QuoteReplyTopic: Question from a newbie Posted: April 01 2005 at 7:28pm
Is is just me? I've been reading over this topic and getting a little creeped
out by repeated cycles of postings about a wife or girlfriend that focus
solely on her hair. I love this topic; most of the people who post,
including the men who love short hair, seem to be enjoying
straightforward discourse on the enjoyment of and issues involved with
short hair. However, some of the posts seem to be so intensely focused
on a particular hairstyle on a specific person that it seems to objectify the
person in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable, in the same way I
would feel if someone were posting exclusively on a grooming and beauty
site about their partner's breasts or feet or genitals. Now, I would
certainly expect to find this if I were on a fetish message board, but Hair
Boutique.com seems to be based in discussion about style and fashion.
Maybe it is just me. Maybe I just need to avoid reading those posts or
just stay away from this topic. However, I was wondering if perhaps a
section could be started for Hair Fetishes where hair fetishists and those
who love them could post. I have no problem with people with fetishes;
in fact, in my professional life I am a therapist who has maintained a
specialty through many years of working supportively with people with
alternative sexual lifestyles. My observation here is that it seems as if
there are two general topics running parallel in the same forum that are
at odds with each other.
Debbie
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Hi Kristie. If you read the first thingy as you log on you will find that it says this is not a hair fetish board! Just thought you would like to know! Debbie
There is more to life than hair...Come on---Go get a life!!!!!!!
Kuroneko
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I think we've had discussions on that very issue in the past, but nothing was ever resolved -_-; . Unless someone thinks it's a big enough problem to report to the mods, all anyone can do is ignore those topics every time they. . . frequently. . . appear :-P .
More awesome than a manatee!
eKatherine
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For some reason there are posters on this board that come much closer to the line than you see on the other boards.
You never see this stuff on the longhair board, though I know from personal experience that there are persons of the fetishist persuasion that read it and post. They just manage to keep it offline there.
kristie m
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Thanks for your responses to my question. I guess it just has to do with
the "tone" the moderator of each forum wishes to establish for that
forum. I'll certainly keep this in mind when I'm reading or posting on the
Short Hair Forum. I did come to the conclusion that I'm glad I'm sporting
a short crop now instead of the bob with shaved nape that I used to wear.
I never realized just how...umm...popular that style was with some men.
= )
DaveDecker
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I try to allow the posters on the Short Hair Forum lots of
leeway. Certain ones seem to like to post messages which are of
the nature you mentioned. While eKatherine's statement is
certainly news to me ( ), I
generally go by the principle that the discussions here are acceptable
as long as they are civil, and are not profane or X-rated.
Occasionally there are complaints (sometimes sent to me via PM); I
always try to be fair and act only judiciously.
I think you would find just as many of the same types of people on the long haired board as the short. In my opinion the short haired ones stand out more because of the buzz words they use. Like buzz, shaved nape, short crop. Go to the long hair board, either post that you have waist length long hair, are tired of it and thinking of cutting it or that you have short hair, thinking of growing it and see if your responses are not the same, just opposite
kristie m
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Dave, I appreciate your position as moderator of this forum. How could I
not be impressed by a guy with long hair who can not only use the word
"judiciously" in a sentence but can also spell it properly? (If I were to ever
have a fetish it would definitely be attractive intelligent men with long
hair!) I did not support the Patriot Act and am a big fan of free speech; I
respect your decisions on the content of this forum.
Hal, I agree with you to some extent, but have found in a somewhat
limited perusal of the other boards that although there are adamant fans
of all hair styles and colors, the other forums seem to limit the number of
repeated posters who go on and on about a wife, girlfriend, or sister-in-
law's hair, including frequent updates and pictures. My sense of
"creepiness" stems from those types of posts. I know with one of the
more prodigious posters he himself has admitted that his wife of seven
years has no idea of how deep his interest in her hair and hairstyle
actually runs. It is the personal quality of those posts as well as the
frequency and intensity of them that make me think these people are
truly fetishising the hair of a loved one. Posting pictures on the Internet
with personal information that a loved one may not know about is a part
of what makes me uncomfortable. The other part has to do with the fact
that for fetishists, the discussion of their fetish is an erotic act. It is my opinion that in a forum for short hair on a
message board expressly focused on beauty, grooming, and style issues,
these intense repeated posts derail the good discussion.
I know it is a subtle distinction. Perhaps, as an example, imagine a
message board designed for discussion about knot-tying. People who
made a hobby of knot-tying would post there, as well as others who
might want assistance in finding a certain knot for a certain usage.
Imagine then someone came in discussing how they liked to tie their
girlfriend up (pictures included) and posting again and again about
what knots they'd used the night previously to bind her. Assuming the
majority of the participants in the forum were not bondage afficionados,
this kind of discussion might change the tone of the forum and cause the
regular participants to avoid making posts or even to leave the forum
completely. Certainly, if the moderator were him- or herself a bondage
fan, these posts might be welcome. Then the forum would take on the
flavor of a combined fetishist and hobby-ist board. Those who weren't
into the fetish aspect might choose to go elsewhere.
