Cultish Militants on the Long Hair Board!!!

Uzi,

You were not "defeated!" I very much enjoyed reading your response to Rod.

How about "Place?" Or "Runner-Up?" Or "First Alternate?" or "Second Place?"

I have no idea what the longest post here has been. Most of mine are fairly brief. I'm guessing Rod feels most honored to have received such lengthy responses to his most recent post here.

DaveDecker wrote: I'm guessing Rod feels most honored to have received such lengthy responses to his most recent post here.

Any time I can stimulate thought and incite conversation, I'm honored. I enjoy being appreciated. It's always good when what I write isn't misinterpreted, but I can't have everything.

Gosh, we might be close to wrapping up here... might be.

Rod wrote: Dave, neither of our samples are representative. They are just personal experience. There are all kinds of women out there and I accept what your experience is. You choose to devalue mine, despite never meeting me or anyone I've met...

Actually Rod, I thought you had mentioned a group of women who were friends with each other, which didn't possess a great diversity of opinions. If your personal experience is varied, I accept that.

Rod wrote: I reiterate that there are many reasons people grow their hair long and those reasons aren't necessarily shared by the people on this board. People here choose to argue that.

I don't doubt that there are a great variety of reasons people have for growing their hair long. I also don't claim that every such reason has been stated here.

Rod wrote: There is an impression given out that short hair women are more confident. I've heard this from short-haired women and from stylists. I never said that.

I know you didn't say it. HeadBoy did. And stylists, quoted in so many women's magazines, have claimed it in decades past, as if it were some infallible truth.

Rod wrote: I did say that some women don't cut their hair because they don't have the guts to cut it. Can you tell me you've never met someone with that reason?

Rod, I have NEVER, ever known anybody who did not cut their hair because they didn't have the guts to do it. Not one single person.

Rod wrote: <> I don't think you really mean that.

I really do mean that.

Rod wrote: If you saw a short style tomorrow, would it be so easy for you to make an appointment? Of course not.

I guarantee you I will see many short styles tomorrow, and I can assure you that not one of them will tempt me to cut my hair.

I presume you hypothesize if I were dissatisfied with my hair and were contemplating whether or not a particular shortcut had sufficient "merit" to warrant serious consideration. Well, that scenario is an internal debate (within those who may have it) about the "pros" and "cons" of the feasible choices.

Rod wrote: If it was so easy for people with long hair to go short they would have already done so. Some people find it easy, but others don't.

What this means is that they acknowledge that if they are dissatisfied with the shortcut, that they understand it will be a long wait until their hair grows back to its current length. Being so hesitant is understandable.

Rod wrote: I have a friend with the most gorgeous long hair I've ever seen. She longs for a pixie, but how can she cut a head of hair like that? I'm sure there's some jealousy there.

Send her here, let us talk with her and see if we can help her to rediscover her passion for long hair. Failing that, she's all yours.

Rod wrote: On some women, their hair won't do certain styles, due to face shape, thinness, thickness, waviness, curliness, or maybe because it just doesn't look good on them. One friend of mine loves pixies, but she won't go that short because she thinks her ears look funny.

The hair can be made to conform to a certain state of being (color, waviness, length/cut), but how it looks on the person and whether she or anyone else likes the way it looks are different issues. It's okay to like the way a certain style looks on someone else without wanting it for one's self, too.

Rod wrote: I've given you the definitions I used when I posted cultish militancy... If I use a word in a proper way, please don't assign other definitions to me.

I assigned no definitions to you. But by the definition you gave for "cultish," the way you applied it to this board means that you cannot fail to apply the very same definition to any of the other boards here.

Rod wrote: <> Unfortunately not. There's no unity or togetherness there. It's much more individual. You can say I have a cult of one in my house though.

You're in denial, Rod. There is most definitely a unity and togetherness there of short hair appreciation by the regulars. It isn't a matter of degrees. You're all there for a singular purpose.... to talk about short hair.

Jen : Think about it, in the 19th century, the word was "round up the n*****s, let's cut them in half"

We're just the n*****s of today. They can't discriminate against black people legally, so they go for things that aren't legally proscribed. I mean, bashing pro-choicers isn't a hate crime, and bashing atheists in some places *cough*bible*belt*cough* doesn't count as religious discrimination because they don't have a religion o_O.

But long haired people are visible markers in society. You can't figure out if someone is a Democrat, an atheist, or a pro-choicer by looking at them. But we're visible, in the case of men, clearly a minority, in women, not sure.

The hatred from back then hasn't been suppressed with new laws, people are the same inbred idiots with the same rage as back then just in different circumstances. I'll say it in plain english without a censor. We are the niggers of today. I'd like to see one group of people as easily visibly marked in society.

People may comment on your hair. They may ask you why you don't cut it. Doesn't mean they hate your hair or hate you for having long hair. They may pressure you to cut your hair, but charities pressuring is hardly limited to Locks of Love. I get dozens of guilt-ridden appeals each week by mail and phone for my time and money.

They may be jealous of your hair, but it's self-centered to think that everyone who doesn't have long hair is jealous. I've done things most people haven't, and some would like to do, but that doesn't mean anyone's jealous.

Long-haired people aren't a descriminated minority. Talk to me the next time people burn down your places of worship or start killing you because you have long hair. That happens every day to Jews, Blacks, gays, and others.

People make judgements based on your hair. It happens to people who don't have long hair. Women with short hair often get insulting "dyke" comments and I have a bald friend who has been told he's a skinhead because he's bald.

Kintaro wrote: It's still the largest visible marker that isn't proscribed by law to discriminate against.

But it's against the law to discriminate against people with short hair or people who wear a lot of make-up or pierce their ears five times, or people with mohawks or green hair?

How many organizations have a no long haired people allowed policy?

