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Pressure to cut your hair after 30... or is it 40?

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    Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:45pm
Hi all:Love this thread. Well I am bucking three taboos. I am short, (four feet ten) I have a somewhat round face and I am going to be 50 years ols in July. And I AM GOING TO HAVE LONG HAIR. I have had short hair all my life. Short pixie like styles. I mean I am SUPPOSED TO right? Well tough. No more. I am going to have long hair for once in my life. I have auburn hair, no gray, very very healthy, just the right texture and volume. I think it's one of my best features. So I am going to have more of it now. And I am going to keep it pinned up, as I am doing now. I think that's a pretty good compromise. It will appear short but it will really be long.What's the first thing I hear when I tell folks I am going to grow my hair? "I thought older women were supposed to have short hair." It's the MANTRA. "Well I'm going to keep it pinned up," I say. So they say, "Then why grow it long?"Geezz. What do you say to that? It really bugs me.I think it's a good compromise. It will appear short but it will really be long. I will feel more feminine with long hair to brush out and play with. My goal is a French braid, one of the classiest hair styles of all. I will have one by Christmas. Then they will all feel like fuddy-duds who are afraid to do anything the least bit risky. In the long run, I think that's what's behind the pressure for over 40's to have short hair. It's the herd instinct. If enough women follow it, then having short hair will be a huge sign hanging over thier heads I AM AN OLDER WOMAN, YOU CAN TELL BECAUSE MY HAIR IS SHORT.I'll show them. Every inch my hair grows takes a year or two off my age. (grin)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Victor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:41pm
Where I grew up (in a village in Guatemala), it was considered shameful for a woman to have short hair. I'm referring specifically to the Mayan people, who constituted the great majority of people there. The Ladinos (people who had taken on the hispanic culture) did not feel the same way, and sometimes had shorter or more "modern" hair styles. They also abandoned the traditional dress and changed to typical western dress. They also abandoned the Mayan language in favor of Spanish and usually switched from the Mayan religion (they call it the religion of the cross) to Roman Catholicism.Anyway, almost all women wore their hair to terminal length, wearing it in a single braid tied with a ribbon. Dressing up consisted of using a bigger, brighter ribbon. There was one woman, however, who was sort of the town crazy person. She was homeless, I guess, always sleeping in the town square. She is the only woman I can remember with short hair, other than gringos and ladinos.Related Link:Click here for more on the House of David Baseball Team
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Gigi,in my postI told the story of why my hair is short (Not By Choice!!), I have always been a long hair person & I myself cannot understand why society & fashion (some) dictates after 30 something you should go for the classic Bob, ex: Oprah Winfreys Hairstylists are always repeating this ridiculous Mantra of Short is Chic on older women, well I Strongly DISSAGREE, as I am doing everything in my power to grow my hair below the bra line before I'm 40(2 years to go!!), I apologise if my message came across other wise, I am defiantly all for long hair at All Ages & I am looking foward to my long hair again as I feel at my Most Femine with long hair, believe me I don't like putting up with short hair.Take Care,Simone.(C). :)I realize this is sort of a Betty Friedan, Feminine> Mystique sort of comment but it's something I've been> musing on for a while so I'll toss it out there. Its> seems to me that people don't want older women to have> long hair because it is sexy. Sexy has always been a> little scary to folks. Women who are nearing 40 are> clearly also becoming more powerful. In terms of their> earning capacity and in terms of not particularily> caring what other people think, ie., doing exactly> what they want to do. As a woman nears 40 she start to> make your own rules. That's a little scary to people> too. Power and sex? Who now. Forcing women (with> societal pressure) to cut their hair at 40 is a way to> keep them in their place. It's a way of saying, okay,> you can make money and be powerful, but by golly> you're not going to have all of this unrestrained> sexuality on top of it. I could go on for days on> this, but I'd love to hear if anyone else feels the> same.
