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Ion Brilliance vs. Wella Color??

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jentalkin2u View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 25 2006 at 6:07pm
Which brand do you prefer if you've had experience with both (or heard from others)?  Sally's also sells Clairol and L'Oreal professional if you have anything to say about those brands, too! 
 
I'm going to be coloring my hair from a dark blonde to medium blonde and need a blue-based dye. 
 
Also... should I use 20-vol or 30-vol devloper?  I pulled orange roots the last time I used a boxed dye.
 
TIA!!!
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KarenNJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KarenNJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2006 at 7:45pm
Both are very good.  I'm using Wella Color Charm now.  I used Ion Color Brilliance a few times and it gave me very pretty color, but  I went back to Wella because it did a better job on my grey.
If you're only lifting 1-2 levels, you should be ok with 20 volume, but as long as your hair is in good condition, you could use 30 volume if you're concerned about the 20 vol not being strong enough.
Good luck!


Edited by KarenNJ - September 25 2006 at 7:59pm
Strand test, strand test, strand test!
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jentalkin2u View Drop Down
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Thanks!  I might use the 30 vol just because the 20 vol didn't seem to lift enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cambria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2006 at 8:15pm
I haven't used Wella but I just used Ion last night and it made my hair feel gorgeous!  I used a ton of Feria conditioner afterwards, but I always do and my hair's never felt this great.  Plus it's so shiny and vibrant!  I've heard from tons of people that the Ion colors are very accurate.  And the girl working at Sally's told me that she used to use Wella but got tired of the "color guessing game" so she decided to try Ion and loved it... she said there's no guessing with that stuff.  :)
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jan norris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2006 at 8:24pm

I don't know who told you that you could lighten your dark blonde by applying a lighter shade.  It simply won't work.  Color doesn't remove color.  The best you can do on your own, is apply the lighter color to the new growth area only and let the transistion be gradual. 

Jan Norris
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KarenNJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KarenNJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2006 at 8:48pm
Jan,
She's doing her roots to match the rest of her hair.  (She posted about it the other day.)
The "dark blonde" is virgin hair.

Strand test, strand test, strand test!
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jentalkin2u View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jentalkin2u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2006 at 9:42pm

Cambria - thanks for the input!  I think I will try Ion.  That's what my instincts were telling me.  I appreciate the help, cuz I wasn't sure which one to chose! :)

Jan - I've lightened my dark blonde hair before successfully.  I guess like Karen told you, it's virgin hair.  I want to lighten it about a shade lighter.  The length of my hair has already been lightened, but I'm trying to make it a shade darker so it'll all match (hopefully!).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2006 at 10:08pm
Thanks for the clarification!  Would you say your hair is healthy?  Have you done any strand testing?  Remember that your hair may have different porosity at the ends than it does at mid-shaft.  Let me know!
Jan Norris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sharyg11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2006 at 11:20pm
You should try Redken hair color. It is the most amazing color in the world, and it will make your hair silky and beautiful and it has alot of staying power. You can find it on e-bay at great prices. There are even some sellers who are salon owners and offer to help you pick the shade you need to get the results you want. The only problem with that color is that once you try it, You'll never want to use any other color EVER again.
 
Anyway good luck with whatever you choose,
Much love, Shary
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jentalkin2u View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jentalkin2u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2006 at 6:13am
Originally posted by jan norris jan norris wrote:

Thanks for the clarification!  Would you say your hair is healthy?  Have you done any strand testing?  Remember that your hair may have different porosity at the ends than it does at mid-shaft.  Let me know!
 
I've done strand testing in the past and I definitely will do it this time, considering the lighter ends will probably be more porous.  I would say my hair is healthy... it feels healthy and I got a good 2-inch trim about 4 weeks ago.  I figure if I put the color at the roots and pull thru for the last 10 minutes that should be about right since the lighter part will probably take the color quicker.  I guess that's what the strand test is for! 
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Originally posted by Sharyg11 Sharyg11 wrote:

You should try Redken hair color. It is the most amazing color in the world, and it will make your hair silky and beautiful and it has alot of staying power. You can find it on e-bay at great prices. There are even some sellers who are salon owners and offer to help you pick the shade you need to get the results you want. The only problem with that color is that once you try it, You'll never want to use any other color EVER again.
 
