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meg View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:28am
Some of us have heard of the flushing effect which is caused from the Niacin in the "Step One" of HF-37. I read that Niacin is related to Liver damage. The recommended value is around 15 miligrams per day. The HF-37 program recommends 70 mg per day (2 "step one" tablets).It is also recommended not to use a time released Niacin supplement because it is worse on the liver(I don't know if HF-37 uses this or not). Does anyone have more information regarding the safety aspets of HF-37 or Niacin facts that can be shared.Also, I read the best form of niacin was Inositol Hexaniacinate, is the what we can find in HF-37??I want my hair to grow faster, but not if that means putting my health at risk.Let me know.
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KAREN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KAREN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:28am
I have not heard of any of the concerns that you have expressed.I had my accupuncturist who studied vitamins and minerals and herbs for over 20 years analyze the H37 formula and he felt that it was excellent and could only help the overall health of anyone taking it.He said your comment about liver damage is completely unfounded and not even a valid concern.I have personally been taking the H37 for several months with only one incident of flushing when I took it on an empty stomach.I am going to call Mike Trobee and discuss this with him. Please send me your email adress which you did not put on this post and I will reply to you personally.I am going to research this completely as I would never take or recommend a product that I think would cause harm. The Hair Boutique does not endorse any of the Vivisceral products because we do not believe that they are the right solution for hair growth. However, Jeff and I and Jane endorse and believe in the H37. We are all taking it with great results. My skin has never looked better and softer.Thanks,Karen SheltonHair Boutique Webmastershelton@hairboutique.com> Some of us have heard of the flushing effect which is> caused from the Niacin in the "Step One" of> HF-37. I read that Niacin is related to Liver damage.> The recommended value is around 15 miligrams per day.> The HF-37 program recommends 70 mg per day (2> "step one" tablets).> It is also recommended not to use a time released> Niacin supplement because it is worse on the liver(I> don't know if HF-37 uses this or not). Does anyone> have more information regarding the safety aspets of> HF-37 or Niacin facts that can be shared.> Also, I read the best form of niacin was Inositol> Hexaniacinate, is the what we can find in HF-37??> I want my hair to grow faster, but not if that means> putting my health at risk.> Let me know.
TAKE CARE WITH YOUR HAIR!
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Julie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Julie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:28am
Karen,I agree. Meg's concerns are unfounded. I am studying nutrition in college and you can not overdose on Niacin. You can take too much Iron but H37 has a warning about not taking too much iron.I do agree about Vivisceral. It is way too expensive and I think the H37 is a better buy for overall hair, skin and body health.The flushing of niacin has nothing to do with liver damage.Thanks for your reply. It was right on.Julie> I have not heard of any of the concerns that you have> expressed.> I had my accupuncturist who studied vitamins and> minerals and herbs for over 20 years analyze the H37> formula and he felt that it was excellent and could> only help the overall health of anyone taking it.> He said your comment about liver damage is completely> unfounded and not even a valid concern.> I have personally been taking the H37 for several> months with only one incident of flushing when I took> it on an empty stomach.> I am going to call Mike Trobee and discuss this with> him. Please send me your email adress which you did> not put on this post and I will reply to you> personally.> I am going to research this completely as I would> never take or recommend a product that I think would> cause harm. The Hair Boutique does not endorse any of> the Vivisceral products because we do not believe that> they are the right solution for hair growth. However,> Jeff and I and Jane endorse and believe in the H37. We> are all taking it with great results. My skin has> never looked better and softer.> Thanks,> Karen Shelton> Hair Boutique Webmaster> shelton@hairboutique.com
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meg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:28am
Not a valid concern??"The side of effects of niacin are well known. The most common and bothersome side effect is the skin flushing that typically occurs 20 to 30 minutes after taking the niacin. Other occasional side effects of niacin include gastric irritation, nausea, and liver damage"--> This if from Enclyclopedia of Nutritional Supplements, by Michael T. Murray.I am wondering since the recommended dose is 15 mg per day and HF-37 suggests 70 mg per day if it it would increase side effects. I'm just concerned.You will find the exerpt on page 99 of the book under "Safety Issues". Also, the author notes that inositol hexaniacinate is the safest form of niacin currently available. Both short and long term studies show it is virtually free of side effects other than mild gastric upset or mild skin irritation.My other point was if HF-37 included this particular form of Niacin or not?> Karen,> I agree. Meg's concerns are unfounded. I am studying> nutrition in college and you can not overdose on> Niacin. You can take too much Iron but H37 has a> warning about not taking too much iron.> I do agree about Vivisceral. It is way too expensive> and I think the H37 is a better buy for overall hair,> skin and body health.> The flushing of niacin has nothing to do with liver> damage.> Thanks for your reply. It was right on.> Julie