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Hi,Yes...I agree. You would think a company would love creative people. I guess things are changing from the way they used to be...but aren't quite there yet.What really amazes me is how some companies that seem to be in total chaos seem to do so well in the business world. That really shocks me. Oh well. I have learned not to be shocked by much of anything these days. :-)Karen> I would think that a company would be thrilled to have> somebody who doesn't fit into the given mold (a phrase> that can mean so many different things, but generally> referring to something STAGNANT!). . .it shows an> individuality that speaks well of other qualities.> Then again, people such as this are generally more> difficult to control, which can be an undesirable> trait in some areas of corporate America!!! :)
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Gigi,Hi...if I could have 25 cents for every typo I made on these boards I would be rich. :-) Thank you for participating. Don't worry about spelling. Passion is more important than accuracy. :-)Best wishes,Karen> Who now, should be Whoa now. Your own rules, should be> their own rules. Sorry for imposing my lack of> attention on you all.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Holly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:39pm
Gigi,I couldn't agree more!!!! I personally think that this way of thinking is on the decline, but there will, for the time being, be those small minded people who think like that out there. Thankfully, there are many who don't think it's a threat as well, and applaud long hair on women over 40.Holly
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Gigi,I couldn't agree more!!!! I personally think that this way of thinking is on the decline, but there will, for the time being, be those small minded people who think like that out there. Thankfully, there are many who don't think it's a threat as well, and applaud long hair on women over 40.
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Karen,Just wanted to say that it made me feel for you when you stated that you weren't sent to college because you weren't a man..I know of other people that had the same thing said to them! I give you so much credit for making it on your own! I can't really say more than what all these other people have advised, but know that my hubby Paul is probably going to have to face the same thing when he gets back to working in England..in France they don't have the same outlook-fashionwise, so for now he can let it grow and experiment.Just please don't cut your hair for any other reason than FOR YOURSELF! Take care.Holly
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> Hi,> Thank you so much for your great response. I have> decided that I will only "hide my hair" in> the most formal of places. I have a great French Twist> that I can do that allows me to just "cheat"> a little. No new horns...I promise. :-)Glad to hear it!!!> Thanks for the support. I do understand what your> boyfriend went through though. My business partner has> short hair, but a diamond earring and he got> discriminated in his previous job even though he is a> brilliant engineer. People would be very critical of> the fact that he had an earring. Too bizarre.I don't understand why people are so petty -- probably because they're creatively-challenged. :)> I found this great quote on another web site and I> printed it out and posted it on my PC to remind me of> many things, including being true to myself. :-) Long> hair and ALL.> Check it out...I think it is pretty great:> ENDURANCE ~ FIDELITY ~ INTELLIGENCE> "Getting ahead in a difficult profession requires> avid faith in yourself. That is why some people with> mediocre talent, but with great inner drive, go much> further than people with vastly superior talent."> ~ Sophia Loren ~I've always loved this lady -- and the quote further makes me admire her!!! Thank you for sharing it!> Thanks again. Your boyfriend is lucky to have you.Karen, you're very kind. . .actually, I think *I* am the lucky one! LOL!!!I would think that a company would be thrilled to have somebody who doesn't fit into the given mold (a phrase that can mean so many different things, but generally referring to something STAGNANT!). . .it shows an individuality that speaks well of other qualities. Then again, people such as this are generally more difficult to control, which can be an undesirable trait in some areas of corporate America!!! :)
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Hi Arthur,I actually do spend a lot of time in California on business. I will be there 3x in the next few months. So I will definitely wear my hair down then. :-)Best wishes,Karen> Hi Karen,> Victory is much sweeter when achieve without> compromise.> You should come out to California to do business.> There> are high power executives wearing earrings and> whatnots> out here in the left coast :-)> Best wishes,> Arthur
