Boutique or Hair Talk anywhere.So Mr. Mach feels free to take over Hair Talk and post all about his new site and his great webmaster and his great product but where is there any mention of any other companies or other products OR other websites like Hair Boutique? Nowhere.Harsh? Yes, I guess I am.Feedup? Gee, I guess getting attacked by you for being harsh when I was 100% supporting K&J is harsh.I am surprised that K&J have your jewelry on their site yet you support Mr. Mach and his attempts to use HB for his own benefits?So until I see either paid advertising on Hair Boutique or links or banners on Mr. Mach's hot new site, I am going to think that he is a pushy opportunist using K&J and Hair Talk for his own gains and everyone else, too bad.I am also going to tell everyone I know not to buy from Aurora or Mr. Mach and I will make sure to refer them to his competitior who you do not see posting free advertising here on Hair Talk and using K&J.Sarah(Who may be harsh but loves this site and thanks K&J for all their good work AND who researchs the facts before attacking others)> Sarah, I feel your view of Jeff Mach was very harsh.> If you would search the message boards for the past> two months you would see that in that time he has only> posted 3 messages and they were all posted today. I> feel as though his posting to Karen and Jeff was very> reasonable, asking what he could and could not say. He> really didn't have to be as> honest as he was. I have read all the postings here> and even the everday people can't help but sound like> an advertisement sometimes. I even wonder who isn't> here posting undercover sometimes and I appreciate his> honesty. I understand this posting, no one likes to be> spammed. Does anyone else feel that Jeff left a pushy> posting? Am I naive?
Sarah Brooke
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Mach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:17am
> As to what Sarah was refering to... There was a couple> of messages posted earlier that we have already> removed.> Jeff & Karen> The Hair Boutique*Jeff smiles*Yes, J&K have a very interesting concept of what is and isn't commercial, and it took some communication for us to realize we both wanted the same things: a chance to encourage open discussion, without people having to worry that someone was going to lead into a sales pitch. As for whether or not I actually -am- pushy, Sarah...well, I plan to be around here for a while, talking...and that's the best way to find out what I'm like, and what kind of people my company hires. Which brings us to the most important thing:Let's talk! It seems we have a great mix here... we have lots of people who are interested in hair products; people who sell those products; experts, professionals, and people who just want to look good...and, of course, the ubiquitous Jeff & Karen. I look forward to learning a lot from everyone!And...be gentle with me. I'm new here. :) If I do something that might be appropriate elsewhere, but isn't, here--just let me know.Related Link:Viviscal
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Oops. . .I keep missing these posts before they're removed! :) Anyway, I hope people are honest and if they have any agendas other than helping others with hair care (as opposed to filling their own pockets), that they open up their own website and advertise there. I know that I'm gung ho on Viviscal (if I could only remember to take it lately!) because of the effects I've seen on my hair -- there seems to be a Viviscal "fan club" going! -- but I'm certainly not affiliated with any of the hair supply companies, and I'm willing to bet money that nobody else (Regina, Ally, and the others) is, either. We shouldn't mistake enthusiasm for agenda. . .and Karen and Jeff are doing an awesome job of seeing which is which!> We have been in contact with Jeff Mach of The Aurora> Group and we have reached an understanding as to what> is appropriate and what is not appropriate.> As to what Sarah was refering to... There was a couple> of messages posted earlier that we have already> removed.> Jeff & Karen> The Hair Boutique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H. Taylor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:17am
I have read all the postings here> and even the everday people can't help but sound like> an advertisement sometimes. I even wonder who isn't> here posting undercover sometimes and I appreciate his> honesty.I have only heard of one situation where somebody was "undercover," and I don't think that was in working for a company but rather posting under various e-mail addresses. I think that if somebody *is* working for a company, like Aurora or Natural Hair Solutions, some honesty would be refreshing. I chose to get Viviscal because of all the incredible posts I saw about it, and I'd hate to think that they weren't honest -- or, rather, the results reported are accurate (I've seen that for myself), but that the people were really employees of the companies. That would have completely turned me off!!! So, like you, I appreciate Jeff's honesty, as well as Karen and Jeff's attempts to keep this site spam-free. I don't think Jeff's post was pushy in the least -- as you wrote, he didn't even have to come forward with this.I understand this posting, no one likes to be> spammed. Does anyone else feel that Jeff left a pushy> posting? Am I naive?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Hair Boutique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:17am
Dawn,We have been in contact with Jeff Mach of The Aurora Group and we have reached an understanding as to what is appropriate and what is not appropriate.As to what Sarah was refering to... There was a couple of messages posted earlier that we have already removed.Jeff & KarenThe Hair Boutique
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:17am
Sarah, I feel your view of Jeff Mach was very harsh. If you would search the message boards for the past two months you would see that in that time he has only posted 3 messages and they were all posted today. I feel as though his posting to Karen and Jeff was very reasonable, asking what he could and could not say. He really didn't have to be ashonest as he was. I have read all the postings here and even the everday people can't help but sound like an advertisement sometimes. I even wonder who isn't here posting undercover sometimes and I appreciate his honesty. I understand this posting, no one likes to be spammed. Does anyone else feel that Jeff left a pushy posting? Am I naive?
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