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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Merlin101 Merlin101 wrote:

Check out this picture of Ms. Kline.
 
She's gorgeous!
 
Yes, every woman with long hair is out to get out, Merlin, especially those confidant, bold, educated women with Ph.Ds. 
 
You're really being a bit paranoid now.  If she were the owner of a hair products company, I'd be the first to agree with you.   But she's a researcher at a university.  You don't like the results, and you'll nit-pick with completely inconsequential items to try to talk yourself into believing that the poll is completely invalid.
 
You seem to be trying to convince everyone (maybe yourself?) that long hair is not attractive and short hair women are these rare and elusive birds that men secretly crave. 
 
I truly like to see a variety of hairstyles on women (not bald, though) and my original question had nothing to do with trying to "prove" that long haired women are somehow more superior (which I don't believe at all) to other women.  However, you've kind of turned the discussion into that, unfortunately.   There's nothing at all wrong with anyone preferring short hair on women, but I think it's wrong for society to present such propaganda (even misleading) to women to cut it short.  Lots of companies and businesses benefit when women cut their hair short, so it's to their benefit to try to talk women into cutting off and keeping off their long hair.
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Edit, an earlier edited post appeared here as a new post,  I have no idea how I did that.



Edited by anne6000 - July 06 2006 at 5:50pm
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Dear me, this is geting intersting now.

I'm in the UK, I've not seen those car ads and have no desire to either.  Oddly, most of our ads focus on the cars, not odd little fetishes. 
I also have no idea what Hooters is, but their homepage told me that they do swimsuit pageants, sell dvds and do a calendar of skantily clad women.  No, I wouldn't say this was unbiased.
 
Merlin, you have a painfully biased sample.  The original study had 50 (a moderate sized sample)  men and six variations.  This would be accepted as scientific.  Also, they used the same woman for three of the pictures, making hers a control face - the only variation was her hairstyle. 
 
I studied psychology too.
http://www.myspace.com/waltzin_with_the_open_sea
Ah-ha, a place I can soon add hair pics...once I do some
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2006 at 8:54am
I feel brutally attacked by now.  I don't think I have attempted to convince anyone to do anything or think in any way.  I simply participated in what I believed to be an open discussion.  The woman I spent last night with had long blonde hair, shoulder blade length.  I didn't request her to get a haircut or even believe she would look better with short hair.  Why does Anne feel the need to attack me and form opinions of me?  Maybe she is the one who is insecure and paranoid of her appearance and is trying to convince the world to grow out their hair to be like her.  Maybe people who see her honestly think she would look better with shorter hair.  Some women do.  Notice here, SOME WOMEN, not ALL.
 
As for the theory that hairstylist are biased due to the almighty $$$, I suppose they never made money off the beehive, perming, coloring,or by selling lots of shampoo, conditioners and other products to maintain long locks.  How about brushes and blow dryers?  Seems money is made off of long hair just as much as short hair. 
 
She states in her original post,
 
"However, in practice, think about the vast majority of women you see in public places like grocery stores, doctor's offices, driver's license places, and things like that.  What length of hair do the majority of women (at least in the US) have?  I've traveled the US from each coast and have been to many places.  Completely objectively, I can say that the vast majority of women (not counting teenage girls, who do tend to have longer hair) have hair above collar length.  Short hair IS the norm in society.  I'm not criticizing that, but I'm just making an observation." 
 
Yet no one else on this thread has agreed with her. 
 
She agrees with my observation on what constitutes long hair.  Yet, per the results of my informal survey, long hair clearly is dominate in U.S. Culture.  She offers grocery stores as a public place to prove her theory, but the grocery stores I surveyed had the second smallest percentage of short haired women, only behind Hooters.  The strip club had the largest percentage of short haired women, completely devastating her theory.  I never provided a breakdown of the numbers in the former post, yet Anne6000 assumed Hooters and the strip club were dominated by long haired women.  Sorry, Hooters yes, strip club, no.
 
Ask an accountant, "What is two plus two?", and a good one will tell you, "What do you want it to be?".  Pollsters are the same.  Sorry, but that is just the way the world works. 
 
As for time wasted to nit-pik and prove a point.  Not at all, this is what I do for creative ideas.  I post on boards of various topics all over the net.  I observe socialogical tendancies.  This is why my music and lyrics have meaning and depth.  I am not out to prove any point at all, just observe.  I only disagreed with Anne6000's opinion that U.S. culture is dominated, coast to coast, with short hairstyles for women.  I still disagree, only more confidently due to my research. 
 