I asked my question, as a newbie, to get a sense of whether this forum
defines itself as a place for discussion about short hair issues, or is in
fact, a beauty AND fetish board. For me it is a matter of
curiosity as well as informed consent as to whether I will choose to
participate in the future.
Edited by Administrator
administrater
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Please note that the content posted on the HairBoutique.com messageboards are ultimately controlled by the owner of HairBoutique.com since this is a privately owned enterprise. As such, although free speech is encouraged where appropriate, it is also limited appropriately, in a timely manner, to the topic threads.
Although the various HairTalk messageboards do have some volunteer moderators - such as Mr. Decker - who does a fabulous job on behalf of HairTalk - HairBoutique.com recently tasked their paid employees with HairTalk monitoring duties. The boards, at the expense of the HairBoutique.com corporation, are now in effect monitored 24/7 to minimize problems with spam, trolls, banned visitors and other nusiance posters.
Hair fetish discussions are officially not encouraged, nor have they ever been encouraged or allowed throughout the history of HairTalk since its opening in 1997. In addition, fetish or related conversations have never been supported or allowed on any of the HairTalk boards.
There is no current, or likely future interest, on the part of HB ownership, in starting any type of fetish related thread, hair or otherwise, at HairTalk.
There are a vast number of sites on the Web that cater specifically to fetish lifestyles and HairBoutique.com admin officially asks fetish fans to visit other sites to discuss their fetishes, whether related to hair or other matters.
This is done to offer the HairTalk regular and newbie visitors a safe and comfortable place to post about the topic of hair.
HairTalk posters are also aggressively asked to immediately report any offending/suspicious or inappropriate posts made in any of the HairTalk threads. There is a convenient, easy to use, Report option for each thread that is generated by selecting the Admin button. The "Report This Thread" button sends an immediate message to the HB Admin staff to investigate a potential problem post.
Newbies will find that HB.com owners, mods and board administrators try to be fair but work hard to keep the HairTalk boards a safe place to post. The way this can be most efficiently managed is when all posters who are an active part of this community immediately and privately report their concerns. That way, any topics that are posted that are inappropriate, would upset the majority or fall outside the lines of acceptable messageboard behaviors would be instantly nipped in the bud.
As a result of reports, Bmails or emails to the HB.com owner or Webmaster, offending posts have been edited, locked or deleted completely.
Thank you to the HB Administative Team for the clarification on the
board's policies in this matter. In looking over the Short Hair forum over
the last years it is obviously the "community standard" to not censor
these threads that most of the participants do not find objectionable. As
a newbie I certainly do not want to dictate a change in this standard
based on my own comfort level. I recognize that as a specialist in
fetishes and related alternative sexualies I am most likely hypersensitive
to certain issues pertaining to consent. It is not a particular poster that
caused my discomfort, but rather repeated threads where a group of men
discuss and view pictures of a particular woman who is a non-participant
in the forum in a way that seems fetishized. I respect the majority who
do not find these discussions objectionable and will participate further, or
not, at my own discretion.
eKatherine
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If a woman posts a pic on the longhair board and asks for feedback, she gets comments like It looks nice and shiny, what conditioner do you use, have you tried updos, and how long are you growing?
If a woman posts a pic of her new haircut on the shorthair board, she gets comments like You look really hot! You should get a lip-length bob and shave your nape, have you considered a crew-cut or head shave?
kristie m
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That's exactly what I was trying to convey. The tone of this particular
forum can be very different from all the other forums I've read on this
site. Perhaps as women we're more sensitive to a certain kind of male
energy that can in certain situations feel uncomfortable or creepy.
Kuroneko
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So is the complaint about endless wife/girlfriend hair updates, or that short hair fans need to be more tactful in expressing their preferences? *shrugs* There are just as many long hair fans who could learn a little tact-- I see them all the time on the celeb board. I don't know whether they go to the long hair board or not, though, since I don't hang out there.
The point I was agreeing to was the former, as it bothers me to see little else on this board but endless wife/girlfriend updates. That's the sort of thing one makes one's own website for, perhaps with a mailing list so visitors can keep up with events. But so long as the mods don't agree, all one can do is ignore those topics, and concentrate on other things.
Activity related to postings are not always related to the fact that the mods "don't agree" or "do agree" with the posts.
The reality is that sometimes no one says anything to the mods or to HB Admin so they may be totally unaware. In fact, recently there was a thread on a different board that seemed "borderline" to me. So I emailed the mod and we privately discussed it. Then I specifically posted on that thread....is there a problem with this topic & does it need to be removed?
No one commented, no one answered me and no one made any attempt to do anything about the thread. OK. So what would you all do in that scenario? I certainly don't want to encourage a heavy hand in censorship but on the other hand, I want people to feel comfortable, as much as possible.