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meg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:28am
This was a note just to leave my e-mail address for Karen, since you asked for it. Thank you for responding to my concerns.MeganD18@excite.comThanks Karen and Julie> Not a valid concern??> "The side of effects of niacin are well known.> The most common and bothersome side effect is the skin> flushing that typically occurs 20 to 30 minutes after> taking the niacin. Other occasional side effects of> niacin include gastric irritation, nausea, and liver> damage"--> This if from Enclyclopedia of> Nutritional Supplements, by Michael T. Murray.> I am wondering since the recommended dose is 15 mg per> day and HF-37 suggests 70 mg per day if it it would> increase side effects. I'm just concerned.> You will find the exerpt on page 99 of the book under> "Safety Issues". Also, the author notes that> inositol hexaniacinate is the safest form of niacin> currently available. Both short and long term studies> show it is virtually free of side effects other than> mild gastric upset or mild skin irritation.> My other point was if HF-37 included this particular> form of Niacin or not?
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Jade21 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jade21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:28am
Hi, Meg!I am going to quote you from Balch and Balch, Prescription For Nutritional Healing, p. 15, in the updated Second Edition: " Cautions: People who are pregnant or who suffer from diabetes, glaucoma, gout, liver disease, or peptic ulcers should use niacin supplements with caution. Amounts over 500 miligrams daily may cause liver damage if taken for prolonged periods of time. Comments: A flush, usually harmless, may occur after the ingestion of niacin supplements; a red rash appears on the skin and a tingling sensation may be experienced as well."I'm also going to quote you from Mindell's Vitamin Bible from p.60-61 re your concerns. "Niacinimide is more generally used since it minimizes the flushing and itching of the skin that frequently occurs with the nicotonic acid form of niacin. (The flush, by the way, is not serious and usually disappears in about 20 minutes. Drinking a glass of water helps.)"(p.60) "Supplements: Available as niacin and niacinamide. (The only difference is that niacin-nicotinic acid-might cause flushing and niacinamide-nicotinamide-will not. If you prefer niacin, you can minimize the flushing by taking the pill on a full stomach or with an equivalent amount of inositol.)"Toxicity: Essentially nontoxic, except for side effects resulting from doses above 100mg. Some sensitive individuals might evidence burning or itching skin." (p.61)I think this should help you make your decision. Personally, I think Dr. Balch gives some good advice. It's updated through 1997. Mindell's book is a bit dated (1985, updated as to products or services to 1991 only) speaking in supplement terms, but the advice is also sound. I admire your ability to ask these questions because, in the end, YOU make the decision.I can tell you from my own experience that I have been taking a B Complex supplement, 100mg daily, since the age of 17 or 18. I am 24 now. However, my supplement includes niacin in the form of niacinamide. I had heard of the flushing and itching and wanted to avoid that. I have never had any liver problems and believe that the B Complex has enhanced my overall health. I would not be without it:)I also want to tell you that high doses of niacin are not recommended for people who have high blood pressure and even those really who are sensitive to it. However, you often don't know whether you are really sensitive to it unless you take it and get what some call a "rush." Re the high blood pressure, see Balch and Balch, p.322, indicating only under the supervision of a physician. Oftentimes, if you are a person who is sensitive to caffeine and the like, you will experience a more severe version of the "rush." I can't quote you a study for this, but it's just from experience and from what I've heard from others who take vitamins and supplements.You asked about niacin in the form of inositol h. Your question should really be for what purpose. As far as hair, you don't need this form which can be expensive. However, if you read what I wrote re Mindell in terms of his recommendation to take some inositol, that sheds some light as far as its effect, that is, avoiding the flush. Also, if memory serves correctly, that form is used with people trying to lower cholesterol through natural means. Its mention harks back to a study in my mind for some reason:) It makes sense because those people who are familiar with B Vitamins and co-factors know that inositol is one of the B's chill pills while niacin generates that "rush."I hope this helps in some way and I think if you are still not confident re your decision, I think further reading and investigation are in order.Bye for now,Jade21Some of us have heard of the flushing effect which is> caused from the Niacin in the "Step One" of> HF-37. I read that Niacin is related to Liver damage.> The recommended value is around 15 miligrams per day.> The HF-37 program recommends 70 mg per day (2> "step one" tablets).> It is also recommended not to use a time released> Niacin supplement because it is worse on the liver(I> don't know if HF-37 uses this or not). Does anyone> have more information regarding the safety aspets of> HF-37 or Niacin facts that can be shared.> Also, I read the best form of niacin was Inositol> Hexaniacinate, is the what we can find in HF-37??> I want my hair to grow faster, but not if that means> putting my health at risk.> Let me know.
