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anne6000 View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 15 2006 at 11:38am
One thing that I've constantly been told by people (especially stylists) is that men are more attracted to women with short  hair because the short hair defies the traditional definition of femininity, so that means that the woman is more confident and daring.  Although I don't agree, I suppose in theory, it may make sense.
 
However, in practice, think about the vast majority of women you see in public places like grocery stores, doctor's offices, driver's license places, and things like that.  What length of hair do the majority of women (at least in the US) have?  I've traveled the US from each coast and have been to many places.  Completely objectively, I can say that the vast majority of women (not counting teenage girls, who do tend to have longer hair) have hair above collar length.  Short hair IS the norm in society.  I'm not criticizing that, but I'm just making an observation.
 
So, how can people say that short hair makes a woman appear more daring and self-confident when not only do the majority of women have that short hair, but almost every guy I know seems to prefer long hair on women?
 
I know that the statement was said to me in an effort to convince me to cut my hair, but I've also read the same thing in various places about how men are attracted to women with short hair because of the "confident" factor.
 
Yet, I just do not see that at all.  Does anyone else? 
 
What prompted this post is that yesterday, I had a treat and had a manicure at a salon.  The manicurist, also a stylist, had short hair, not ultra short, but just regular short, like most women.  My appointment had nothing to do with hair, yet out of the blue she made the comment.  Why?  Was she envious of my longer hair (my hair isn't even that long!)?  Or, did she think that my hair was inappropriate for my age?
 
I'm really baffled by the comments linking short hair with confidence and daring.  Since most women have short hair, it seems to me that the people with long hair (especially guys!) are the more confident and daring ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 17 2006 at 12:12pm
Oh Anne... the subject line is "exhibit A" of the cognitive dissonance sown by your stylist...

Always bear in mind that stylists have potential conflicts of interest.  Their job, quite literally, is to convince people to part with their money (the more you part with, the better for them).  This is not intended to be an indictment of stylists in general, just a precaution that the things they tell you may have more to do with them keeping their eye on their personal "bottom line" than to do with being truthful.

The only evidentiary study I'm aware of (regarding men's preference for women's hair length) was performed at Florida State University.  Here's a link to it (go to page 4 of the PDF):

http://www.psychology.sunysb.edu/psychology/news/newsletter/newsletter5.pdf

Most (but not all) of the men I have talked with on the subject prefer long hair to short; and mostly mid-back to waist-length, or longer.  I've only known (or known of) a few men who prefer short hair on women.  There are certainly fans of short hair in the Short Hair forum, and some also participate in the Celebrities forum.

There are probably a few men who like women being defiant, but I think there are lots of men who like strong women.  There is a difference.

I don't understand your stylist's comments.  Why would men prefer women to defy traditional definitions of femininity?  Aside from their personalities, men like women that look attractive - and for most men, long hair definitely enhances a woman's appearance.

In general, I think people are more daring and self-confident when they don't feel pressured to do something they don't want to do.  If you want long hair and don't feel attractive with it short, then you will probably be more daring and self-confident with long hair.

One more thing - the notion of long hair being inappropriate for "older" people is a myth.  I know of many women who are in their 40's and beyond who have beautiful long, long hair -- and they look great.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 18 2006 at 9:59am
Dear Dave,
 
I'll try to sum up my feelings about what you wrote here....you are brilliant, I love you, you are incredibly astute, you are my god....!!
 
Sorry, I don't want to embarrass you, and yes, I know you're just as human as the rest of us, but you really do have an insight that is so refreshing to those of us who live in the generic world where what  is thrown out at us is just supposed to be absorbed without any real thought.
 
I'll be the first to say (and I honestly think you'd say the same thing) that any woman who really loves short hair all by herself, without any coaxing from anyone, should of course keep her hair cut short.  It's her hair, and she should do what she wants with it!  However, I just feel that there are so many different ways (with my example about the "daring" women with short hair in my above post) that women (and I can't imagine the pressure you, as a man, have to endure) are told that they just shouldn't have long hair, especially past a certain age.
 
Thank you very much for that study!  It's just what I thought and although I realize that not every man loves long hair on a woman, the majority do. 

Quote There are probably a few men who like women being defiant, but I think there are lots of men who like strong women.  There is a difference.
 
I think you're very keen with this statement, and I couldn't agree more.