As a woman I did feel it was "marginal" but no one else seemed to feel that it was weird or odd, so it stood.
In that case, it was not about the mods agreeing or disagreeing. It was more a case that none of the posters or the visitors to that thread seemed to care or were offended.
Hair is probably one of the most political topics that currently exists in many societies today. I am constantly receiving bmails about "terminology" or emails about articles on hair that I have written. As one example....some people are offended by the use of dreadlocks and think that they should be called only locs. Others believe that locs are in essence dreadlocks. The nitpicking and hypersensitivities about terminology could literally suck up all the hours in anyone's day.
At any rate, if someone alerts us to posts or a series of posts that are borderline, offensive, inappropriate...whatever....we will immediately look at it and consider appropriate actions. If someone doesn't alert us, then we may or may not on our own be able to determine if it is offensive and take action.
Ultimately the best course of action is to participate or not, depending on your own personal code of comfort. If the TV show bothers you, change the channel or turn off the TV. Of course you have the option here...which you don't have as much with TV networks...to bmail or email your opinions to the mods, HB Admin or me. So that at least provides some level of feedback that doesn't exist today in a lot of forms.
Also, I find that people who don't enjoy one thread, move to another or they start new topics about things that are appropriate. If someone inappropriate joins the topic, it is easy to bmail to have that inappropriate poster removed.
On a related topic, I could talk about how feedback is not even encouraged in the business world today, but don't get me started on that thread. Or else you will all have to decide whether to read my rantings about trying to just get a shipment of shampoo that you paid for sent to your warehouses. :-)
I appreciate all of your participation at HairTalk.
Have a great day.
Karen
Edited by Karen Shelton
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger or drives you totally insane. :-)
kristie m
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I appreciate the difficult position the moderators and administrators are
in. It is up to participants in a forum to complain if they're having a
problem with something that is being said. My initial post on this topic
was inspired in part by your post asking if people were having a problem
with that particular thread. Ultimately, it seems that the majority of
participants in the Short Hair forum either don't mind those types of
threads or are capable of ignoring them or finding them amusing.
This has been an interesting discussion in its own right. I had no idea
that the topic of hair was so political. Initially I came to the HB site to see
if someone might know of a place to purchase professional hair color. In
short order I was directed to a great online resource. Thanks to this
advice I have been able to terminate a long and expensive relationship
with my colorist. To my surprise even hair color has its own politics. On
a site primarily for hair stylists I was shocked by the vehemence with
which professionals defended their right to exclusive control over all
professional hair styling products. Anyone wanting to color their own
hair is seen as a moron who will eventually end up back in the stylist's
chair for color repair. Asking about professional products for home use
was akin to inquiring about the best poison to put down your first-born
child!
You have a great site. Help from the participants here has given me
better hair color and saved me hundreds of dollars as well as hours at the
salon. Thanks for all the great responses to my initial post. I would have
never thought that a beauty site would be a place for such thoughtful
dialogue and such interesting people. I do think that had my first contact
with the HB site been the Short Hair forum, I would have assumed that
this was a site for hair fetishists and would have left the site without
checking out the other forums.
Thank you for your response. I appreciate the scoop on the hair color experiences you have had. And you hit the nail right on the head when you talked about your experiences with doing home hair color.
Ahhhh...yes...the politics of hair color. And you are right, it is very acrimonious. Not only when a consumer tries to color their own hair but when a stylist who has not taken advanced classes does color, they are often looked down on by the colorists, who have taken advanced classes.
And of course there is the entire diversion thing where everyone knows that the big companies are actively permitting their products to be sold in mass market like Target & Kroger but yet to avoid getting hairdressers upset, will say "Oh Target is diverting and we don't know how they got the products". Well think about it. When Target or Kroger buy hair care products, they buy them by the trailor truckloads. So it is not something that the top executives "wouldn't notice". Or encourage...directly or indirectly.
I have always tried to respect both sides of the diversion issue by not allowed "salon only" products to be sold at HairBoutique.com. However, I get calls from the "salon only" companies who give me written contracts allowing me to sell those products, if I wish to do so.
Very political and very sticky. So for the most part, I avoid those companies that sceam against diversion while the trailer truckloads of their products are backing into a Walmart somewhere. :-)
I am glad that you have brought up your comments and concerns and I appreciate your feedback. And yes...we do want it and we do listen and when appropriate, we do deal with it as fairly as possible and for the good of all concerned.
I hope you will come back and get involved in the threads that you enjoy.
Best wishes,
Karen
That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger or drives you totally insane. :-)
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Thanks(0)
), I
generally go by the principle that the discussions here are acceptable
as long as they are civil, and are not profane or X-rated.
Occasionally there are complaints (sometimes sent to me via PM); I
always try to be fair and act only judiciously.
