Hair does (i repeat) NOT have a gender.

Every time I hear or see someone mention feminine, I find that very sexually discriminatory. It just enhances the stereotype that every man has to have a weekly appointment with people like Brent, and barbers affiliated to crewbuzz.com


My hair is not second class to anyone else's, regardless of length, color, texture, style, or the gender of the person where the hair is sprouting from. The only way it could be viewed as second class is its current condition. I am as much a living being as anyone else on this board, I know I am treated as such, but if the posts don't reflect it, well, that's like saying you're not racist but calling all men the n-word.


So besides this post being a rant, it has 2 open questions :

What's so feminine about hair ? And if you have to fall back on terms both sexes appreciate, like beauty and youth, then why are you using feminine ?

The sooner the people that actually have long hair break their own (6th***) stigma, the sooner the rest of the world can at least understand and not make stupid remarks like "uhh, you'd look good with short hair." or "it doesn't suit you. it makes you look not-enough/too *feminine*."

(Yes, too feminine even for ladies, feminine as our B.S. society feeds us also encompasses youth (despite men enjoying youth as well) and if you look 20 with long hair but are 32, and people tell you to look your age, wouldn't you feel offended ?)



It's food for thought. Very bitter, but eat it up. It will be good for you.
--- Kixx.

In today's society it's just a fact that most of the women with long hair are women, and therefore long hair is seen by some as a feminine feature. Which is so stupid considering in the past both men and women wore their hair long mostly.

Speaking as a long-haired woman: when women are asked why they like having long hair, and reply it makes them feel feminine, it does not mean they think a guy with long hair looks feminine. Feminine in this case means something along the lines of beautiful, attractive (to the opposite - or the same, whatever - sex) and pretty. It's feeling good about yourself really, all summed up into one little word.

But not all women with long hair look feminine. Just like women with short hair do not have to look masculine.
I can't speak for the people who relate to men with long hair as 'too feminine looking', because I am not one of them. If a guy looks feminine, that's usually because of his face or body, not because of his hair. Hair can increase it, but no man I've ever seen has looked feminine simply because of his hair.

There are two posts that made me start this thread.
One was by Lyris, mentionning the Neutrogena and Aussie products (i think it was a leave-in conditioner) that smelt very feminine. As we can see that too many people use feminine like a buzzword similar to cool, phat or groovy, I asked if she could clarify for the sexually impaired since that's unfortunately the slant of such a buzzword. Fruity, Herby, Koala-y (i know, Aussie doesn't test on animals, nothing said animal by-products o_O ), anything that could try and communicate the actual smell. It's feminine is no better than saying "something" or "i don't know".

The second was by Elissa. She said it makes her feel "feminine" . When taken care of, it is nice, pretty and good-looking, it makes her feel good. (paraphrase) Feeling good and visual beauty is something you can't say staright to my face that men can't appreciate, hell, don't want even for themselves. Not looking like trash != feminine.


I have nothing against either poster. It's just when something that has no substantial meaning which is also used as a setback to 50 % of the world becomes this banalized, the time is right to change it. And that time, starts now. I might not change the world as a whole, but the few people I am surrounded by will take a few minutes to really think about what they're saying. This isn't a matter of politically or sexually being correct, it's about being humanly correct. If it looks nice, say nice. If it smells like koalas, say it smells like Koalas. Thanks for reading.

This wasn't an attack on you (nor Elissa). And yes, I know you clarified. But shouldn't it be clear to begin with ?


Still, the paint is on the wall. I'll feel much better when people get up, wake up and tell it like it is. I am no fan of double-speak. It's just a real lack of sincerity in some cases (although I agree for your post it wasn't meant with ill intentions or especially blank intentions, which are often the case with the fem/masc labels)

It's the second one that made me tip over, although i see the abuse of such labels daily, so it is not the sum of just 2 posts.