Quote I don't understand your stylist's comments.  Why would men prefer women to defy traditional definitions of femininity?
 
I think the reasoning is that the woman is just supposed to be so ultra confident of her femininity that all her other areas of personality overshadow the fact that she's wearing short hair, traditionally seen as unfeminine.  Oddly enough, though, I've never seen a woman "that feminine" that fit that description.
 
Quote One more thing - the notion of long hair being inappropriate for "older" people is a myth.  I know of many women who are in their 40's and beyond who have beautiful long, long hair -- and they look great.
 
I don't have a Swiss bank account, but when I do, you'll be the first one with the key and password!  I don't want to gush, but I just can't tell you how wonderful it is to hear your viewpoint.  I know that a lot of women here share it, and I appreciate it, but it just seems somehow stronger coming from someone who isn't in that situation (naturally, a woman who is over 40 and has long hair is going to agree, and it isn't that her opinion is any less valid than anyone else, but hopefully you know what I'm trying to say here)
 
Thanks for everything, Dave, and all the other great people here.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tyranna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2006 at 2:01pm

Dave is correct - most stylists are short-hair biased because shorter hairstyles provide for them (1) a better guarantee for return customers; and (2) an easier job to perform.  There are many stylists that see working and shaping longer styles simply as too much work.  (Stylist Nick on that TV show 'What Not to Wear' is exactly like this.  He can be quite excellent at shaping and improving longer hair, but he ALWAYS prefers to cut the hair instead.)

 

And shorter hair styles means less time in the styling chair for you and more turnaround time for customers for the hair stylist, which means more $$$.

 

The majority of guys I have known in my entire life prefer longer hair on women.  Anna Kournukova for example, would not have ever become an international beauty sensation had she worn her hair really short.  Healthy long hair definitely has an exotic appeal. 

 

I honestly do not know where this idea that a woman with long hair has self-esteem issues came from.  Besides, I would say the majority of fashion models and actresses these days all have longer hair.

 

And I do not think that short hair should be considered the "norm".  My impression is that I see women (and girls) with all kinds of variety in hair length.  And this is a good thing.   Freedom of choice is always better than having only one alternative.   If you look at a period – the early to mid 1950s is a great example, you will see what I mean.  Almost all women had these horribly stiff, butchered, flat, lifeless short hair styles.  Blecch! 

 

Just as it is bad to condemn people with long hair, it is bad to put down those that prefer shorter hair.  We should all have the choice and damn the stylists.  They are there, after all, to service us.  We are their customers.

 

Where you frequently see women tend to cut their hair is usually during life transitions.  Teenage girls who have had long hair all during their childhood will sometimes cut it short.  Many a new mother will cut her hair.  Often it is for convenience, but also it is because she is married and has produced off-spring, therefore she can now put less into her sexual appearance since she accomplished her goal.  (Actually and not just in regards to hair, this is something you can see happen with both spouses after marriage - less attention to physical appearance and desirability because they have successfully completed courtship and now have their mates.)  So that kind of blows the whole 'women have shorter hair to be more sexually alluring' argument out of the water.

 

To the age argument that women over a certain age should cut their hair, this is simply an old attitude that continues to cling to our culture.  And it used to be the exact opposite.  So it is entirely arbitrary. 

 

Besides, I recall an interview I saw once with Tina Turner.  She was asked how she kept looking so young and she explained it as follows.  If you are told all your life that at 40 you must cut your hair and start wearing matronly banker-wives clothes and act like a middle age women - you will look exactly like a matronly 40+ year-old woman if you should so follow suit.

 

Also given the growing popularity of hair extensions, I would say that longer hair styles remain very much in vogue.   But that brings us right back to the profit line for hair stylists.  In our fast-food culture, not many people have the patience to grow long hair.  Trends like perming, straightening, and extreme coloring* add further roadblocks to achieving long, healthy hair.  Hair extensions get around that and someone with damaged, over-processed hair (like a Paris Hilton) can magically have two feet of hair length added. 

 

Course the price tag for this is high.  I like to check out the extensions forum, because it is cool to see what kinds of hair styles they create.  But they casually talk about the costs which ranges anywhere from several hundred dollars to $4500 (in one example).  So if a stylist has the opportunity to score $4500, why would they even want to encourage longer hair growth?  And the extension process itself can be damaging, which means you are right back at the stylist forking over yet more money to fix your “problem hair”.