Anyway good luck with whatever you choose,
Much love, Shary
 
I have heard lots of great things about Redken EQ and Aveda.  They are harder to come by.  Thanks, I'll have to consider that, too!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2006 at 8:46am
Hi Ladies,
 
As a former salon owner and a professional colorist, I have to tell you that anyone who is selling professional use products to an unlicensed individual is breaking the law.  Redken is a great color line and has been specifically formulated for use by a educated and experienced colorist.  I am not blaming you for wanting to use it...it just iritates me that a professional would do this.  It is called Diversion and there is a huge push in the industry to stop it.  Both Wella and L'Oreal (some others) have various lines.  One for the consumer and others for the professional.  Obviously, the quality ie...pigment concentration and ammonia rates are better in the professional line. 
 
One piece of advice...if you are going to pull color through the ends...try to use a semi-permanent/deposit only color in a similar shade.  It is gentler on the hair and gives a better result.  Good luck!
 
 
 
Jan Norris
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sharyg11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2006 at 11:40am

Hi Jan,

I can understand your irritation. But let me tell you, here in Miami and in New York, you can pretty much get any professional use products you want. I can see where you are coming from, and yes most of us know that it is against the law for someone to sell professional products to someone with no license. But that is not going to stop people from selling it. They will always find a way around it. I personally buy them, and have my friend who is a professional with more than 20 years of experience, and has a very prestigious salon in the caribean, apply the products on me. It is just way cheaper for me to buy them here(I can get Redken color on e-bay for as low as 5.99 as opose to 15.00) and take them with me when I'm there and have her do it (since she won't charge me a cent) than to go to a professional here and getting it done. So we do understand your concern, I mean I've hear of people buying Bio-Ionics and performing thermal reconditioning on themselves, which is just crazy!!!. I mean I had it done by a professional and my hair was destroyed. I could never imagine doing it myselft. However hair color has a smaller margin for error, unless you are trying to do crazy stuff with it. I no longer use color on my hair, but when I did, even the few times I did it myself it came out great and I had no problems.

But thanks so much for your advice and concern. It is greatly appreciated.
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Originally posted by jan norris jan norris wrote:

As a former salon owner and a professional colorist, I have to tell you that anyone who is selling professional use products to an unlicensed individual is breaking the law.  Redken is a great color line and has been specifically formulated for use by a educated and experienced colorist.  I am not blaming you for wanting to use it...it just iritates me that a professional would do this.  It is called Diversion and there is a huge push in the industry to stop it.  Both Wella and L'Oreal (some others) have various lines.  One for the consumer and others for the professional.  Obviously, the quality ie...pigment concentration and ammonia rates are better in the professional line. 


I'd like to add to Jan's sentiment with a view from the professional products manufacturers' side.
For several years, I worked in new product development for a professional hair care manufacturer.  Our largest customer was a distributor who we actually dropped for a year or 2 (about 15 years ago) because they were diverting products to drug stores.  They were more often diverting shampoos, etc., than color, but this diversion impacted the prestige of the product line.  If a product is available in a drug store, people will not buy it from their salon.  It loses prestige in both the salon and consumer sectors.
The manufacturers are primarily concerned about the prestige their products maintain.  If a manufacturer sells a product to - for example - Sally's, they know Sally's does sell to non-professionals.  The product labeling indicates professional use only, so there will be no warranty for the non-professional, but the manufacturer is aware of the store's resale habits.  That is why you don't see products like TopChic and Matrix SoColor at Sally's - the manufacturers are maintaining that higher level of prestige for those lines by selling only to distributors who will not sell to non-professionals.
Wella, Ion and others know non-professionals may use the products they sell to Sally's and they are ok with turning a blind eye for those product lines.  There is still a certain level of respect for the product (though not as high as some) because it's not sitting on a shelf at your local CVS.  If Sally's were to resell those products to various drug stores; however, that's when things would get really ugly.  The industry is more upset about that type of behavior... and people "scalping" (no pun intended) a huge volume of elite color on eBay, etc.
So to clarify the point of "illegal diversion," the product lines manufacturers absolutely do not want in the hands of non-professionals would not be on the shelves of distributors who sell to non-professionals.  The manufacturers are more discrimating about the sale of their higher-end lines.
So don't feel "guilty" about buying product from a distributor who openly sells to non-professionals, but do question the ethics of anyone who is violating the manufacturer's intentions!



Edited by KarenNJ - September 26 2006 at 5:04pm
Strand test, strand test, strand test!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sharyg11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2006 at 10:30pm
Karen let me ask you something, lately I have been seeing more and more high end hair products at drug stores, Walmart, Target etc. CVS is even carrying Aveda producst. Walmart now carries Nexxuss. If the industry is trying to retain the prestige of their products, how come they are now available at low price retail stores. I mean, Walmart is huge. I'm sure for them to be carrying Nexxus, they have to be getting it from the manufacturer. I really doubt that they would break the law, or that anybody can supply their 1000+ stores with diverted products. I'm just curious. What do you know about that. Are those stores actually working with the manufacturers or getting their products somewhere else?
 
Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. As I said, it is just pure curiosity, as I have been wondering about this for a while.
 
Much love, Shary
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Ladies,
 
This has been an interesting format and one that I am glad to see being addressed.  Most consumers have no idea of the magnitude of the problem.  I can tell you from personal experience that there are people who solicit salon owners to help them divert.  It is lucrative and I was approached by a few years ago.  I know that some manufacturers are more tenacious than others.  All industry publications are taking an aggressive stance on trying to stop or at least significantly slow the diversion problem.  I know that Wal-Mart goes for the cheapest possible price from their suppliers so I can only assume they are dealing with the manufacturer...but don't kid yourself...Wal-Mart isn't above dealing illegally. 
 
 
The bottom line is that as consumers we all want a bigger, better deal...but often we really do get what we pay for!
 
Peace!
Jan Norris
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One quick check is to look for a batch code (usually embedded in the seal of a tube or printed on the bottom of a bottle).  If it has been scraped off, that is the "diverter's" attempt to hide their involvement in the illegal activity.

The company I used to work for developed another method (a spray that left a microscopic color-pattern code) to identify who was diverting the product.  They figured out who was doing it and told them to stop... when they didn't, the company even stopped selling to them for a short time.  But they went back to doing some business with them because by cutting them off completely, they lost too much money in sales.  It puts them in a tough position.  They don't like that it happens, but the still feel they have to sell some of the "lower prestige" lines to that distributor in order to maintain market share.  They still make money but are faced with finding a balance between per-piece-profit and the potential for overall loss of sales to salons due to lower prestige.

My former company has "higher prestige" lines which they will absolutely never sell to that distributor.

They also considered creating a line for consumers to purchase at drug stores, but decided against it.  They set their strategic direction to focus on the professional industry and maintain prestige with salons.

It's difficult for manufacturers to crack down on this problem.  They still make the same profit (on a per piece basis), but now a salon has been cut out of the chain of profit.  If a salon has introduced me to a product that I like, I will continue to pay more to purchase it from that salon.  Even it if is more expensive, I think they should benefit from introducing the fabulous product to me.  An under-handed distributor should not.  ;)

At Walmart's volumes (and considering that they typically do not pay their suppliers until the product is sold from their shelves), you would think those manufacturers must have agreements with Walmart - but I honestly don't know.

I left my former company in 1998 ~ before Walmart was so popular ~ but I didn't see their products in Walmart the last time I was there; however, for the past 10+ years I have seen their products in CVS (with codes scraped off).

Out of principle, I follow the "scrape test" and make sure never to buy a product with the batch code scraped off.  It's not perfect in detecting all diverted product (some diverters don't bother to scrape), but it is a tell-tale sign of illegal diversion.

Legally it is difficult for manufacturers to stop the diversions, but they are trying.  It's a very messy situation for them.

Strand test, strand test, strand test!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jan norris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2006 at 9:31pm
Karen,
 
You have a great deal of important information and I appreciate it.   You rock!
 
Jan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sharyg11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2006 at 11:32am
Thanks for the info Karen, it is very interesting. I checked the prices at Walmart, Target, CVS etc. and to tell you the truth they are pretty much the same as in a salon. So I guess there is really no advantage to buying them there. I personally never have. I usually get my stuff either at Ulta (cause they always have great deals) or Trade Secret. And of course at e- bay if I find a deal that is just too good to pass up. Oh, and one time I bought Biosilk(when I used to  use it, I no longer do) at a Navarro drug store, because they were having a sale that week and it was like 10.00 off.
 
But regularly since the prices are practically the same at those places, I never really saw the advantage to getting them there. Neither did I feel completely safe, since the bottles do say the product in not guaranteed if purchased from one of those places. So I stuck to buying at Ulta and Trade Secret, since most of the time they have some sort of deal going on, so it is actually cheaper for me to get it there.
 
Thanks again for all the valuable information. It really helps, and I appreciate it.
 
Much love, Shary
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2006 at 3:34pm
i know for a fact that nexxuss is no longer available in any of the salons in my area. it would seem that nexxuss has gone to the drug stores to maximise profit share. just my guess tho. 
learn to love what you were born with
you can do anything if you set your mindto it (just dont try this with hair,that could turn out bad)
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