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Stripping dark semipermanent color

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francesgrimble View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 20 2005 at 9:03pm

I've been coloring my medium brown hair with semipermanent dye for years, to cover gray.  I started out using dye my natural color, then when it wasn't covering well any more I switched to a very dark brown, L'Oreal espresso.

Now I have some gray areas that are just too extensive for the semimpermanent dye to cover. There's a fair amount of natural brown still left, but there are some big streaks up front that are now almost all gray.

OK, so I want to switch to permanent dye to cover the gray.  I also want to go back to my natural shade of medium brown, because I've never really liked the very dark brown. At the drugstore I found a L'oreal creme dye that claims to provide 100% gray coverage, in a medium brown that should  be very like my natural shade--if it turns out like the picture on the box.

But:  I've dyed a lot of textiles and thereby found out that it's easy to go from light to dark, but not vice versa.  I called the L'oreal customer service line and they were very nice. But:  they told me to wait for 28 shampoos and the semipermanent dye would all come out.  My experience with semipermanent dye on my hair is that in fact it comes out enough to look crummy, especially over gray, but never comes all the way out.  The ends and middle are very dark now. And they told me that if there was semipermanent dye left on my hair my dye job would come out darker-which is NOT what I want. 

I have fine hair down to the middle of my back, in good condition, but still fine and therefore more fragile than coarse hair.  L'Oreal told me not to use color remover, because it's really harsh.  I've also been told THEIR color remover is really harsh but that there are better ones.

Can any one recommend a brand of gentle color remover to get just enough semipermanent dye off my hair so that I can get a medium brown with the permanent dye?  A consumer-friendly remover?  I've never done this before and am not "good with hair"?  A creme remover?  I'm paranoid about the stuff dripping into my eyes and blinding me.

I found a Sally Beauty supply online, http://www.sallybeauty.com, so should have no problem getting a remover from them or a drugstore.  But what can I buy that isn't (a) bad for my hair and (b) compatible with the L'oreal permanent dye?

Thanks for any help.

Fran

 

 

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francesgrimble View Drop Down
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Also, if I use the color remover how long should I leave it on?  I don't want to go blond or worse, orange.  I just want to get the dark semipermanent color off.

Thanks,

Fran

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leia1979 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote leia1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2005 at 10:25pm
Unfortunately, I don't know of any color strippers that work on semi permanent color.  Most are designed for permanent (oxidative) dyes.  However, if the majority of your grey is in the front, you could mix a small amount of the permanent color you want and apply it only to the grey with a hairpainting brush (or even a toothbrush), thus giving the semi permanent color more time to fade.  Because you've repeatedly used the semi permanent color, it will likely never come off the longer part of your hair until it is cut off.

Some people have suggested fading haircolor faster by using Prell shampoo and hot oil treatments.  That might get your hair light enough that the permanent will not make everything overly dark.

Also, be aware that once you start using permanent, you shouldn't recolor the same hair over and over.  Only reapply color to the hair that needs it, as repeated use of permanent color leads to porous hair that fades quickly.
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eKatherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eKatherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2005 at 7:50am
One option is to choose a color that's the same as you have now, and keep your length this color. Then gradually over a period of months, you could blend this color with a lighter one of the same brand and type, touching up the roots lighter and lighter. So over a year or so you could get back to your desired color without any drastic noticeable point of change.


Just looking for a few good hair slaves - is that too much to ask?
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I'm struggling with the chemistry, of which I'm entirely ignorant. 

Here I am with the dye chart on the Medium Brown box (trying to ignore the knowledge that textile dyes never produce the shade on chart).  If the Before is dark blonde to light brown, the After is darker.  If the Before is medium brown, the After is slightly lighter.  If the Before is dark brown to black, the After is a bit lighter and warmer, but still darker than the After for starting with medium brown.

I'm starting with an artificial, semipermanent dark brown. I want to end up with the After shown for if I'd started with medium brown, which is actually about my natural color.

The dye has some sort of lightener/bleach in it, otherwise starting with medium brown would not produce a slightly lighter shade after dyeing.  The second ingredient on the developer (after water) is hydrogen peroxide, so the question would be the strength.  I've accidentally spilled a drugstore 3% solution of hydrogen peroxide (for cleaning cuts) on colored textiles and it didn't bleach those areas at all.

