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Why does it seem like television is encouraging people to cut their long hair?

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Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:59pm
Thank you Jena for your reply.> As a person ages, lines start to appear on the face. Hair that is on> the side of the face that is straight down is parallel to the line> between the nose and mouth (kind of like the laugh line, but as we> get older, the line is still there even when we don't laugh!) In> other words, the straightness of the hair on the side accentuates the> line that I mentioned.I must admit this explanation puzzles me.The line between the nose and the mouth is relatively short, and, asyou say is there from a young age.The "age lines" that develop go in different directions. Those on theforehead go horizontally (perpendicular to the direction in which hairof some length flows), and other lines go at a diagonal from the sidesof the nose downwards to the outsides of the mouth, and back in towardsthe chin on the opposite diagonal. It would seem then, to me, that if"balancing ages lines" were a goal, then having hair flowing down atthe sides of the face would help balance those lines.But then again, to my eyes, if the hair (of a person with age lines) isshort, then that puts the face -- and the wrinkles -- more INTO focus,as there is less hair to capture (or distract) attention from thosewrinkles. Exactly the opposite of the conventional "wisdom" (which isan oxymoron, IMO).> Sometimes people with very long hair *can* (I'm definitely not saying> this is true for everyone at all) look older.Sometimes, yes, but it comes down to all of the other factors thatindicate a person's age. Forgive me if I seem a bit insensitive here,but a woman who is carrying an extra 50 pounds, has wrinkles on herface, and long hair is going to look older than a woman the same agewho is slender and has fewer wrinkles and short hair. However, whenall of the non-hair factors are constant, then virtually all the time,the woman with longer (well-kept) hair looks younger than a woman withshort hair. To my eyes, a middle-aged woman who cuts her hair shortimmediately looks 5-10 years older than before the haircut.> Also the sheer weight of the hair sometimes doesn't allow for more> body on the back of the head on top, sometimes making the hair look> bottom heavy which brings the eye focus "down" instead of up.Unless you're describing an up-do, why is having "body on the back ofthe head on top" a desirable characteristic in a hairstyle? Seems odd(unnatural). Of course, this idea of "body on the back of the top ofthe head" sounds very close to being that which I've heard describedin an uncomplimentary manner as big "mall-rat hair." Regardless, it'spurely subjective and to me, a smooth flowing of hair from the crownis much more visually appealing on a woman of any age.So if hair has weight on the bottom and your eye's attention is broughtto it, and it looks pleasing then why is that a problem? You would beglancing or looking at the hair itself and NOT the face... so I don'tunderstand why hair as you have described would drag THE FACE down.The hair might (momentarily) draw your attention to it (away from theface), but the face is still there to be seen. Right?To say that longer hair "drags the hair down" seems to imply that thehair and face are seamless. Well, in fact they are very clearly twodifferent and unique entities.> Please understand that I am definitely not a short-hair proponent at> all!Jena, please don't feel that you need apologize. It doesn't matter tome if you are a proponent or not of any length. Zorak's assessment ofme is not a fact, but is his judgment. While I do appreciate long hair,I have not (thus far) explicitly PROMOTED long hair. However, it wouldseem that I have spoken out (on HB) against haircut harassment directedat me and other long-haired people here.> The care of the hair makes a lot of difference in how the long hair> will look on the person.Indeed. Well-cared for hair always looks better than that which is notwell cared-for.Thanks again for your reply.Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:59pm