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Hi Dave,You are a doll. Thanks for the great response. I was talking to my ex-husband Gary tonite on the phone. We have been divorced since 1981 but we talk about 4x a year on the phone.Gary lives in St. Louis and he has not seen me for about 5 years. He was asking me tonite how long my hair was. I said...to the top of my tush. He asked me how long I was going to grow it...I said...to my knees. Then he said the greatest thing. He said...well why stop THERE?I loved it. What a great response. We were talking about my business and he was telling me that I should never hide my hair. This is the same man that used to make me go to the hair stylist and get my hair cut into a "Farrah" do back in the 70s. :-) But he is right.And you are right too. I am certainly learning a lot about myself at this point with my hair.Thanks for all your great comments. As always Dave, you are a man of many wisdoms. :-)Best wishes,Karen> Hi Karen,> Having long hair myself, and working in the corporate> world, I can appreciate> your concern....> It is sad that so many other women, upon receiving> advice to "present the 'right'> image' and to "change their hairstyle" to> look more professional, have interpreted> that as a recommendation to cut their hair shorter. So> at the very least, you are> fortunate in that you recognize that cutting your hair> is not necessary to the> presentation of a "professional" image.> In this respect, you have won 99% of the battle. At> least you know you CAN> simultaneously have long hair and be perceived as> presenting a professional image.> Deciding to "hide your hair a little" is not> really a sell-out. Cutting it would> be a sell-out, given that you love yours long.> We make many types and magnitudes of sacrifices for> our jobs and our careers.> "Hiding your hair a little bit" could be> seen as a tiny concession, because when> you are not at work, you can wear your hair 100% the> way you want it.> I'd like to add that IMHO, Having a> "professional-looking" hairstyle is much> more a> matter of how the hair is styled than it is of its> length. For instance (to give an> extreme example), short hair that has been spiked up> with gel would probably be seen> as unprofessional in most office settings.> To me, professionalism has much, much more to do with> one's words and actions, than> it does with a person's appearance. A woman whose> appearance is considered classically> feminine who treats others with respect IS> professional, whereas the man who wears a> suit and tie but who is even slightly disrespectful of> those whose appearance he dislikes> is being UNprofessional.> Hope you find my words to be of some comfort.> Take care,> Dave
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Hi,Thank you so much for your great response. I have decided that I will only "hide my hair" in the most formal of places. I have a great French Twist that I can do that allows me to just "cheat" a little. No new horns...I promise. :-)Thanks for the support. I do understand what your boyfriend went through though. My business partner has short hair, but a diamond earring and he got discriminated in his previous job even though he is a brilliant engineer. People would be very critical of the fact that he had an earring. Too bizarre.I found this great quote on another web site and I printed it out and posted it on my PC to remind me of many things, including being true to myself. :-) Long hair and ALL.Check it out...I think it is pretty great:ENDURANCE ~ FIDELITY ~ INTELLIGENCE"Getting ahead in a difficult profession requires avid faith in yourself. That is why some people with mediocre talent, but with great inner drive, go much further than people with vastly superior talent."~ Sophia Loren ~Thanks again. Your boyfriend is lucky to have you.Best wishes,Karen> Good grief, Karen, you are such an accomplished> woman!!! Don't let this corporate crap get you down> now -- and try not to sprout another "horn,"> as you put, over it. :) It's not that you don't have> the right image, it's that the person telling you that> has a narrow mind. This really infuriates me, because> if Hollywood isn't trying to dictate *personal* style,> then employers are. Forget it! You've worked so hard> to grow out your hair and keep it healthy -- why> diminish this particular accomplishment? It's an> extension of yourself, and it's up to *you* as to how> you wear it. Buck the trend, indeed!> Just so you know, my boyfriend and some other male> friends -- all of whom are professionals -- go through> this same BS. My guy has long hair, and until he> started working in an "alternative" type of> architecture firm, he wasn't taken very seriously.> Suddenly they realized, "Wow -- he may not fit> into the cookie cutter image of his profession, but he> has a brilliant brain!" My other male friends> with long hair have actually been approached by a> woman who had locked herself out of her car, and said,> "I'm sure you all know how to break into a car,> so could you please help me?" All of these> stereotypes over HAIR! To which I reply, "Well,> people like Jesus had long hair. . .would you have> discriminated against him? Probably!"> Hang in there!!! If you don't cut your hair (and you> said you wouldn't, and we're all praying you won't,> because you're such an inspiration!), are you going to> wear it up?> One more thing to keep in mind: if an employer was to> make a remark about image/hair to members of several> American Indian tribes, he could be hauled into court> for a discrimination lawsuit (with a few others thrown> in!), since their religious beliefs forbid them from> cutting their hair. Just something to think about.