 

We need to cultivate our own appearances, not what Madison Avenue dictates.  If you like longer hair – go for it. 

 

*(I consider extreme coloring things like the Gwen Steffani platinum white, or the unfortunate trend with gothic black.  Both treatments are extraordinarily damaging to one's hair and the real horror stories occur when a person wants to go from black to white blond or vise-versa.   LOL, the hair color forum seems to be so frequently inundated with these kinds of screw-ups, it is a wonder they do not have a sticky devoted to just that one topic.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kuroneko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2006 at 11:40pm

Based on what I've seen, the usual hair length for American women is anywhere between shoulder-length and mid-back, which is far from short.  A lot of women keep their hair long because they think that's what men are attracted to.

In all honesty, though, aside from the guys who are specifically hair fans, most guys probably don't care what a woman's hair looks like.  Most of them won't notice of care much if their woman changes her hair, because men just aren't societally trained to notice that kind of thing.  It's just like how a guy won't notice if a woman is wearing a new blouse-- males are societally trained not to care about anything fashion-related.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 9:13am

It seems Anne6000 brings up the same question frequently asked in these forums.  What do men really like about women and their hair?  I would say that men can be divided into three groups.  Long hair lovers, short hair lovers and "I don't care as long as they are gorgeous" lovers.  As far as beauty and sex appeal are concerned, I could care less.  I don't pay attention to polls or University studies because they are flawed from conception.  Most polls are biased and select their audience and participants based upon the desired result.  Further, men will cover their true feelings if their identity is known as they fear being labeled.  We are conditioned from early youth that long hair, large breast, hourglass figure is the only acceptable form of sexual attractiveness.  I honestly say that I see women with short hair or ultrashort hair as more confident and independent.  This does not mean that this is true for all women, just a general observation.  This attitude appeals to me due to the person I am. 

 Some people choose their profession, mine chose me.  As a musician, I prefer independent, confident, non-traditional women.  At least in my experience, short haired girls fit this mold more often than long haired girls.  Short haired girls are definitely more of a challenge and are more daring.  The long-haired girls I meet are predictably traditional down home girls.  What is really interesting is that they believe they are daring and party girls, but generally speaking, they don't even have a clue.  For the evening, give me either.  For a relationship, give me the short haired girls!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 29 2006 at 11:18am
Originally posted by Merlin101 Merlin101 wrote:

[quote] As a musician, I prefer independent, confident, non-traditional women. 
 
Regarding hair length, a non-traditional woman is one with long hair in western society.  So, there is a contradiction in what you say.  And that contradiction is what I'm questioning.   I sense you feel threatened by the question, and I'm very sorry because I'm only trying to understand the reasoning of seeing a "non-traditional" girl as one who has short hair, when short hair is the average or the norm (among adult women, not teenagers)
 
And yet, no one can explain this; that's why it must be a fallacy.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2006 at 7:20am
I'm not sure where you live or which age group you are referring to, but down South, the under 40 group is heavily weighted to long hair and has been since the 80's era.  This is the age group I see the most since we don't play country or gospel.  I would have to say the same for Hollywood as well.  We haven't toured the west coast in a year or so, but I'll bet things haven't changed. 
 
Now if you are referring to the over 60 group, you are right on.  Short hair dominates. 
I can barely conjure myself out of bed, let alone conjure up the devil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 30 2006 at 9:29am
If you're judging a general population only by the audience at a music concert, then I can understand!  Take a look around.  Go to the grocery store, to the bank, to your local gym, and just look at the population in general.  There's no doubt that short rules.  TV news reporters rarely have long hair (it isn't "professional" you know).  As for Hollywood, look at a magazine for "celebrity hair" the next time you're at a magazine rack.  Lots and lots of celebs with short or very short hair.   A woman with long hair, especially very long hair, will always stand apart from the crowd.  I mean no offense at all, but short hair just blends in with the crowd because that's how the crowd usually wears their hair -- both men and women.  There's nothing wrong with that, but that's what provoked my original question. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2006 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Kuroneko Kuroneko wrote:

A lot of women keep their hair long because they think that's what men are attracted to.
 
How do you know this to be true?  You state it as fact, without any support.  I rather believe most of the women wearing their hair long have it long because they like it, and prefer it to short... but then notice how I've stated this -- as an opinion.
 