> > I don't understand this statement. What do you mean by "just sits> > there?".....I also wonder what you mean by "does nothing.">> I guess that I can kind of understand what he means: Long hair that> is long but not too long is really nice to look at because it moves> and flows, but when it gets too long it is just not as nice, because> the extra weight keeps it from moving like it does when it is long> but not too long.When very long hair is unrestrained, it flows and moves very nicely andalluringly. When and how it moves depends on the woman's movement, andit doesn't diminish as it gets longer. It may swing more slowly, but Isee this as being a good thing :-)> > Of all of the people I have known with long hair, I have never> > known any of them to see their long hair in this way.>> Well, or course the people who have the extremely long hair don't> consciously see it this way, it is a sub-conscious thing. Although I> did not write the orignal post, I absolutely agree with the idea that> people who grow their hair super-long and never cut it probably do> have a kind of sub-consicous security thing.I am among those who have what you would describe as very long orperhaps extremely long hair. I just cannot fathom the concept of myhaving my hair this way as being some sort of "security blanket."Perhaps some people can relate to the concept but I certainly cannot.As you state that "it is a sub-conscious thing," can you offer anyclinical evidence to support this hypothesis?> long hair is kind of soft and comforting, etc, Just like a child's> security blanket.Hair's softness, and hair being comforting (as in being deeply satisfiedthat one has the hair they love) can be appreciated without the burdenof a stigma such as you describe. Why must pleasures be guilty?Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:59pm
Hi Diane,Thanks for your reply.> When your hair is long it draws the eye down.What you're saying is that long hair captures one's attention. If thehair is healthy and attractive, why is that a bad thing?> Away from your eyes so it drags the face down.You're saying that it takes one's attention away from the other's eyesand towards their hair. Again, why is that a bad thing? If our hairis healthy and well-cared for, why do we not want people to see it andappreciate it?As I explained to Jena, I am not able to make the hair, eyes, and faceone seamless entity. To me, they are all separate entities. Long hairmay draw attention toward it and away from the face, but it does notactually "drag" the face down!Let's be fair. If the expression "long hair drags the face down" reallymeans "long hair is appealing to look at, and draws attention away fromthe eyes/face," then why is it said that the hair "drags the face down?"It seems to be a mis-statement, and it also seems to unfairly criticizethe hair for action it itself is not taking, but is causing in theunsuspecting eye of the beholder. Oh, what a crime it is that the hairis so beautiful that it has drawn our attention to it!> Sometimes if someone has a very small face the hair can hide your> face features.If the hair is in the face, yes. Your statment would seem to givereason for a small-faced person to avoid what are described as "face-framing" layers, right? But if the hair -- short or long -- is awaythe face then the hair is not hiding the facial features, regardless ofthe size of the face.> But at the same time it can accentuate the mouth, chin and neck,> which in some cases makes someone look older.And at times I've heard that these features "should" be accentuated byhaving the hair around them. Seems to be an inconclusive factor.> Where short hair on the same person makes them look younger because> you eye is drawn up to eye level.Here's another concept I do not grasp. What I read in this statementis that when the hair is short, there's little to capture the eye'sinterest or attention, so one has no "choice" but to look at theperson's eyes (not demeaning the act of looking at the other's eyes).But I cannot associate the lack of hair/focus on the eyes issue withthe determination of one's age -- I don't see how these two issues arerelated at all.> That's what they taught in beauty school anyway.Well, that's one "school of thought" on the issue. Though I havetrouble reconciling this conventional "wisdom" with logical reality.It would seem then that the application of this principle would be forstylists to dissuade clients from having long hair, as the belief isdispensed as fact that long hair will just "drag down your face," andso a shorter hairstyle will, on the contrary, bring "one's featuresinto focus." What I read in the recommendation is that the resultantshort hair style is so unappealing that the beholder's eye will shyaway from it, and thus, it serves as acknowledgement of the naturalappeal of hair that is not short. The advice to avoid "long hairbecause it drags the face down" also seems to pander to a presumedmental weakness to "gaze too long at beautiful long hair."> I personaly like to look a person in the eyes when I speak to them.So do I! But if a woman's hair is short, my attention is actuallydistracted AWAY from her face... I can't stop looking at the "carwreck" (as JerkyFlea put it) that my eyes see in their short, choppyhaircut. On the other hand, if a woman has long healthy hair, my eyesare pleased, and I quickly turn my attention to her eyes, as my eyesare assured that the hair is alright, I am able to focus on theperson's eyes -- and the conversation.> If your hair makes you feel good it doesn't matter...Yup.> It's just a technical term that hairstylists use to explain things.> I guess a better term is in order.Definitely! And a term that does not use the hair as a scapegoatfor the eyes' desires.Thanks again for your reply, Diane. Though I remain unconvinced ofthe "wisdom" behind the old saw, I would love to hear more repliesto my question if anybody wishes to do so.Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:59pm
