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Jeff Mach View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff Mach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:18am
Okay, it's pretty clear that this thread is detracting from the purpose of this board, and, of course, since my messages seem to be causing some controversy, I'll try to make this the last message I post re: No Advertising... and just get back to talking about hair.Jeff & Karen, of course, can't know what my thoughts were when I started posting. So here's what was going through my head:The first message, I tried not to talk about Viviscal too much...just mention the website, thank the people who were praising it (didn't realize that was wrong at the time)--and offer to give people information. That 800 number is our general number, and we spent 80% of our time answering questions or explaining Viviscal to people... yes, people place orders on that number, but it was genuinely meant as an offer to help. I don't have a personal phone; that is the number for people to call to talk to me. As for the link to our designer...I'm sorry. I appreciated her design, and thought others might be interested...I figured the worst that would happen is it would take a tenth of a second more to read than if I hadn't added the ".com" I'm not getting paid or getting any bonuses for any business she picks up...she's just a great person and a great designer, and I thought, again, it was useful information...not an ad.At any rate, the tone, etc., struck Karen and Jeff as being too commercial. So they deleted it. But they didn't tell me. And I have been having problems with my server--many of them. So I did see the message about not posting ads, and I thought it -might- apply to me... but I honestly expected that I'd get some personal warning, since I really didn't think of what I posted as an ad; call me naive, call me a liar, but I didn't. Still, to be on the safe side, I was much more careful in my next post, as K&J noted; they only found it marginally over-the-line. And right after I sent that message, I immediately asked about hairboutique's policies. (Yes. I probably should have posted that message first. But I'm only human; humans have a great blind spot when it comes to seeing themselves in the wrong. It was, obviously, a mistake.) Then I checked my mail, to find mail from Jeff.Now, I've been on this chatboard for a couple of -days-. My website -just- went up, after several sleepless weeks of work. I'm still correcting some of the text, still getting feedback (and I read all of it, and reply as best I can)... links are going to come -last-, after I'm sure that all the information on the site is accurate and clear, so that nobody is mislead by it. As a matter of fact, I -am- planning to ask Karen & Jeff if they would like to cross-link. That's part of what brought me here...I've seen the site a few times, but never really started looking at it in-depth until I began looking for links.Which brings up the other point: ADVERTISING. Okay, first of all, we are NOT a terribly rich company. We -can't- advertise on every great site on the 'net...that's why I'm looking at each one very carefully. I'm sorry, I'm not able to buy an ad on a site that I've only just started looking at. I certainly might want to do that soon. But not yet.More importantly, yes, Jeff and I discussed advertising, and I said that I had originally hoped to do so, but I wasn't sure if it was wise. And there are two reasons for this--both dealing with the fact that most people here are dealing with our competitor. First, I really do not want to get into any sort of direct conflict with our competitor...if people here are happy with him, and are recommending him, why should I push my company in their faces? Honestly, I'd rather say, "Here is our website, here is one of our employees--what do you think?" To be honest, too, there are several great hair sites on the 'net. Even if I placed ads on the basis of "Which one most deserves more money?", I STILL would be failing to support many, many excellent, well-run, deserving sites. And, second, to be even more frank--Regina's reviews have our competitor's phone number. I generally believe that intelligent consumers -see- ads and remember company names...but will -trust- reviewers, especially when that trust has been earned, as Regina's has. Jeff suggested that an ad would help people know that there Aurora is also out there. He might be right. I -AM- thinking about it still.(And, by the way, even if I was CERTAIN we should put an ad here...I'd have to have spent a while on this site, learned a lot about it, and then given my boss a proposal. I don't own The Aurora Group...far from it.)Anyway...look, that's my story. If you have any personal notes, would you e-mail them to me at td@cybernex.net? I'm sorry that I have unwittingly taken up so much of this board's time on what is, really, a side-issue.My apologies to Karen and Jeff for any inconvenience or misunderstanding; now that you see what I was thinking, hopefully we'll understand each other better. :)Now...anyone want to talk about hair? :)What's this I hear about Viviscal working in a single month? I--wait, let me start a new thread on that one. *grins*Sincerely,Jeff MachP.S. In e-mail, would people tell me if they find it offensive for me to put my website after my messages? I'll leave it off, for now.)