This will be my last post on this thread as I don't tend to be argumentative and I feel this thread has definitely turned in that direction.  Sorry Anne6000.
 
I can barely conjure myself out of bed, let alone conjure up the devil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 07 2006 at 10:43am
Hi enfys,
 
Originally posted by enfys enfys wrote:

Merlin, you have a painfully biased sample.  The original study had 50 (a moderate sized sample)  men and six variations.  This would be accepted as scientific.  Also, they used the same woman for three of the pictures, making hers a control face - the only variation was her hairstyle. 
 
I studied psychology too.
 
Hooters is a restaurant where the women are almost exclusively large-breasted and wear tight tops, and according to Merlin's informal study, most have long hair in his local chain.  Again, the reason is obvious:  most guys prefer long hair on women!  I have nothing against the place, but there isn't one near where I live.  It is definitely a specialty restaurant, so you're right, it is highly biased.
 
Excuse me now, please, because I have to run a few errands like everyone else, you know, so I thought I'd take the kids and stop in at my local strip club and then off to lunch at Hooter's.  I'll probably run into lots of friends and neighbors there, of course. 
 
In all seriousness, Merlin, I wasn't trying to attack you at all, but what you said simply didn't make sense.  If you personally find short haired women more confidant and bold, I can't argue with your personal preferences.  What I was at first seeking was the logical argument behind it, and there doesn't appear to be one.  Since you prefer short hair on women, it would be logical for you to think those women are in short supply. 
 
Earlier, Merlin, you were seriously questioning the possible bias of the university study but didn't provide any evidence that the university would benefit from finding that men preferred long hair on women.  Yet, you included in your informal study (and you wanted to prove that long hair was the norm) you went to places where I think most of us would be surprised if short hair were the norm!  That bias for the places you chose was very clear.  It would be like my going to a senior citizen's center and claiming that the majority of women have short hair -- of course they do in that particular place.  Same with a strip club and Hooter's, only with long hair being the norm.  Because......that's what guys prefer, and those places cater predominantly to men.
 
Taking a look at hairstyle magazines in a salon, you'll find that the vast majority of styles and cuts are short.  If most women had long hair, the business side of the magazines would dictate that they cater to the majority of their paying clients and the trends would reflect that long hair and show more long hair styles.  Either that, or they're, once again providing pressure for women to cut their hair by not offering many other alternatives than short styles.
 
 


Edited by anne6000 - July 07 2006 at 10:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SanFranBrent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 12:57am
Of the men I know;
The majority of men under 25 seem to like long hair on women.
The majority of men over 25 seem to like short hairstyles on women.

Most of the men I know have wives or ladyfriends who have short hairstyles, and they seem to like those short hairstyles on their wives or ladyfriends. Most of the men I know are over the age of 25, which might explain why they prefer short hairstyles on their women.

But I am sure it varies from one man to another, regardless of the man's age. Different men like different hair lengths and hairstyles on beautiful women. Which is very good I believe.

I believe that many men and women associate long hair on women with a "girly" look (unless they wear it up in a bun or an updo), and short, fashionable hairstyles on women as more "professional" or "grown up".
I believe that is why the majority of women over the age of 25 wear short hairstyles, or somewhat short hairstyles.
However this is a generalization. There are obviously many exceptions to this.

Some people also associate long hair on women over the age of 25 with "bimboism". But that usually only applies to women who wear their long hair "puffed up" in the "big hair" style.

I know that many people associate short, chic, fashionable hairstyles on women with professionalism, intelligence, urbanity, being well-educated, and being fashionable. Short hair is more associated with the modern, liberated, metropolitan, cosmopolitan woman. Long hair more with the old fashioned, rural woman.

As I stated, this is a generalization, but you could take your average 35 year old working woman, or housewife with two kids, who lives in a major metropolitan area, and the chances are she has a short hairstyle.
This same 35 year old working woman or housewife with two kids who lives in the rural south or the rural midwest would be more inclined to have long hair or "big hair", than the woman living in Chicago, New York City, San Francisco or some of the other major metropolitan areas.
There are of course, many exceptions to this, and it isn't good to generalize too much on this topic.

To me it is irrelevant whether long hair or short hair is more popular in urban or rural areas. People should wear their hair how they enjoy wearing it, whether they are 25, 31, 46, or 58 years old!. Just be yourself, and enjoy wearing your hair how you like to wear it! Geography and age shouldn't matter. Wear your hair how you like to wear your hair!