>>> Of all of the people I have known with long hair, I have >>> never known any of them to see their long hair in this >>> way.>> Well, or course the people who have the extremely long>> hair don't consciously see it this way, it is a>> sub-conscious thing.> I am among those who have what you would describe as very> long or perhaps extremely long hair. I just cannot fathom> the concept of my having my hair this way as being some> sort of "security blanket."Well, not every person might be this way, but then you must consider that if it is sub-conscious, you won't have any idea unless you really do some careful introspection on this issue!> ...you state that "it is a sub-conscious thing," can you> offer any clinical evidence to support this hypothesis?Of course not. I don't know you from the next man in the street, so I certainly cannot speak from a position of "clinical authority" on your case :-)BUT, in the general case, it makes sense to me that some people will grow and keep very long hair as a security issue.>> long hair is kind of soft and comforting, etc, Just like >> a child's security blanket.> Hair's softness, and hair being comforting (as in being> deeply satisfied that one has the hair they love) can be> appreciated without the burden of a stigma such as you> describe.What stigma??? I used the term "child's security blanket" because not many adults carry around a security blanket. Maybe YOU think of it as stigmatizing because there is some kind of hidden guilt on your part :-)I mean, gee Dave: You are deeply satisfied so much that you are in love with your hair?? Is this kind of like a man who is in love with his wife's underwear and feels kind of guilty :-) :-) (honestly, just kidding here, no offense or implication intended!)> Why must pleasures be guilty?Who used the word "guilty" here first? Wasn't me!Zorak (formerly known as Lurker, but not now)
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> Here is another expression which I do not understand,> this concept of "dragging the face down." It makes> absolutely no sense to me. Where does the face get dragged> to? I thought it always rested on the front of the head?> Would anybody like to explain this concept in detail?It is just a matter of proportion. Hair that is too long without any kind of "face framing" effects (such as layers or curls or bangs, etc) can make the face look proportionally longer and narrower.Z.
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>>>> Of all of the people I have known with long hair, I have never>>>> known any of them to see their long hair in this way.>>>>>> Well, or course the people who have the extremely long>>> hair don't consciously see it this way, it is a>>> sub-conscious thing.>>>> I am among those who have what you would describe as very>> long or perhaps extremely long hair. I just cannot fathom>> the concept of my having my hair this way as being some>> sort of "security blanket.">> Well, not every person might be this way, but then you must consider that if it is> sub-conscious, you won't have any idea unless you really do some careful> introspection on this issue!>>> long hair is kind of soft and comforting, etc, Just like a child's>>> security blanket.>>>> Hair's softness, and hair being comforting (as in being deeply>> satisfied that one has the hair they love) can be appreciated>> without the burden of a stigma such as you describe.>> What stigma???The stigma I infer from your words is that adults who have very longhair use it as an emotional crutch due to insufficient psychologicaland emotional development.> I used the term "child's security blanket" because not many adults> carry around a security blanket.Do any?> Maybe YOU think of it as stigmatizing because there is some kind of> hidden guilt on your part :-)Oh, puhleeze.> I mean, gee Dave: You are deeply satisfied so much that you are in> love with your hair??Please re-read my sentence above. I was speaking of an indefinitethird party, using the pronoun "one" -- not "me."> Is this kind of like a man who is in love with his wife's underwear> and feels kind of guilty :-) :-) (honestly, just kidding here, no> offense or implication intended!)I don't know what that's like. Why don't you tell me?>> Why must pleasures be guilty?>>Who used the word "guilty" here first? Wasn't me!I sensed that you wished to impart a sense of guilt on those who havelong hair for having it.Dave