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KAREN View Drop Down
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Joined: May 30 2002
Location: CALIFORNIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KAREN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:19am
Hi me,As you can imagine, I am exhausted from all of this and want to just move on and go back to hair. :-)My only final comment...and I do mean final comment...is that we always notify someone when they post inappropriately and we do it by private email. So if we remove a post (which we only do rarely) we do let the person know, as Jeff did with Mach.Also, there have been times in the past when we were having our own server problems and things might not get posted on Hair Talk or there might be a delay. Hopefully that got fixed a long time ago but who knows. We are dealing with computers here. :-) Anything can and wil happen when we least expect it. LOLBest wishes, thanks for the kind words about the site. I appreciate it.Karen> The point that I say that Dawn and others were trying> to make is that:> 1. Some people on this site are quick to villify> others for inappropriateness. The end up apologizing> afterwards. Remember the H.Taylor+VIviscal thing. I'm> sure that the person who started that feels about 2> inches tall.> 2. Jeff said that he was new here. I'm sure he's seen> a lot of the viviscal (not vivisceral) posts here. And> if you look, a lot of them had links to Natural> Solutions and their number.> 3. I believe some else posted the first message about> the new Auroro Group site (even a link), and how> wonderful it was with new look, info, and links. I'm> sure his message was in response to the support he saw> for his own site.> 4. There were a few people who were asking for the> site address and phone number to orderthe product from> both sources.> 5. I'm sure in his enthusiasm he may have gone too> far. But like a lot of poeple, when I ost something> here, and I don't see it, I post again thnking that I> did sopmething wrong on my end. It would never dawn> (no pun :) on me that my message was removed.> In short. K&J were handling it in their own fair even> tempered manner. Jim apologized and worked out the> datails with K&J through private email. You'll notice> that they didn't hash it out here on the message> board. But everyone else did. I support K&J in the> endeavor to provide this board, and I have recieved a> lot of valuable info here. But you know the saying> that too many chiefs spoil the pot. Let the cheifs> handle it please.> Can't we all just get along :)> No more tempers.> Let K&J do their job. And then the rest of us can> continue to post the wonderful advice to the many> questions that I ask.:):):):)> By the way, K&J, have I thanked you two for the> wonderful job that you do here.
TAKE CARE WITH YOUR HAIR!
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Clare View Drop Down
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Joined: December 28 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:19am
WOW!! I agree with Karen: I am exhausted after reading this thread. I guess, to me, the whole point is that there IS place for advertising on HB: the announcement board, just not on the original hair talk. Pretty simple, eh?Trying to revive my energy,Clare> Okay, it's pretty clear that this thread is detracting> from the purpose of this board, and, of course, since> my messages seem to be causing some controversy, I'll> try to make this the last message I post re: No> Advertising... and just get back to talking about> hair.> Jeff & Karen, of course, can't know what my> thoughts were when I started posting. So here's what> was going through my head:> The first message, I tried not to talk about Viviscal> too much...just mention the website, thank the people> who were praising it (didn't realize that was wrong at> the time)--and offer to give people information. That> 800 number is our general number, and we spent 80% of> our time answering questions or explaining Viviscal to> people... yes, people place orders on that number, but> it was genuinely meant as an offer to help. I don't> have a personal phone; that is the number for people> to call to talk to me. As for the link to our> designer...I'm sorry. I appreciated her design, and> thought others might be interested...I figured the> worst that would happen is it would take a tenth of a> second more to read than if I hadn't added the> ".com" I'm not getting paid or getting any> bonuses for any business she picks up...she's just a> great person and a great designer, and I thought,> again, it was useful information...not an ad.