I personally, usually, prefer short hairstyles on women.  My ex wife, and most of the women I have been with, have worn short hairstyles.

I believe though that people are individuals, and that both men and women should wear their hair whatever length they like.
But as I stated, I could care less what style is the most popular.
You shouldn't wear your hair a certain length or style, just because you believe that length or style is the most popular. You should wear what you enjoy wearing and what looks good on you.

There are huge numbers of women these days who wear short, chin length, bob cuts. Does that mean that every woman should wear a short bob hairstyle? What if the woman wants to wear ultra-long hair? Or the woman wants to wear an ultra-short pixie hairstyle? Plenty of ladies wear those hairstyles also, and look feminine and very beautiful in those hairstyles!

I also believe that it is important to be yourself. If you are a man or a woman that loves wearing ultra-long hair, then wear it!
The same thing with short hair, even ultra-short hair on women!

Thank goodness we are living in a free society, in a day and age, where people, both men and women, can wear their hair however they like.

And don't worry about whether your hairstyle is attractive or not to others. If you are a woman who wears long hair, many men will be attracted to you.
If you are a woman who wears a short hairstyle, many men will also be attracted to you.
There are plenty of men who like both on women.
The same with women regarding men. There are many women who like both short hair, or long hair, on men.

Also, there is much more than hair length, or the style of hair, that makes men and women attracted to each other.
What attracts me to a woman is not only her hairstyle, but her face, her body, how she dresses, her makeup, earrings and jewelry, her personality, her intelligence, her kindness, her interests, all of that.



p.s. - The idiots of the world go to Hooters. Junk food, junk women.
Yes, the waitresses there have lovely big boobs, but many (not all) of the women there are idiots, and the men (many of them) that go there are often even more idiotic than the women are.
It is a perfect example of the dumbing down of America. Too big of portions of junk food served by idiotic big breasted, big haired women, serving the food to stupid, obese drunken men.
For those people with intelligence and class it is much better for a man to take out his beautiful lady to a nice resturaunt or dinner club, get some good food and drink, and enjoy a more intelligent and classy place. There are even places that are very affordable that have more class, that would be a better place to take a lady.
And if a guy is out on the town with his buddies, a classy nightclub, or even certain classy strip joints might be better. Often better looking women at the nightclubs or strip clubs also.


Edited by SanFranBrent - July 09 2006 at 3:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kuroneko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 4:22am
What are the titles of those magazines?  It seems like every time I'm looking for new hairstyle ideas, even if I pick up a specifically short hair mag, like half the pages are full of shoulder-length hair instead :-P .  It feels like a waste of money to spend $5-6 on a magazine and get maybe a handful of usable pictures.
 
Originally posted by anne6000 anne6000 wrote:

 
Taking a look at hairstyle magazines in a salon, you'll find that the vast majority of styles and cuts are short.  
 
More awesome than a manatee!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SanFranBrent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 6:50am
Kuroneko,
Short hair on women in so-called "mainstream" fashion magazines means anything from a short pixie to shoulder length hair, or anything in between, (even though shoulder length hair is actually medium length hair on modern women these days, if you look at women in everyday society).

Edited by SanFranBrent - July 09 2006 at 6:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 9:17pm
Hi Brent,
 
It's interesting how this discussion veered off in another direction!
 
Originally posted by SanFranBrent SanFranBrent wrote:

 I believe that many men and women associate long hair on women with a "girly" look (unless they wear it up in a bun or an updo), and short, fashionable hairstyles on women as more "professional" or "grown up".
 
Do you think that hair, just because of its short length is automatically "fashionable"?  
 
If not, what is "unfashionable" short hair?
 
Many women with short hair do like to follow the latest trends.  The only problem is that after awhile they can tend to blend in together in a crowd.  I rarely see women with ultra long hair, but when I do, they turn heads in every direction!
 
I also think that many men and women associate long hair on women as very sophisticated and short hair as something that is simple and mainstream.

Quote Some people also associate long hair on women over the age of 25 with "bimboism". But that usually only applies to women who wear their long hair "puffed up" in the "big hair" style.
 
I agree with really big, puffed up hair as being rather bimbo-like.  I don't care for it at all.  Sometimes women with short hair try to do the same even with as little as they have!
 