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meg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:28am
Thanks Jade 21, your message was very informative.Thanks for the quotes too ;-)Thanks> Hi, Meg!> I am going to quote you from Balch and Balch,> Prescription For Nutritional Healing, p. 15, in the> updated Second Edition: " Cautions: People who> are pregnant or who suffer from diabetes, glaucoma,> gout, liver disease, or peptic ulcers should use> niacin supplements with caution. Amounts over 500> miligrams daily may cause liver damage if taken for> prolonged periods of time. Comments: A flush, usually> harmless, may occur after the ingestion of niacin> supplements; a red rash appears on the skin and a> tingling sensation may be experienced as well."> I'm also going to quote you from Mindell's Vitamin> Bible from p.60-61 re your concerns. "Niacinimide> is more generally used since it minimizes the flushing> and itching of the skin that frequently occurs with> the nicotonic acid form of niacin. (The flush, by the> way, is not serious and usually disappears in about 20> minutes. Drinking a glass of water helps.)"(p.60)> "Supplements: Available as niacin and> niacinamide. (The only difference is that> niacin-nicotinic acid-might cause flushing and> niacinamide-nicotinamide-will not. If you prefer> niacin, you can minimize the flushing by taking the> pill on a full stomach or with an equivalent amount of> inositol.)"Toxicity: Essentially nontoxic, except> for side effects resulting from doses above 100mg.> Some sensitive individuals might evidence burning or> itching skin." (p.61)> I think this should help you make your decision.> Personally, I think Dr. Balch gives some good advice.> It's updated through 1997. Mindell's book is a bit> dated (1985, updated as to products or services to> 1991 only) speaking in supplement terms, but the> advice is also sound. I admire your ability to ask> these questions because, in the end, YOU make the> decision.> I can tell you from my own experience that I have been> taking a B Complex supplement, 100mg daily, since the> age of 17 or 18. I am 24 now. However, my supplement> includes niacin in the form of niacinamide. I had> heard of the flushing and itching and wanted to avoid> that. I have never had any liver problems and believe> that the B Complex has enhanced my overall health. I> would not be without it:)> I also want to tell you that high doses of niacin are> not recommended for people who have high blood> pressure and even those really who are sensitive to> it. However, you often don't know whether you are> really sensitive to it unless you take it and get what> some call a "rush." Re the high blood> pressure, see Balch and Balch, p.322, indicating only> under the supervision of a physician. Oftentimes, if> you are a person who is sensitive to caffeine and the> like, you will experience a more severe version of the> "rush." I can't quote you a study for this,> but it's just from experience and from what I've heard> from others who take vitamins and supplements.> You asked about niacin in the form of inositol h. Your> question should really be for what purpose. As far as> hair, you don't need this form which can be expensive.> However, if you read what I wrote re Mindell in terms> of his recommendation to take some inositol, that> sheds some light as far as its effect, that is,> avoiding the flush. Also, if memory serves correctly,> that form is used with people trying to lower> cholesterol through natural means. Its mention harks> back to a study in my mind for some reason:) It makes> sense because those people who are familiar with B> Vitamins and co-factors know that inositol is one of> the B's chill pills while niacin generates that> "rush."> I hope this helps in some way and I think if you are> still not confident re your decision, I think further> reading and investigation are in order.> Bye for now,> Jade21> Some of us have heard of the flushing effect which is
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Mike/HF37 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike/HF37 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:29am
I have to step in here. Posts are fine when valid. Post by people cutting and pasting text from sites here and there after no study (years) ...hurt us all.Niacin is recommended by Cardiologists in doses of 1-2 grams per day (10,000mg – 20,000mg) . They rec. it for heart problems (not hair)…Niacinimide does not offer the flushing effect that true niacin has. Most people (on average will not even notice a flushing until 150mg per day is taken)Niacin is good. I encourage all to read http://www.salonweb.com/37/niacin.htmIf you are pregnant …yes I would rec. that you consult your doctor on ANY vitamins/drugs you take. HF37 contains folic acid which is very good during pregnancy in rec. doses by a doctor.HF37 is all natural , vitamins, amino acids…Please read up (years) before making posts like this. It is unfair to all. I will be glad to send you a bottle at no charge to take to any reputable Doctor (sent to the doctor directly) to analyze.