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> I sensed that you wished to impart a sense of guilt on> those who have long hair for having it.Honestly, no. I really don't care who has long hair, or blue hair, or no hair.I did kind of get unwound when, a few weeks ago, the whole debate about "I will NEVER cut my hair" came up.My point is that nobody can really predict what they will do tomorrow with absolute certainty; it is a better philosphy of living for one to accept changes as they happen and to be happy with things as they unfold.This does NOT mean that a person cannot have "likes" and "desires", it merely means accepting that you many not feel the same tomorrow as you do today.My major interest is personal growth and hearing about other's stories of personal growth 9no pun intended!). In your case, growing your hair long was a big step in your personal growth, you have called it a character building experience. For others, making a decision to cut their hair on a whim might be such a character building experience.Zorak
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 8:59pm
Wow, what a huge thread of messages have been generated by my comments about the woman whose long hair was cut on the Oprah Winfrey show last week.... and I haven't been a part of any of them. After returning to my computer from a three day conference, it has taken me two days just to work my way through the threads. Obviously there are a lot of issues that this have been generated.There seemed to be some issue over the fact that the question I brought up had already been overly discussed, but I think it is obvious by the resulting comments that there is still a lot that needs to be shared. I don't believe it is wrong to rehash issues, especially if someone feels it is important and there is more they want to say.I was unable to watch the Oprah show last week and didn't have the opportunity to tape it on my VCR. However, it appears to me from some of the postings, that the woman who received the haircut was not happy about her decision. Whether her reluctance and tears carried through after the show we may never know, but it apparently was obvious during and right after the haircut.I would like to make a comment regarding the question of this woman's ability to say "no" to the makeover. IMHO it illustrates a major difference in people and validates why many people are forced into making decisions that are actually against their own desires. Most of us would agree the world is made up of a wide variety of temperaments and personalities. People demonstrate these characteristics in a wide range of ways .... some are outgoing, others quiet, some introverted, others boisterous, some rigid in their convictions and other more open to change. And reactions to negative comments or constant criticism can vary according to these personalities. Some people are not sensitive to negative comments while others feel the pain of negativity very deeply. To say that someone can choose to "say no" illustrates a lack of understanding of human psychology. This woman was hassled for twenty years by her sister regarding her long hair. Do you realize how long that is to put up with constant nagging and criticism?To give an example: My wife and I are very much opposites (that's why we were attracted to each, right? :-) She is very strong in her convictions and not phased by criticism or other's opinions. As for me, I am very open to other ideas and easily see other points of view. I am also very sensitive to criticism. (This is not a critique of either personal makeup but just a statement of fact). I would be far more likely to buckle under a constant barrage of criticism than my wife, and yet both of us have valid personality types.I can understand the tears this woman must have had, especially if she made the decision to have her hair cut as a result of constant harassment. I also know how deep the pain would be to realize her mistake and the years she now faces to regain her long hair. This woman could easily require some serious psychological help after such an event. That doesn't mean she is weak, it doesn't mean she has a poor self image or that she is using her hair as a security blanket. It might just mean that the long hair was important to her. I don't think someone who prefers their hair short can ever understand the deep satisfaction one gets when their hair is long. Perhaps short haired people don't have this need, or else they have this satisfaction with their short hair but don't understand that someone could be different.Even my wife (and best friend) of thirty years cannot understand my deep seated desire to wear my hair long. It is buried so deeply within me that it is difficult to explain. Should I therefore yield to the desires of others just because they cannot understand? Perhaps someday I may decide to cut my hair short, but for now I have no desire and cannot see that day coming.I thought it was interesting to see the discussion regarding