So, if I keep using the same dye for touch-ups over a period of many months, does the semipermanent dye gradually strip off the middles and ends of my hair under the influence of repeated applications of (possibly mild) hydrogen peroxide for the brief touch-up application?

Also, what if I started out with a light brown dye instead of medium, would that be a better move?  Or maybe medium brown on my gray areas and roots, and light brown the middles and ends?

Not that I'm not going to go out and buy some Prell, but I've never used it and don't have a clue how much dye it will take off.

As for growing the dye out, my hair takes forever to grow.  I spent over 5 years getting it from shoulder length to mid back.

Thanks, I really appreciate this.

Fran


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eKatherine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eKatherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2005 at 1:22pm
The chart on the box is only a rough guide. Don't expect your hair to come out exactly like the "before" picture does, even with a strand test.

A permanent hair color can lift the color of hair by two levels. Don't try to figure this out with logic, it really does.

Before you said you were going to be switching to permanent, now you're talking about semipermanent, which is very different.

Properly touching up the hair is not the same as recoloring the whole head. Touching up involves painting only the roots with the new color, so the length of your hair is not exposed to the color. And under no circumstances should you apply hydrogen peroxide directly to your hair.

Semipermanent contains ammonia just like permanent (or, if you wish, produces ammonia when the two parts are mixed), but in small enough quantity that it shouldn't damage your hair. But if you've been redyeing your whole head each time, you could have caused serious damage over the years, which could account for the fact that your hair doesn't seem to grow. And it's also possible that repeated dyeing has made the color at least partly permanent, so you could damage your hair without removing much color.

Maybe you should have a professional consultation. If you make a mistake, considering the condition of your hair and how long it takes to grow, it could be something you will have to live with for years.


Just looking for a few good hair slaves - is that too much to ask?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote francesgrimble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2005 at 2:43pm
Sorry for the confusion. I am (as before) going from a dark brown semipermanent dye to a medium brown permanent dye.  My concern is whether and how get to some of the semipermanent off first.  The box I was referring to was the box of permanent dye.

I wouldn't put hydrogen peroxide directly on my hair, I just was trying to understand what the ingredients in the permanent dye do.  It is good to know that the permanent dye will lighten my current color a couple levels.

The O'Loreal customer service told me for a touch-up, to do the roots for 35 minutes and the rest of the hair for 10 minutes only, I assume to get a more consistent color.

My hair is not damaged--I condition it, I never blow dry it, I don't perm it, I never use hot irons or any sort of curlers.  It just grows slowly, and has done so all my life, even before I colored it. My skin also heals very slowly from cuts, etc.  I've always been in good health, but that's the way my body naturally works.

I'll do a consultation with a hairdresser if I have to, but after some bad experiences, several years ago I vowed to never again let a hairdresser actually work on my hair.

Thanks for all your help. I'll buy some Prell.

Fran

























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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eKatherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2005 at 2:52pm
They all tell you to apply the color to your roots and then to put the rest over your entire hair. I never do this, and my color is uniform and does not fade noticeably. I believe that to do so will eventually cause your hair to become porous and damaged. I think that to do this temporarily refreshes the color, but will cause the color to fade more rapidly in the long term.

You also use more color when you mix up an entire box each time and need to buy it more often. You don't suppose this has anything to do with their recommendations, do you?


Just looking for a few good hair slaves - is that too much to ask?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote francesgrimble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 21 2005 at 3:17pm
That's good to know, that you can only do the roots for each touch-up.  L'Oreal didn't say why to touch up the rest of the hair briefly. I just assumed it was to avoid a line of demarcation, or color inconsistency of some sort.

Of course L'Oreal is trying to sell their products--they also told me to keep an extra box of dye on hand.  Still, they were pretty good about it.  I give them points for not even mentioning their own brand(s?) of shampoo, conditioner, or any products other than dye.

I actually do have an idea for a chemistry experiment.  I have a very good book titled _Beauty: The New Basics_, by Rona Berg.  In addition to instructions for things like how to apply lipstick, she talks about what's in the various products for makeup, hair, etc.  She says the clarifying ingredient in Prell and similar shampoos (along with, I bet, some kind of strong detergent) is vinegar.  Well, I've got plenty of cooking vinegar.  I might give a vinegar rinse a shot.

Thanks a ton for all your help.

Fran


















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