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Meg, yeat again View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Meg, yeat again Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:29am
Thanks for responding Mike T.I would beg to differ, because someone does YEARS of research dosen't mean their findings will agree with someone else who has done just as much research. I did not make these quotes up, I read the information just as everyone one else has from their particular resource books. As far as cardiologists recommending doses of 1-2 GRAMS per day, this is not what the resource book said that I read. I KNOW not everyone agrees, from Ph.Ds to grandma. I am not saying you and your resources are wrong, I was JUST asking a question.Any EDUCATED PERSON knows it is a good thing to ask questions. I have no problem asking others or reading other data (yours included). You yourself encourage customers to examine claims and further research OTHER hair vitamin companies' claims. Why are you so offended when the same is posed to you.Thanks again for responding. I like learning new things, everyday. I appretiate you sincere interest in setting the record straight.Good Luck to ya!!> I have to step in here. Posts are fine when valid.> Post by people cutting and pasting text from sites> here and there after no study (years) ...hurt us all.> Niacin is recommended by Cardiologists in doses of 1-2> grams per day (10,000mg – 20,000mg) . They rec. it for> heart problems (not hair)…> Niacinimide does not offer the flushing effect that> true niacin has. Most people (on average will not even> notice a flushing until 150mg per day is taken)> Niacin is good. I encourage all to read> http://www.salonweb.com/37/niacin.htm> If you are pregnant …yes I would rec. that you consult> your doctor on ANY vitamins/drugs you take. HF37> contains folic acid which is very good during> pregnancy in rec. doses by a doctor.> HF37 is all natural , vitamins, amino acids…> Please read up (years) before making posts like this.> It is unfair to all. I will be glad to send you a> bottle at no charge to take to any reputable Doctor> (sent to the doctor directly) to analyze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:29am
As a practicing pharmacist for 23 years, may I add that thedose of 70mg (35mg/dose) per day of niacin is relatively minimal and should not worry most people. The flushing effect is usually short term and with regular use will tend to go away. It is always excellent practice to ask questions before entering into a new therapy and NO question is irrelevant. If anyone ever has concerns they should always seek advice from their medical professional, pharmacist, or knowledgeable nutritionist.Doug at hde_98@yahoo.com> This was a note just to leave my e-mail address for> Karen, since you asked for it. Thank you for> responding to my concerns.> MeganD18@excite.com> Thanks Karen and Julie
Doug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silvie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:32am
>Mike is totally right here.I think it always makes sense to research something you plan to ingest, and even consult with your doctor if you have concerns. Skepticism is a good thing...but remember that it's also easy to get shoddy or just plan *wrong* information from web sites...Once you've done all your research I think you'll realize: HF37 is not evil! It's full of good things that are good for your general health, and specifically will promote hair growth. That's a testimonial from me, someone who's been taking it for over a month.If you're still skeptical--good. Now just go ask your doctor and let him or her tell you that it's fine to take HF37!
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meg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:32am
To Silvie,Thanks for responding and adding your personal testimony. I also want you to know I received the information from a book not a "shoddy website". Remember this forum is on a website.Please do not imply that I thought or think HF-37 is evil. I never implied such a thing. Your word not mine.Thanks again;-)MI think it always makes sense to research something> you plan to ingest, and even consult with your doctor> if you have concerns. Skepticism is a good thing...but> remember that it's also easy to get shoddy or just> plan *wrong* information from web sites...> Once you've done all your research I think you'll> realize: HF37 is not evil! It's full of good things> that are good for your general health, and> specifically will promote hair growth. That's a> testimonial from me, someone who's been taking it for> over a month.> If you're still skeptical--good. Now just go ask your> doctor and let him or her tell you that it's fine to> take HF37!
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Victor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2000 at 5:33am
> Niacin is recommended by Cardiologists in doses of 1-2> grams per day (10,000mg – 20,000mg) .1-2 grams is 1,000mg - 2,000 mg.
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