> At any rate, the tone, etc., struck Karen and Jeff as> being too commercial. So they deleted it. But they> didn't tell me. And I have been having problems with> my server--many of them. So I did see the message> about not posting ads, and I thought it -might- apply> to me... but I honestly expected that I'd get some> personal warning, since I really didn't think of what> I posted as an ad; call me naive, call me a liar, but> I didn't. Still, to be on the safe side, I was much> more careful in my next post, as K&J noted; they only> found it marginally over-the-line. And right after I> sent that message, I immediately asked about> hairboutique's policies. (Yes. I probably should have> posted that message first. But I'm only human; humans> have a great blind spot when it comes to seeing> themselves in the wrong. It was, obviously, a> mistake.) Then I checked my mail, to find mail from> Jeff.> Now, I've been on this chatboard for a couple of> -days-. My website -just- went up, after several> sleepless weeks of work. I'm still correcting some of> the text, still getting feedback (and I read all of> it, and reply as best I can)... links are going to> come -last-, after I'm sure that all the information> on the site is accurate and clear, so that nobody is> mislead by it. As a matter of fact, I -am- planning to> ask Karen & Jeff if they would like to cross-link.> That's part of what brought me here...I've seen the> site a few times, but never really started looking at> it in-depth until I began looking for links.> Which brings up the other point: ADVERTISING. Okay,> first of all, we are NOT a terribly rich company. We> -can't- advertise on every great site on the> 'net...that's why I'm looking at each one very> carefully. I'm sorry, I'm not able to buy an ad on a> site that I've only just started looking at. I> certainly might want to do that soon. But not yet.> More importantly, yes, Jeff and I discussed> advertising, and I said that I had originally hoped to> do so, but I wasn't sure if it was wise. And there are> two reasons for this--both dealing with the fact that> most people here are dealing with our competitor.> First, I really do not want to get into any sort of> direct conflict with our competitor...if people here> are happy with him, and are recommending him, why> should I push my company in their faces? Honestly, I'd> rather say, "Here is our website, here is one of> our employees--what do you think?" To be honest,> too, there are several great hair sites on the 'net.> Even if I placed ads on the basis of "Which one> most deserves more money?", I STILL would be> failing to support many, many excellent, well-run,> deserving sites. And, second, to be even more> frank--Regina's reviews have our competitor's phone> number. I generally believe that intelligent consumers> -see- ads and remember company names...but will> -trust- reviewers, especially when that trust has been> earned, as Regina's has. Jeff suggested that an ad> would help people know that there Aurora is also out> there. He might be right. I -AM- thinking about it> still.> (And, by the way, even if I was CERTAIN we should put> an ad here...I'd have to have spent a while on this> site, learned a lot about it, and then given my boss a> proposal. I don't own The Aurora Group...far from it.)> Anyway...look, that's my story. If you have any> personal notes, would you e-mail them to me at> td@cybernex.net? I'm sorry that I have unwittingly> taken up so much of this board's time on what is,> really, a side-issue.> My apologies to Karen and Jeff for any inconvenience> or misunderstanding; now that you see what I was> thinking, hopefully we'll understand each other> better. :)> Now...anyone want to talk about hair? :)> What's this I hear about Viviscal working in a single> month? I--wait, let me start a new thread on that one.> *grins*> Sincerely,> Jeff Mach> P.S. In e-mail, would people tell me if they find it> offensive for me to put my website after my messages?> I'll leave it off, for now.)