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Gigi,I've chewed on a related issue..... I think that the power of a person's psycheis compromised when they are pressured into comforming to a shorn-haired form.This societal pressure is used as a way to keep people, men and women, "in line"(conformist sheep in "the flock"). Some might scoff at these words but I wouldask them to consider really thinking about the issue.People have a tendency to buy stuff that they are told will resolve theiranxieties towards basic human issues of the heart and soul. Hairstylistscan't sell you your own long hair, but they can -- and have, and do -- selldesires to cut what you have.Beware.Dave
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Hi Karen,Having long hair myself, and working in the corporate world, I can appreciateyour concern....It is sad that so many other women, upon receiving advice to "present the 'right'image' and to "change their hairstyle" to look more professional, have interpretedthat as a recommendation to cut their hair shorter. So at the very least, you arefortunate in that you recognize that cutting your hair is not necessary to thepresentation of a "professional" image.In this respect, you have won 99% of the battle. At least you know you CANsimultaneously have long hair and be perceived as presenting a professional image.Deciding to "hide your hair a little" is not really a sell-out. Cutting it wouldbe a sell-out, given that you love yours long.We make many types and magnitudes of sacrifices for our jobs and our careers."Hiding your hair a little bit" could be seen as a tiny concession, because whenyou are not at work, you can wear your hair 100% the way you want it.I'd like to add that IMHO, Having a "professional-looking" hairstyle is much more amatter of how the hair is styled than it is of its length. For instance (to give anextreme example), short hair that has been spiked up with gel would probably be seenas unprofessional in most office settings.To me, professionalism has much, much more to do with one's words and actions, thanit does with a person's appearance. A woman whose appearance is considered classicallyfeminine who treats others with respect IS professional, whereas the man who wears asuit and tie but who is even slightly disrespectful of those whose appearance he dislikesis being UNprofessional.Hope you find my words to be of some comfort.Take care,Dave
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> Hi Ally,> I will try and be brave. It is just so hard when you> are trying to gain a reputation. I have so many bumps> on my head from hitting it against glass ceilings that> I sometime am mistaken for a unicorn with multiple> horns. :-)> I grew up in a family where my parents refused to let> me go to college "because it only made sense to> send the boys". Needless to say, I paid my way> through every single degree that I got...and I got> three of them.> Even then I was banging my head with sexist graduate> school professors who didn't understand why women> wanted to study engineering or software.> My entire career I have had to kick and scream and> fight and be 5x better and accept a lot less pay. You> know the old song and dance.> I guess I am a 1 part wimp because I am almost where I> want to be after 20 years of business hell and so I> don't want my hair to get in the way.> On one hand I don't want to sell out...on the other> hand....once I get to my personal finish line I think> I would even be willing to wear a mohawk to meet with> the lawyers.> I guess if I had already done what Bill Gates had...it> would be easier.> Very recently (too recent to not still sting) I had a> boss tell me that I would never go where I wanted in> corporate America "because I did not have the> RIGHT image". Again the hair thing.> Unfortunately I have not yet met a male CEO that had> an earring. My industry....software &> telecom....is still very conservative. Only the hard> core software gurus are showing up in flowered shirts> and Birkenstocks....at least here in Dallas.> I want to know where those trendsetter executives are> so I can call them up and do business with them. :-)> It would be refreshing and liberating to negotiate a> contract with a CEO with a Mohawk.> I will try to be brave, but I will need help and> encouragement to hang in there.> I am definitely not thinking of cutting my hair. Just> hiding it a little.> Thanks for your encouragement Ally. It meant a lot.> Best wishes,> KarenHi Karen,Victory is much sweeter when achieve without compromise.You should come out to California to do business. Thereare high power executives wearing earrings and whatnotsout here in the left coast :-)Best wishes,Arthur
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Who now, should be Whoa now. Your own rules, should be their own rules. Sorry for imposing my lack of attention on you all.
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I realize this is sort of a Betty Friedan, Feminine Mystique sort of comment but it's something I've been musing on for a while so I'll toss it out there. Its seems to me that people don't want older women to have long hair because it is sexy. Sexy has always been a little scary to folks. Women who are nearing 40 are clearly also becoming more powerful. In terms of their earning capacity and in terms of not particularily caring what other people think, ie., doing exactly what they want to do. As a woman nears 40 she start to make your own rules. That's a little scary to people too. Power and sex? Who now. Forcing women (with societal pressure) to cut their hair at 40 is a way to keep them in their place. It's a way of saying, okay, you can make money and be powerful, but by golly you're not going to have all of this unrestrained sexuality on top of it. I could go on for days on this, but I'd love to hear if anyone else feels the same.