Originally posted by Kuroneko Kuroneko wrote:

 
In all honesty, though, aside from the guys who are specifically hair fans, most guys probably don't care what a woman's hair looks like.  Most of them won't notice of care much if their woman changes her hair, because men just aren't societally trained to notice that kind of thing.  It's just like how a guy won't notice if a woman is wearing a new blouse-- males are societally trained not to care about anything fashion-related.
 
Some people think of hair (and treat it thusly) primarily as fashion.  No doubt this perception has been counseled by fashion enterprises who seek to exploit this perception for their own gain.
 
My opinion:  Innately for men, however, women's hair is viewed as an object of beauty, so while nearly all men would fail to notice a woman's new shoes or whatever, they're far more likely to notice changes women make to their hair.
 
 
[edited first quote to provide proper context to my comment]


Edited by DaveDecker - July 02 2006 at 12:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2006 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Merlin101 Merlin101 wrote:

 I don't pay attention to polls or University studies because they are flawed from conception.  Most polls are biased and select their audience and participants based upon the desired result.  Further, men will cover their true feelings if their identity is known as they fear being labeled.
 
How do you know that the referenced survey wasn't conducted using well-established polling principles?  Might your dismissal of the referenced survey be based on it's disagreement with your preference?  Do you similarly disregard the validity of other such polls (not related to hair)?  Or only those with which you disagree?
 
Originally posted by Merlin101 Merlin101 wrote:

We are conditioned from early youth that long hair, large breast, hourglass figure is the only acceptable form of sexual attractiveness.
 
Unless of course such preferences are innate.  Other scientific studies have been done which support the definition of attraction you mention, because these features are indicative of health and fecundity.
 
Originally posted by Merlin101 Merlin101 wrote:

I honestly say that I see women with short hair or ultrashort hair as more confident and independent.  This does not mean that this is true for all women, just a general observation.
 
I just see confidence and independence as having the courage to do what you want.  I know many confident and independent women with long hair.  I don't see their decision to have long hair as a sign of weakness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Longhairdreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 01 2006 at 10:18pm
Interesting topic.
 
But I have to agree with kuroneko.I know very few short haired women.I very rarely ever see any women around here with short hair.
 
But It also seems to be true that most men(but not all) prefer long hair.
 
 
I also agree with merlin about being force fed the idea about the ideal woman. Its true that studies prove this to be a sign of fertility.But it also sends an unhealthy message to girls who are fine trying to live up this standard because its the ideal image.
This is one of the reasons that plastic surgery has become so prevalent.Its obviously not to be more fertile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveDecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 12:32pm
Hi LHD,
 
Of course plastic surgery does not affect fertility at all.  But such surgery done to appear more "average" (closer to normal - i.e., beautiful) is done to give the appearance of better health (and indirectly, fertility).
 
That said, I'm not a fan of plastic surgery, unless it is used to correct something obviously amiss.  Unfortunately these days, it seems, nearly all plastic surgery is not warranted (IMHO).
 
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I just wanted to say that although a lot of plastic surgery isn't needed it does serve a purpose that may not be seen at first glance.

I was born with a facial defect called cleft lip and cleft palate. My parents did not have the kind of money it would have taken to fix this. They found a doctor who told them "Don't worry about it. I make my money off of old ladies."

I'm just giving the quote that my mom told me he said. No offense meant to anyone who considers themself old.

There are many doctors who do similar things. Many of them travel to other countries to perform plastic surgery on people who have no access to surgery.

Unfortunately my doctor died in a plane crash in the late 80's. Meaning it's unfortunate that he's no longer around to help others.


Edited by PurpleBubba - July 02 2006 at 1:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 9:00pm
Originally posted by DaveDecker DaveDecker wrote:

 Unless of course such preferences are innate.
 
That's a great point.  Think about teeth.  Before modern dentistry, people who tended to have whiter, healthier teeth (and all of them!) were younger people.  Therefore, good teeth were a sign of not just youth, but good health.  Even today, if you look at the hair of people in their 80s, it can (but is not always the case of course) be very thin and just won't grow much.  Therefore, a woman with thick, long hair isn't just a sign of beauty but also of health.  Same with figures, being extremely overweight or underweight is not healthy, so those figures aren't just seen in terms of beauty but are seen in terms of health.  I'll be the first to argue that the Kate Moss chain-smoking figures are not only unhealthy, but not very attractive, and fortunately, I've never known a man who would prefer a skinny, unhealthy woman over a healthy woman with toned muscles and a healthy level of fat.
 