Clare
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Dawn View Drop Down
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Joined: April 16 2002
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:20am
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Sarah, that post, and a previous one a while back about sodium laureth sulfate, and any others that may be signed Dawn but are obviously abrasive and confrontational in nature, are NOT, I cannot stress strongly enough, are NOT from me, Dawn as in RareGems as in Hair Boutique's exclusive hair jewelry, Dawn. I can see you're upset about the response, but I assure you, that its not me talking there. I got my hair the hard way through 20 plus years of patience, and I'm not supporting or advocating anyone's hair growth products.Sorry about the confusion, but its not really my fault, I haven't read the entire board for a couple of days so didn't see this brewing.I'd ask that the other poster include some sort of appendage to their name to distinguish it from mine, but I'm not sure they're the sort to even care that they usurped my identity, and perhaps that was their intent all along, to add some credibility to their posts. Remember when someone posted pretending to be Karen? Anyway, again, I'm sorry about the mistaken identity, but you yourself were surprised that the post seemed out of character for me weren't you?You, other Dawn, stop it, you're making me look bad in front of my friends!!!Very best wishes to all,The real Dawn> Dear Dawn,> Harsh? You of all people should understand about not> advertising since you have been very good about not> advertising your hair jewelry here but providing> honest feedback. I used to appreciate that very much.> What about supporting Karen & Jeff?> They pay for this site out of their own money. If Mr.> Mach wants to provide information about his product> why does he not pay to advertise on this site?> This could have shown support for the HB site where> Mr. Mach hopes to sell his products to the many many> visitors who come here every day. Which K&J pay to> advertise about so that lots of visitors do come here.> Has Mr. Mach chosen to pay for advertising? Well I> doubt it. If he had, where are the banners? Where are> the paid ads?> Instead, it appears that Mr. Mach wants to use Hair> Talk for his own agenda.> Why pay K&J to help with the costs of Hair Boutique> when he can just take over the Hair Talk board and> post all about his products? For free. And act like he> is doing a service to boot. You know, I am screwing> over Hair Boutique and Hair Talk, but hey, I just want> to help.> Dawn, I guess Karen & Jeff are social workers who> should pay for Hair Boutique out of their own money> and let people like Mr. Mach just post his> advertisements for free. Is that what you are want?> Well if that is it, yes, you are right, I was> extremely harsh and I apologize for supporting Karen> & Jeff.> Dawn, did you know that there were two previous> messages that were immediately removed from Hair Talk> BEFORE the current round? Did you check into that> first before you accused me of being harsh and taking> Mr. Mach's side?> Mr. Mach posted the name of the web company that did> his new site and a link to them, he thanked a lot of> people for buying his product, and may I mention, he> makes sure to post a link to his site on EVERY single> one of his posts. Free advertising?> I guess I was wrong.> If you go to Mr. Mach's site, there are no links or> banners to other sites. Nothing about Hair Boutique or> Hair Talk anywhere.> So Mr. Mach feels free to take over Hair Talk and post> all about his new site and his great webmaster and his> great product but where is there any mention of any> other companies or other products OR other websites> like Hair Boutique? Nowhere.> Harsh? Yes, I guess I am.> Feedup? Gee, I guess getting attacked by you for being> harsh when I was 100% supporting K&J is harsh.> I am surprised that K&J have your jewelry on their> site yet you support Mr. Mach and his attempts to use> HB for his own benefits?> So until I see either paid advertising on Hair> Boutique or links or banners on Mr. Mach's hot new> site, I am going to think that he is a pushy> opportunist using K&J and Hair Talk for his own gains> and everyone else, too bad.> I am also going to tell everyone I know not to buy> from Aurora or Mr. Mach and I will make sure to refer> them to his competitior who you do not see posting> free advertising here on Hair Talk and using K&J.> Sarah> (Who may be harsh but loves this site and thanks K&J> for all their good work AND who researchs the facts> before attacking others)
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Clare View Drop Down
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Joined: December 28 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Clare Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 4:20am
Hi, Dawn,I found it hard to believe that the posts were from you as well.Regards,Clare> Whoa, whoa, whoa, Sarah, that post, and a previous one> a while back about sodium laureth sulfate, and any> others that may be signed Dawn but are obviously> abrasive and confrontational in nature, are NOT, I> cannot stress strongly enough, are NOT from me, Dawn> as in RareGems as in Hair Boutique's exclusive hair> jewelry, Dawn. I can see you're upset about the> response, but I assure you, that its not me talking> there. I got my hair the hard way through 20 plus> years of patience, and I'm not supporting or> advocating anyone's hair growth products.> Sorry about the confusion, but its not really my> fault, I haven't read the entire board for a couple of> days so didn't see this brewing.> I'd ask that the other poster include some sort of> appendage to their name to distinguish it from mine,> but I'm not sure they're the sort to even care that> they usurped my identity, and perhaps that was their> intent all along, to add some credibility to their> posts. Remember when someone posted pretending to be> Karen? Anyway, again, I'm sorry about the mistaken> identity, but you yourself were surprised that the> post seemed out of character for me weren't you?> You, other Dawn, stop it, you're making me look bad in> front of my friends!!!> Very best wishes to all,> The real Dawn
Clare
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