the issue of long hair as a "security blanket". It is very easy to say that about someone else but how can such a statement be made when none of us can get into another person's mind? That is like putting words into someone else's mouth. Each person is different. Yes, there may be some people who keep their hair long as a security blanket. They have had it that way for "x" number of years and they cannot imagine their hair any other way. But for others the reasons could be totally different. You just can't make such a generalization without any data for support.If I was using my hair as a security blanket I would wear it short. That is the way the world seems to accept (particularly) male hair. As a person who does not like to stand out in a crowd, I have chosen a hairstyle that most definitely sets me apart in most situations. I sit in a prominent position in front of over 1200 people every other week when I play the piano in church. I am one of only three or four long haired guys in our church and mine is definitely the longest (mid-back length). I would not choose long hair as a security blanket in that situation! My hair is long, as I have stated, for much deeper reasons.Thank you to each person who has contributed to this thread (and all the others on the board). We are a community of people who share ideas, beliefs, encouragement, (and perhaps sometimes a bit of discouragement), tips, etc. We may not see each other but over time we become virtual friends. Perhaps not all agreeing, but at least in part showing that we have a vested interest in discussing hair.Good luck to each of you as you strive to live your life to the fullest. God bless you.Kent
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Dave,Did you see the show? I didn't get to watch it, the TV promo said it was going to be "make-unders" (not "make-overs"). Hmmmmm. Well, what did Oprah say when the lady was crying over her loss? That would have been terrible to watch. What did her sister say? Was she happy she made her sister cry?
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> Hi Diane,> Thanks for your reply.> What you're saying is that long hair captures one's> attention. If the> hair is healthy and attractive, why is that a bad> thing?Dave,Im not saying anything about long hair capturing attention or being bad. I just answered your question with the knowledege I had on the subject. I made no opinion I was generalizing.> You're saying that it takes one's attention away from> the other's eyes> and towards their hair.No, what I ment was that draging can cause your eye to focas on flaws on your face not the hair. So instead of having attention on your flaw excntuate something positive like your eyes.Again, why is that a bad> thing? If our hair> is healthy and well-cared for, why do we not want> people to see it and> appreciate it?I never said healthy hair is a bad thing! I was just trying to explain my answer to your question on draging thats all I was no making an opinion. Healthy hair is beautiful hair!> As I explained to Jena, I am not able to make the> hair, eyes, and face> one seamless entity. To me, they are all separate> entities. Long hair> may draw attention toward it and away from the face,> but it does not> actually "drag" the face down!> Let's be fair. If the expression "long hair drags> the face down" really> means "long hair is appealing to look at, and> draws attention away from> the eyes/face," then why is it said that the hair> "drags the face down?" It seems to be a mis-statement, and it also seems toDraging isnt ment to drag on the hair as it is to the face. Because the hair can excentuate the flaws on the face and give the allusion of premature age. So By lifting the hair up towards the eyes(only an example and by the way not mine.) you bring the attention to the eye instead of the wrinkles,lines, double chine, whatever.unfairly criticize> the hair for action it itself is not taking, but is> causing in the> unsuspecting eye of the beholder. Oh, what a crime it> is that the hair> is so beautiful that it has drawn our attention to it!I personaly made no criticizme of anyone! I only gave an answer to a technical term as I understood it. I didnt nessisarly agree with it.If the hair is in the face, yes. Your statment would> seem to give> reason for a small-faced person to avoid what are> described as "face-> framing" layers, right? But if the hair -- short> or long -- is away> the face then the hair is not hiding the facial> features, regardless of> the size of the face.If the face is small and someone has a lot of hair and it is around the face its POSSIBLE to hide all of there features especialy if they wear glasses. Im sorry if you misunderstood that was a general statement not nessisarliy an aqurite one. These were only general examples to the question on draging and not my own opinion. Face framing depends on the face and the person.And at times I've heard that these features> "should" be accentuated by> having the hair around them. Seems to be an> inconclusive factor.These are not my words. It depends on the person and the features they wish to accentuated or not.