Quote I just see confidence and independence as having the courage to do what you want.  I know many confident and independent women with long hair.  I don't see their decision to have long hair as a sign of weakness.
 
Exactly!  Stylists generally encourage us to cut off our hair.  Magazine articles that talk about new hairstyles almost always talk about cutting it off.  It's the norm.  And, very sad to say, I nearly caved into pressure myself and cut my hair short.  However, the decision would have been the opposite of independent and confident.  I would have just been following the crowd.  So many articles that talk about hair rarely talk about growing it longer.  They talk about "getting rid of the long hair."  It seems to me that independent and confident is about going against society. 
 
In the 1920s, I would argue that the more confident and independent women cut their hair short.  But then, short hair became the norm in almost every decade, bar the 1960s.  (Maybe the word "short" should be defined.  If someone means that short hair is like a guy's butch cut with almost nothing to comb, then yes, the majority of women don't have such severe styles.)
 
Cutting the hair is physically very easy and can happen in a matter of minutes.  To grow hair longer takes a lot of time and patience.  (I'm not talking about the mental decision to cut or grow, only the physical action) It just seems to me that a confident woman is one who not only goes against the pressures of society but also one who takes the dedication and patience it requires to cut hair short.  I've read so many times that women who want to grow their hair just get so frustrated at the in-between styles that they just end up cutting it off.  I'm not criticizing that decision at all, but how that makes a woman more confident and independent is really the root of my question.  The statement seems a bit hypocritical since it's long hair that defies the rules of society.  For every Portia deRossi (sp?) or Jane Seymour, there are millions of Alyssa Milanos and Sharon Stones (with regard to hair length). 
 
The statement that short haired women are more confident and independent just seems to be propaganda since I can find no supporting evidence at all and when, in fact, long hair, especially very long hair, in western society is in the minority.    I think we should encourage everyone, both male and female, to wear their hair in whatever style and length THEY want.
 
Now, for guys with long hair, no question whatsoever.  Society says short hair for guys, so someone like Dave Decker is definitely going against the grain!  If he weren't confident of his decision, he'd be standing in line at the barber shop just like most guys.  (And I'm not trying to insult guys with short hair.  I love a variety of styles on both men and women. )  What I really rebel against is others pressuring you to do what they think you should do.  If I wanted short hair and others were pressuring me to grow it long (which rarely happens; I even asked about it on the short hair forum), I'd be just as indignant!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 02 2006 at 9:13pm
Here's a quote from Lem0605 to a post entitled "Should I go this short?" in the short hair forum:
 
Quote GO SHORT!! It's the thing to do for the summer.. look at all of the celebs going short.
 
So, is the confident woman doing what she wants or going short because it's the thing to do for the summer and all the celebs are going short?
 
That's exactly the kind of comments that many long-haired people get.  When was the last time someone asked how long she should grow her hair and received the reply, "GO LONG!!  It's the thing to do for winter.. look at all the celebs going long."?
 
I can only conclude that the mere act of cutting hair short has no more or less to do with confident and independence than a woman growing her hair long against the norms of society.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kuroneko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 04 2006 at 11:34pm
The statement was largely anecdotal, based on women I've spoken to, both online and off.  Unfortunately, that means I have no studies on hand to cite.  I'm sure many other short-haired women have been approached by long-haired women who said they liked short hair but didn't think their boyfriends/husbands would approve, or didn't think they could get dates that way.
 
I must've been living around a lot of unobservant males all my life, then ^_^; .  In my experience, it's been women who notice and comment at even the slightest hair change.  By the time most males notice I've made one hair change, I'm already pretty much over that style and ready to move on to the next!
 
Originally posted by DaveDecker DaveDecker wrote:

Originally posted by Kuroneko Kuroneko wrote:

A lot of women keep their hair long because they think that's what men are attracted to.
 
How do you know this to be true?  You state it as fact, without any support.  I rather believe most of the women wearing their hair long have it long because they like it, and prefer it to short... but then notice how I've stated this -- as an opinion.
 