Okay Kintaro, we've made peace :-)

I think this is a very valid point. I never, never refer to long hair as feminine, unless qualified on a particular woman, but not in general. I see long hair as sexually enhancing, be it on a man or on a woman. On a man, it enhances his masculinity, and on a woman, it enhances her femininity. The reason is simple, but hairiness in general is indicative of sexual maturity, while lack of bodily/overall hair indicates sexual immaturity, as demonstrated by children. In fact, when considering total body hair, men are hairier than women, so if anything, bearing a lot of hair is a masculine, not feminine trait. Hair enhances the angularity/shape of the person, rather than smoothing it out.

Additionally, if we're talking about human practice through history, very few time periods transpired where men had short hair as the rule. Such time periods were abnormal, not common. The present, modern time is one of those times. Otherwise, long hair on both sexes has always been the norm.

Personally, I am turned off by these ads for exercise equipment, where the "buff" man suddenly appears shaven. I even see body depilatory kits for men to remove their body hair. What the heck is going on? Why is the world so fearful of hair? I'll tell you why: it's sensual! Not just sensuous, but sensual. It hearkens back to eons ago when our species focused mainly on basic survival. Lifespans were short. Life was hard. Don't waste your time on the immature. Go for the real thing. Mate, provide offspring, ensure the species survives. Who the heck wants children or a childlike appearance for this?

So in today's world, we emphasize hairless bodies, and now short hair. I really have to wonder why there is such a determined focus on youthfulness, in hairlessness, in denying maturity and adulthood. It's a bit creepy.

Jennifer Eve

*Hair length in regards to masculinity and feminity is completely cultural. Long hair is no more "feminine" than short hair. The same with short hair. In Africa for centuries both men and women have had very short hair or shaved heads. Likewise at times on other continents long or short hair on men or women varied from culture to culture.

Likewise our sexuality has varied. True most people are hetrosexual but there have also always been gays, lesbians, and certainly bisexuals. Bisexual women often raised children with other women in some cultures. So much of hair fashion, clothing and even sexuality is cultural.

Hair, like other aspects of culture varies from culture to culture.

"When taken care of, it is nice, pretty and good-looking, it makes her feel good. "

It also makes me feel very, VERY female. That's why I said "feminine" and not "good". I meant "feminine". And since we are talking about feelings, mine, there really is no argument here.

From a personal standpoint, I happen to think that long hair on men looks very masculine, very male. I've had a boyfriend or two with long hair and I liked their look very much. I certainly don't see long hair as being feminine in and of itself. I don't believe I implied it, either.

Looking at genetics in isolation (from nurture/culture/socialization):-

Female = xx chromosome

Male = xy chromosome

The “labels” and gender differences are established by Nature.

Our genes determine the gender of an embryo and also the resulting gender-biased hormones that will be “firing on all cylinders” through the organism as it develops.
Hormones drive (amongst other things) …behaviours, instincts, response to stimuli…..

The social/cultural erosion of gender differentiation can only be superficial, except in a genetic-modification scenario (oh! Are we there already?)

Lets see…the birth rate among Western Europeans is falling dramatically. Many social and industrial factors are leading to reduced sperm counts and hormone related ovarian, breast and testicular cancers are rife.
Our organs of gender differentiation are going through a challenging time!

Socially, there is a move towards androgyny, in my opinion.
Androgyny is tied into individual expression as a package sometimes and sold to the intellectual strata of society. I have seen it in Europe – I am ignorant of what goes on elsewhere in the developed world.
I conclude that we are raised to de-value, questions and sometimes fear the fullness of our primal and intrinsic male and female – ness.

Personally, I accept/respect a man with breasts on a social and emotional level. Biologically, I would not want to reproduce with him. I am repelled by female-type traits on a man. I desire and enjoy our respective differences.

In the light of the above, is the fundamental argument of this thread that Nature is not politically correct?
Nature is definitely working to a male and female prototype. Our survival as a species depends on whether we arrogantly defy Nature or allow her to flower fully.

Part of living life is embracing your identity. I can't speak for all, but a part of mine lives in a place that can only be defined by me to be a feminine realm. I would not deny it. I celebrate my femininity, because to deny it is to ignore part of my soul.

I don't expect you to understand this. I also take extreme offense if you think it is something to hide behind. Au contraire friend, as professional who has to work with many chauvenists, it would be easier to dress and act less "feminine" but I am braver than that.

jacqui