> Here's another concept I do not grasp. What I read in> this statement> is that when the hair is short, there's little to> capture the eye'sYou misunderstood what I ment. what I said was"Where short hair on the same person makes them look younger because your eye is drawn up to eye level." What was ment was to get the attention on the eyes and away from the flaws! I never said anything about, little to capture the eyes.interest or attention, so one has no> "choice" but to look at the> person's eyes (not demeaning the act of looking at the> other's eyes).> But I cannot associate the lack of hair/focus on the> eyes issue with> the determination of one's age -- I don't see how> these two issues are> related at all.The connetion is that if your looking at someones eyes your not looking at there wrinkles (or other flaws) and wrinkles can mean age.Well, that's one "school of thought" on the> issue. Though I have> trouble reconciling this conventional> "wisdom" with logical reality.> It would seem then that the application of this> principle would be for> stylists to dissuade clients from having long hair, as> the belief is> dispensed as fact that long hair will just "drag> down your face," and> so a shorter hairstyle will, on the contrary, bring> "one's features> into focus." What I read in the recommendation is> that the resultant> short hair style is so unappealing that the beholder's> eye will shy> away from it, and thus, it serves as acknowledgement> of the natural> appeal of hair that is not short. The advice to avoid> "long hair> because it drags the face down" also seems to> pander to a presumed> mental weakness to "gaze too long at beautiful> long hair."That is so far of base! Im am very ofended by that comment! Im all the years I have been doing hair I have never once tried to sway someone to cut ther long hair!! I pride myself into listening to the client and trying to give them exactly what they wish. As a matter of fact most of my clients were long haired clients woman as well as men. The drag thing is only an opinion and its not nesisarily mine! you seem to want to shoot the messanger. I only gave you the knowledge that I had. If you want my presonal opinion then please ask me directly but dont insult me!The drag on the face depends on the face and not everyone(Im sorry to say) has a face for long hair. And still others do not look good with short hair. I belive you must wear what you feel best with Im not making judgments.> So do I! But if a woman's hair is short, my attention> is actually> distracted AWAY from her face... I can't stop looking> at the "car> wreck" (as JerkyFlea put it) that my eyes see in> their short, choppy> haircut. On the other hand, if a woman has long> healthy hair, my eyes> are pleased, and I quickly turn my attention to her> eyes, as my eyesAre you making remarkes adout "short,choppy hair"? :)I would like to say one other thing (in general): Most hairstylist love long hair!! At least the ones that I have known. There are a lot of sterio types out there about us. Just because we learn something like the drag thing dosent mean we use it or belive in it. I most certinly dont!! Just remember stylist are people were good and bad just like every other person! Were not all hackers and long hair haters! We love hair especialy healthy hair and want eveyone to be able to have it and enjoy it! So take the time and find the right stylist one that cares about you as well as your hair!Dave, I hope I cleared this up for you. I would be glad to discuss more on the subject with you. I wasnt making personal attacks on long hair I just told you what I know and was general about it. I look forward to all your other postings.:)HAPPY HEALTHY HAIR!!Diane K.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:00pm
Hi Diane,> The drag thing is only an opinion and its not nesisarily mine! you> seem to want to shoot the messanger. I only gave you the knowledge> that I had. If you want my presonal opinion then please ask me> directly but dont insult me!First of all, I feel I owe you an apology. My only intent was and isto understand technically what this one term means, so I'm sorry if youfelt that my questions were directed at you or your opinions. Pleasebe assured that my questions are not directed at either you personallyor at your opinions, but rather on the technical aspects of thissubjective issue at hand.