Originally posted by Kuroneko Kuroneko wrote:

 
In all honesty, though, aside from the guys who are specifically hair fans, most guys probably don't care what a woman's hair looks like.  Most of them won't notice of care much if their woman changes her hair, because men just aren't societally trained to notice that kind of thing.  It's just like how a guy won't notice if a woman is wearing a new blouse-- males are societally trained not to care about anything fashion-related.
 
Some people think of hair (and treat it thusly) primarily as fashion.  No doubt this perception has been counseled by fashion enterprises who seek to exploit this perception for their own gain.
 
My opinion:  Innately for men, however, women's hair is viewed as an object of beauty, so while nearly all men would fail to notice a woman's new shoes or whatever, they're far more likely to notice changes women make to their hair.
 
 
[edited first quote to provide proper context to my comment]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 2:48pm

The University study referred to earlier is flawed in multiple ways as I am sure Dave researched and knows.  Selecting 50 men from a controlled group is not scientific.  Having only 6 choices of hair style is also not scientific.  This study only supports my argument to ignore polls.  Not all women are attractive with short hair.  I think we all can agree on this.  Courtney Thorne-Smith is a perfect example of someone whom should never again sport short hair.  Is it conceivable that the directors of the FSU-Panama City study wanted an outcome that "proved" men prefer long dark hair?  Maybe.  One way of doing this is to have pictures of a very unbecoming lady sporting various hairstyles and then having attractive women with long hairstyles, while asking men for their preference.  I spent 3 years studying Psychology, Sociology, and Anthropology before leaving college behind to focus on music.  I know a thing or two about polls.  Enough on that subject.

And yes Dave, I disagree with all polls.  See above for rationale.

Now to use a little anthropology education.  During the course of human evolution, perceptions as to attractive, healthiness and fertility have changed with culture.  That's right...CULTURE.  Some cultures over time held that overweight women and men were more attractive, as this meant they could afford food.  Other cultures including Europe in the Middle Ages held that only the fairest of skin was a sign of health.  In the South Pacific, women with facial tatoos are considered a thing of beauty.  Ancient Egypt felt men and women with no hair at all were the most attractive.  It is a cultural evolution that brings us today to believe women with long hair, an hourglass figure and a healthy tan are the most beautiful.  Please check out beauty pagents.  Virtually all women have long locks and all have that "Barbie Doll" figure. 

As for confidence, it is my opinion, that women with short hair are bold and confident.  This is a general statement and my general belief.  It is shared by the marketing companies of big business.  Witness, TV commercial for Ban Rollon, woman getting hair cut shorter and shorter while verbally saying, "nervous is getting your hair cut...and cut...and cut..".  If this is not a bold move, why be nervous?  Act II, Ford commercial with lady shaving her head.  The tagline Ford uses(or their marketing agent).  BOLD.  Can all these marketing giants be wrong?  Possibly, if they used polls to make these judgements. 

To Anne6000,  I think we have different understandings of short or long hair.  If long is defined as mid-back or longer and short is everything else, I concur with you that society currently prefers short hair.  Personally, I consider hair past the shoulders as long, hair close to shoulder length as medium and hair off the shoulder as short.  Using my definition, and your suggestion, I conducted a study(not scientific albeit) over the last week.  I visited two grocery stores, two malls, one strip club, three Hooters restaurants and one baseball game with my son.  I strived to estimate the ages of those counted to only include women between 20-50, as you stated most teenage girls prefer long hair.  This study covered one small town, Charleston, SC and Jacksonville, FL.  Conclusions with my definitions:

64% Long(7% Mid-Back or Below)
25% Medium
11% Short(3% Short Crop)
 
My assumption of your definition of Long=Mid Back and Below:
 
93% Short
7% Long
 
We both win.  Additionally, I have new material and a great video concept.  Keep watching FUSE and you just might find out the secrets of Merlin.
 
P.S.  To me, a woman of beauty is petite, blonde (usually short) with color highlights, tasteful tattoos, body piercings (not facial) and one killer-kick butt/take no prisoner attitude.  One confident to do what she wants and ask no one for their opinion.  Bra size doesn't matter, but being a compassionate caring mother to my kid does.
 
Keep Rockin, looking to the future and never waste a moment lamenting about the past!!!
 

 

 

 

I can barely conjure myself out of bed, let alone conjure up the devil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merlin101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 3:29pm
Check out this picture of Ms. Kline. 
 