Quote As I stated, this is a generalization, but you could take your average 35 year old working woman, or housewife with two kids, who lives in a major metropolitan area, and the chances are she has a short hairstyle.
This same 35 year old working woman or housewife with two kids who lives in the rural south or the rural midwest would be more inclined to have long hair or "big hair", than the woman living in Chicago, New York City, San Francisco or some of the other major metropolitan areas.
There are of course, many exceptions to this, and it isn't good to generalize too much on this topic.
 
I think to think the opposite -- the cities have the women with the long, sophisticated and elegant styles and the rural women have the simple, short hair.  I do live in the rural midwestern, and I see many, many more women with short, easy hair than with longer locks.

Quote I personally, usually, prefer short hairstyles on women.  My ex wife, and most of the women I have been with, have worn short hairstyles.
 
Maybe this is too personal of a question (and I apologize if it is), but since you're growing your hair long, do you like to see somewhat of a reversal of traditional sex roles?
 
Quote What attracts me to a woman is not only her hairstyle, but her face, her body, how she dresses, her makeup, earrings and jewelry, her personality, her intelligence, her kindness, her interests, all of that.
 
I never thought many men cared a great deal about make-up or jewelry on a woman.  I think one thing that would scare me about wearing short hair is that I'd always have to wear lots of make-up and jewelry and dress up to really look feminine.  In all the pictures I've seen of short haired women, they are always made up.  It would be interesting to take away all the accessories and look at women and their hair.

Quote Too big of portions of junk food served by idiotic big breasted, big haired women, serving the food to stupid, obese drunken men.
 
LOL!  I'm glad you said that. 

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SanFranBrent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2006 at 10:36pm
Anne,
Obviously there are sophisticated women who live in major metros who have both long hair and short hairstyles, and there are short hairstyles on women as well as long haired women in rural areas. I was making a generalized statement.
As I stated, it isn't good to generalize too much on this.
Generally though, short, sophisticated hairstyles are worn by many women in the major metro areas and are considered cosmopolitan and fashionable.

I am glad you got a chuckle out of my Hooters statement.


Edited by SanFranBrent - July 09 2006 at 10:37pm
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Anne,
 
No matter what you are told, choose a style and length that you like.  When you are comfortable with yourself, others will be comfortable with you.
 
Dave addressed a study on preference that would indicate people prefer longer hair on women.  Some years earlier Physique commissioned a study conducted by Yale University on perceptions.  Perceptions and preferences are two different subjects.
 
The Yale study concluded women with short hair are PERCEIVED as more outgoing and confident, while women with long hair are perceived as sexy and affluent, and women with medium hair as intelligent and good-natured.  (http://www.physique.com/usa/sn/sn_yale-study2.asp)
 
It is not unusual for people to dress to shape the perceptions of others, so it wouldn't be unusual for people to choose a hair length or style the same way.
 
What neither study presents is an accurate capsule of how women with differing hair lengths see themselves.  Not all women with long hair are affluent (in my area most women with very long hair are also very poor).  Conversely, some women with very long hair are affluent, confident, and successful.  There is no study of actual common traits women with various hair lengths or styles may share.  Studies thus far are concentrated on the preferences and perceptions of others.
 
Be comfortable with your choice and people will accept it.
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I agree, pick a style that you are comfortable with.

You could do twenty different studies on hairstyle preferences on women and get twenty different results.

The studies are irrelevant anyway. Studies are just academic. You don't live with a study, you live with yourself.
What really matters is what hairstyle you like on yourself (and if you have one, what hairstyle your significant other likes on you).


Edited by SanFranBrent - July 10 2006 at 7:15pm
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Originally posted by SanFranBrent SanFranBrent wrote:

What really matters is what hairstyle you like on yourself
 
I think most agree.  However, there are some stylists and others who seem to want to suggest, sometimes obviously and sometimes not, that we'd look better in another hairstyle.  If someone is asking for opinions, then the opinions should be welcomed, even if they don't agree with what the person him or herself really thinks. 
 
The problem, at least for me, is when people "suggest" that I should cut my hair shorter when I haven't asked for an opinion.  When I went for hair consultations, I should expect honest opinions, no matter what they are.  But all the subtle hints and even less subtle hints when I haven't asked for them are not appreciated (it hasn't happened here on the forum, but with people I know in real life).  I'd also say the very same thing for someone with short hair who receives unwanted suggestions that they grow their hair longer.
 