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Good grief, Karen, you are such an accomplished woman!!! Don't let this corporate crap get you down now -- and try not to sprout another "horn," as you put, over it. :) It's not that you don't have the right image, it's that the person telling you that has a narrow mind. This really infuriates me, because if Hollywood isn't trying to dictate *personal* style, then employers are. Forget it! You've worked so hard to grow out your hair and keep it healthy -- why diminish this particular accomplishment? It's an extension of yourself, and it's up to *you* as to how you wear it. Buck the trend, indeed!Just so you know, my boyfriend and some other male friends -- all of whom are professionals -- go through this same BS. My guy has long hair, and until he started working in an "alternative" type of architecture firm, he wasn't taken very seriously. Suddenly they realized, "Wow -- he may not fit into the cookie cutter image of his profession, but he has a brilliant brain!" My other male friends with long hair have actually been approached by a woman who had locked herself out of her car, and said, "I'm sure you all know how to break into a car, so could you please help me?" All of these stereotypes over HAIR! To which I reply, "Well, people like Jesus had long hair. . .would you have discriminated against him? Probably!"Hang in there!!! If you don't cut your hair (and you said you wouldn't, and we're all praying you won't, because you're such an inspiration!), are you going to wear it up?One more thing to keep in mind: if an employer was to make a remark about image/hair to members of several American Indian tribes, he could be hauled into court for a discrimination lawsuit (with a few others thrown in!), since their religious beliefs forbid them from cutting their hair. Just something to think about.
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Hi Dan,Thanks so much for your reply.No...working at home is not an option. In fact, if I want to achieve what I want to achieve, I will have to be out in front of people all the time. So that is why the subject has come up before. I am sure it will again.Hmmmm, I need to figure a way to have it all except I am not sure that ever really works? Does it? Don't know but I would like to. :-)Best wishes,Karen> Maybe they would prefer the company of a CEO that> doesn't set trends, but follows them. A> "professional" with a cookie cutter> corporate cut. Cool, efficient and nonalluring.> Is working from home an option ;)
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> Karen--> Don't let "Corporate America" dictate your> look! Its standards are not only sexist ("Don't> look too pretty or sexy, or men won't take you> seriously!"), they're confining and superficial.> The more we refuse to acknowledge these> "professional attire guidelines," the less> "standard" they'll become.> Executives in a lot of cutting-edge companies are> wearing bright-colored hair, mohawks, and body> piercings. Stodgy traditionalists will eventually have> to recognize that a prim and conventional buttoned-up> look does NOT necessarily equal good service.> Please stick it out. Wear your hair as you like it.> AllyHi Ally,I will try and be brave. It is just so hard when you are trying to gain a reputation. I have so many bumps on my head from hitting it against glass ceilings that I sometime am mistaken for a unicorn with multiple horns. :-)I grew up in a family where my parents refused to let me go to college "because it only made sense to send the boys". Needless to say, I paid my way through every single degree that I got...and I got three of them.Even then I was banging my head with sexist graduate school professors who didn't understand why women wanted to study engineering or software.My entire career I have had to kick and scream and fight and be 5x better and accept a lot less pay. You know the old song and dance.I guess I am a 1 part wimp because I am almost where I want to be after 20 years of business hell and so I don't want my hair to get in the way.On one hand I don't want to sell out...on the other hand....once I get to my personal finish line I think I would even be willing to wear a mohawk to meet with the lawyers.I guess if I had already done what Bill Gates had...it would be easier.Very recently (too recent to not still sting) I had a boss tell me that I would never go where I wanted in corporate America "because I did not have the RIGHT image". Again the hair thing.Unfortunately I have not yet met a male CEO that had an earring. My industry....software & telecom....is still very conservative. Only the hard core software gurus are showing up in flowered shirts and Birkenstocks....at least here in Dallas.I want to know where those trendsetter executives are so I can call them up and do business with them. :-) It would be refreshing and liberating to negotiate a contract with a CEO with a Mohawk.I will try to be brave, but I will need help and encouragement to hang in there.I am definitely not thinking of cutting my hair. Just hiding it a little.Thanks for your encouragement Ally. It meant a lot.Best wishes,Karen
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