I apologize for being a person without long hair posting here. I wouldn't have posted on this board if this thread hadn't been about me.

If you want to discuss how people have discriminated against you, real or perceived, because of long hair, this is your forum. No one should intrude into the one place you can do that. Being a member of a group that has been discriminated against for centuries, I get annoyed when people make light of that.

She never said that, and it was my opinion alone. But it exists.

If I think Locks of Love is full of fetishists, abusive people, and profiteers, I'm allowed to say so.

I have yet to see someone discriminated at the workplace for having short hair.

... stepping into the fray... to try to quell the angst...

RedJen makes a very good point. Locks of Love cannot prove that they actually need more hair. Although they provide no official figures on hair donations collected (and only imprecise counts of wigs made), they do, from time to time, issue press releases, or are otherwise quoted in various media providing approximate tallies of incoming donations. All of those figures indicate increasing rates of hair donations. Locks of Love admits that they sell some hair, and they say that anything that is determined to be "unusable" is subject to sale, but they have never provided an accounting of the determination of how many hair donations they receive are "usable", nor have they provided an accounting of what has become of all of the "usable" donations. Their reporting on this issue is non-existent, and therefore IMO they have failed to demonstrate that they need any further donations.

So I hear you, RedJen. They haven't even tried to make a case of their need, and therefore (and from all the other information available) it seems that they are very much NOT in need of any more hair.

And RedJen, your analogy of the typical solicitation scenario is right on. Rod, if this reinforces your perception of me as "militant," I won't try to dissuade you.

Kintaro, I agree with you that having long hair is a very visible "marker" (of who wants & has long hair), and that it is the most discernable "marker that isn't proscribed by law to discriminate against," but I disagree with the idea that the extent of discrimination against the long-haired is anything close to the extent of discrimination against blacks.

Tina, your figures on the unemployment rate of inner-city blacks is quite inaccurate, but generally it is much higher than the unemployment rate of long-haired non-whites.

Rod, there are people who dislike long hair (but not the people to whom it is attached). However, there are people who hate long hair (no idea if they also hate the possessors). You and RedJen are both correct on that point.

I don't think anyone here except Kintaro thinks that everyone who doesn't have long hair is jealous of it. I certainly do not belive it.

Long-haired people are sometimes discriminated against, such as in employment opportunities. I've experienced it first hand. It doesn't mean that nobody was willing to hire me. It does mean that some people have either refused to grant further interviews (based on a multitude of non-verbal clues sent during the "sizing up" that goes on at job fairs), or else hinted that the chances of getting hired will be improved if "you get a haircut."

True, the extent of the discrimination against long-haired people -- overall -- is far less than blacks, et al, have been subjected to. But it is not accurate to say that long-haired people are not subjected to discrimination. We are not talking about degrees of discrimination here, we are talking about whether or not there is discrimination.

And Rod, your friend who has been called a "skinhead" because he is bald is about the same as me being called a "hippie." (Other long-haired people have heard the same "hippie" comment). I don't consider this discrimination so much as it is prejudice, but in either case (your friend's or mine) it, in and of itself, is not necessarily serious. Last time someone called me a hippie, I responded, "What's a hippie?" with a puzzled look on my face. They got the message.

One last note to Rod... bummer to hear your "group" has been discriminated against for centuries. Have things been getting better in that regard in recent decades and years?

Dave, you are a rational militant. Now there's an oxymoron.

Locks of Love is a charity. They solicit money and solicit hair. Some people on this board have a problem with them selling hair they don't use for wigs. What else should they do with it? Like all charities, they don't raise nearly enough money to complete their mission through solicitations. They have to look to other sources. They have a product and they sell it. That's great. A lot of charities sell donated products. That's what they do with the old car they ask you to donate.

People donate their hair willingly. Yeah, some are coerced, but I doubt the short hair police take people kicking and screaming. [I think they slip a ruffee.] Most people don't want their hair after it's cut off and probably don't have a problem if their ponytail is sold. Better than Locks of Love asking them for a $25 donation.

People shouldn't pressure you to cut off your hair to donate it to Locks of Love, but don't blame the charity for that.

There are plenty of people who have a problem with long hair on men. By growing your hair long, you've put yourself in that spot. Not saying you should have to get remarks, of course. Many men who grow their hair long don't take care of it. It often looks ratty. These men probably don't care. It gives men that do a bad name.

On the flip side, wearing your hair long makes you look like a rocker and women love rockers.

I don't think a lot of men are jealous of men with long hair. I'm sure quite a few women are jealous of women with long hair, but not a high percentage. Of course, long hair on women is considered the epitome of femininity. Men overwhelmingly prefer it. If a few don't women like it, know that no one is going to call you a dyke. I can empathize with long-haired men, not so much with long-haired women. Personally, I have no interest in growing my hair long and prefer it no longer than 2" at the longest part.

I'll bet you've been discriminated against a time or two at the office due to long hair. But discrimination isn't discrimination. There are degrees. By comparing discrimination against someone who has long hair to the Black experience makes light of the Black experience.

Dave, I'm Jewish and yes we're better off than we have been, but our synagouges are still defaced and torched, we're still denied admission to country clubs, and denied jobs at companies. And then there's the feelings Arabs have toward us. Jews have been getting killed for being Jewish for centuries. Long-haired people haven't.

ere we go again Rod,... men "overwelmingly" prefer women with long hair.

Tina, I think it may be true. Magazines that cater to men overwhelmingly feature long-haired models. Since the magazines are in the business to make money, they probably have done the research to find out generally what men prefer. It is rare that a short-haired woman is featured.

As a personal anecdote only, I found that, in my own life, men also overwhelmingly preferred my hair longer.

However, men who buck the trend and prefer shorter hair may also be more vocal about it because they are in a minority.