She is the researcher that conducted the study that Dave refers to above.  Maybe she was looking for a particular conclusion when she conducted her research.  Her conclusion as read from the link that Dave provided was that women and men prefer women with long dark hair. 
 
Is it coincidence that she has long dark hair???  Decide for yourself after checking out her picture.
 
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.psy.fsu.edu/faculty/kkline.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.psy.fsu.edu/faculty/kkline.dp.html&h=211&w=140&sz=7&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=c--wt9V5slynfM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=67&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522kelley%2Bkline%2522%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
 
Polls are useless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote anne6000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 06 2006 at 4:41pm

Originally posted by Merlin101 Merlin101 wrote:

Is it conceivable that the directors of the FSU-Panama City study wanted an outcome that "proved" men prefer long dark hair?

 
Nearly anything in life is conceivable, and it's a good question.  Was this study funded by someone who has a vested interested in short hair products?  Healthy skepticism is very good, and I do it myself.  However, what if the results had gone the other way?   You have no basis for your premise other than it's what you wish to believe.   When tobacco companies conduct studies on the dangers of tobacco, obviously the outcome directly affects the company.  If Clairol does a study on women and hair color, they have a vested interest in the outcome.  What vested interest does a university have in what length of hair men prefer on women?  
 
 
Quote Witness, TV commercial for Ban Rollon, woman getting hair cut shorter and shorter while verbally saying, "nervous is getting your hair cut...and cut...and cut..".  If this is not a bold move, why be nervous?
 
Because she doesn't sound very confident of what she's doing.  Maybe she's nervous because she feels pressured into the decision, like I have felt.  If I wanted my hair cut short, then I'd sit there and be confident and happy about the hair falling, not nervous!   I don't watch tv, so I'm not familiar with the ad, but it sounds like yet another ploy to suggest that women cut their hair short.    It sounds worse than I thought it was.
 
 
Quote Act II, Ford commercial with lady shaving her head.  The tagline Ford uses(or their marketing agent).  BOLD.  Can all these marketing giants be wrong?
 
Is it "conceivable" the makers of the commercials all have hair fetishes and are trying to convince women to cut off all their hair so that they could make money from all the products and services that bald and short haired women bring?  
 
Literally getting rid of all the hair is different from simply having a preference for short hair.  Short or long hairstyles only have to do with length.  Being bald by choice is rather radical.  It sounds like someone is making a political or other extreme statement or has a fear of having any hair at all. 
 
 
Quote Personally, I consider hair past the shoulders as long, hair close to shoulder length as medium and hair off the shoulder as short.
 
Me, too.  On that, we agree!
 
 
Quote My assumption of your definition of Long=Mid Back and Below
 
Could you point out where I say that?  Perhaps part of the problem is that you're reading what isn't there.
 
 
Quote Using my definition, and your suggestion, I conducted a study(not scientific albeit) over the last week.  I visited two grocery stores, two malls, one strip club, three Hooters restaurants and one baseball game with my son.
 
A strip club and a Hooter's restaurant -- two places that cater to what men like sexually.  No wonder you found lots of long-haired women!  It's what guys prefer.
 
I've never been to a strip club or Hooters, and that will be true for many people.  That's kind of like going to a high school, where I will concur that probably most females (not staff) have long hair.   When I say society, I mean places that aren't exclusive for special audiences.  Places like I mentioned that nearly everyone visits or places that have a good cross-mix of society:  grocery stores, doctor's or dentist's offices, banks, staff of female teachers, and places that don't revolve around men's sexual fantasies, overt or not.  You really are going out of your way to try to prove something you cannot.
 
However, why aren't there more short haired girls in strip clubs and Hooters?   Because business owners want to provide what the customer wants, and if guys prefer long hair, then these places will cater to what most guys like:  long hair on women.  If more guys did prefer short hair on women, then it would make business sense that strip clubs and Hooter's restuarants would cater to whatever the prevailing preference is.   Currently, it is a preference of long hair on women.
 
However, your informal poll that found lots of long hair in sexally-oriented businesses concurs perfectly with the study that Dave mentioned. 
 
 
Quote To me, a woman of beauty is petite, blonde (usually short) with color highlights, tasteful tattoos, body piercings (not facial) and one killer-kick butt/take no prisoner attitude.
 
It sounds like your personal preference is a tough little dominatrix biker babe.  Variety is what makes the world go round. 


Edited by anne6000 - July 06 2006 at 6:48pm
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