 
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Originally posted by anne6000 anne6000 wrote:

 
The problem, at least for me, is when people "suggest" that I should cut my hair shorter when I haven't asked for an opinion.  When I went for hair consultations, I should expect honest opinions, no matter what they are.  But all the subtle hints and even less subtle hints when I haven't asked for them are not appreciated (it hasn't happened here on the forum, but with people I know in real life).  I'd also say the very same thing for someone with short hair who receives unwanted suggestions that they grow their hair longer.
 
 
 
Tell the person offering the opinons, hints, suggestions "I would, but then when people see us together the problem with your ( insert one: nose, ears, teeth, neck, choice of attire ) will be more obvisious.  Then smile and walk away.  (PS ... my choice would be nose since they are sticking it where it's not wanted.)
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Originally posted by noleftturn noleftturn wrote:

 Tell the person offering the opinons, hints, suggestions "I would, but then when people see us together the problem with your ( insert one: nose, ears, teeth, neck, choice of attire ) will be more obvisious.  Then smile and walk away.  (PS ... my choice would be nose since they are sticking it where it's not wanted.)
 
LOL!  May I quote you on this? 
 
Despite the fact that I don't have short hair, I think I'm growing more confident by the day.  Thanks very much.
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Originally posted by anne6000 anne6000 wrote:

LOL!  May I quote you on this? 
 
Despite the fact that I don't have short hair, I think I'm growing more confident by the day.  Thanks very much.
 
Quote me if you please 
 
You used the magic word, confident!  I've known women with extremely long hair to no hair that were confident.  It's an attribute I profoundly respect in women.  Not all men (or even women) appreciate a confident woman.  I can understand why people perceive women with short hair as having confidence, as it seems something only a confident woman would do.  But again, I've known women with every conceivable length of hair that had confidence, or lacked it.  You are on the right track, and eventually people will see you as confident regardless of your hair length or style.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 15 2006 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by anne6000 anne6000 wrote:

Despite the fact that I don't have short hair, I think I'm growing more confident by the day.
 
Me too...
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Wow!  This is one heckofa thread!  I had no idea people could get so worked up over hair length!  I guess maybe it is regional to some degree.  I have lived in the pacific northwest for the last twenty or so years and maybe we're just too laid back to care.  Long, short, brown, blonde, mohawk, green...whatever works for you.  We do see less "big hair" here, maybe because of the rain or because of our "active, outdoor lifestyles."   The goal here seems to be "low-maintenance."   


Edited by auramae - July 16 2006 at 10:26am
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I have always had long hair. I am a casual person, and being that my long hair air dries completely straight, therefore looking "done"... it is convenient.

I think next week I am going to cut it... short for me... a bob, above the shoulder for sure. Why?

Because, generally speaking, I am an adventurous person. I like to try new food, new drinks, new things, and visit new places. My hair has been every length between below my shoulders and the bottom of my jeans pockets. It has been layered, dyed black, I've used pink hair mascara, and had highlights (loooongasp time ago). It always reverts to mid-back to waist length and my natural brown, as i am sure it will after this cut.

I just want to try something new... like I've been doing... I'm just going shorter.
I won't be any more assertive, outgoing, or any other personality aspect... just like I don't think I was any less of an adventurous person when all my hair experimentation occured at the below the shoulder lenght.

Does it JUST SO HAPPEN that I am graduating college and I might look a little more professional? Sure. Will my mom probably not like it? Sure.. but she sure didn't like my hair pitch black either...
Does it turn out that my boyfriend DOES like the idea of shorter hair (yup... that was a surprise..)... will that stop me from growing it down to my rear end again... nope.. absolutely not...

Am I nervous about cutting off almost a foot of hair.. HELL YES... I am VAIN... I'll love it if it looks good, hate it if it doesn't...

Just like I hated my hair being black until I went to the tanning bed, and no longer looked like Morticia Aadams.. then I loved it! (Boy did waist length black hair make my shower dirty... I woudl never do THAT again for that reason...)

Edited by browneyedgirl83 - July 24 2006 at 3:30pm
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anne6000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2006 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by browneyedgirl83 browneyedgirl83 wrote:

I won't be any more assertive, outgoing, or any other personality aspect... just like I don't think I was any less of an adventurous person when all my hair experimentation occured at the below the shoulder lenght.
 
Thanks, browneyedgirl.  It's great that guys love a variety of lengths on a woman, from very short to very long!  However, saying that one length somehow makes the woman more daring or confident is just silly.  The personality is what makes a person who she is, not her hair length.
 
 
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