> Im all the years I have been doing hair I have never once tried to> sway someone to cut ther long hair!! I pride myself into listening> to the client and trying to give them exactly what they wish. As a> matter of fact most of my clients were long haired clients woman as> well as men.I fully believe you. I am not and was never questioning your feelingson that subject. I'm not saying that you personally promote theconcept. The point was that I have often seen and heard this horriblesounding phrase applied to long hair by stylists as (at least partial)justification for cutting long hair short.> > ...unfairly criticize the hair for action it itself is not taking.>> I personaly made no criticizme of anyone! I only gave an answer to a technical> term as I understood it. I didnt nessisarly agree with it.Please understand I was not saying that YOU were criticizing anythingor anybody. i speak of the term being used to criticize long hair.> No, what I ment was that draging can cause your eye to focas on flaws on your> face not the hair. So instead of having attention on your flaw excntuate> something positive like your eyes.I wonder if a study has been done to back this claim that "dragging cancause your eyes to focus on flaws on your face." It just doesn't seemplausible to me. Note, I'm not saying that such a study doesn't exist,but I would be surprised if there was one -- and if so, to see how theexperiments were designed and conducted.> Because the hair can excentuate the flaws on the face and give the> allusion of premature ageHow so? (Please understand I am questioning the wisdom behind such astatement, not you personally, Diane!)> So By lifting the hair up towards the eyesThus making the hair quite short...> you bring the attention to the eye instead of the wrinkles,lines,> double chine, whatever.Of course, immediately surrounding the eyes are the crow's feet, andthe puffy bags underneath, etc... the skin immediately surrounding theeyes are not immune from wrinkles. So the whole effort to make a hairstyle put focus on the eyes would seem to be for naught?> The connetion is that if your looking at someones eyes your not looking at> there wrinkles (or other flaws) and wrinkles can mean age.If someone has wrinkles on their face but has healthy beautiful hairthen wouldn't (some amount of) attention towards their hair, insteadof solely to the eyes (around which are wrinkles!) help one noticethe wrinkles less?> The drag on the face depends on the face and not everyone(Im sorry to say)> has a face for long hair. And still others do not look good with short hair. I> belive you must wear what you feel best with Im not making judgments.> Are you making remarkes adout "short,choppy hair"? :)Looks like we both have :-)> I would like to say one other thing (in general): Most hairstylist> love long hair!! At least the ones that I have known.Hey, that's good to know!> There are a lot of sterio types out there about us.Sadly, there are some who are not so sensitive to their customersexpress wishes...> Just because we learn something like the drag thing dosent mean we> use it or belive in it. I most certinly dont!!It's interesting to note that although you learned the technicalsbehind the description and passed the test questions in school thatasked "how and why does long hair drag the face down," it's notnecessarily believed or applied, by you and some number of others.Essentially, the way I see it, the school is teaching a subjectivematter as if it were fact, which it is not.> Just remember stylist are people were good and bad just like every> other person! Were not all hackers and long hair haters! We love hair> especialy healthy hair and want eveyone to be able to have it and> enjoy it! So take the time and find the right stylist one that cares> about you as well as your hair!Yes, good stylists do exist. I've been fortunate to have been servedby several. Unfortunately I have moved too often :-)> I would be glad to discuss more on the subject with you.As would I, because...> Dave, I hope I cleared this up for you.I regret to say that I must be the most dense man in this world becausethe basis of the whole concept of how "long hair drags the face down"is completely lost on me.Thank you for both of your replies to my question.Take care, Diane :-)Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jena Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:00pm
To Dave, I think that "dragging the face down" can be compared to parallel matters reinforcing and accentuating the other. For instance, a person with a very round face will make it look even rounder if he wears perfectly round glasses. However, a different shape will make his face look less round. (Opposites attract?) If a woman has a long face, a part down the middle only makes her face look longer, but a part on the side will shorten it. If a person has a "spare tire" around his middle, which will make him look thinner, vertical or horizontal stripes? The horizontal stripes just accentuate the roundness of the belly. That's why we need to choose "opposite" or at least different lines to de-emphasize that to which we don't wish to draw attention.When two things are similar (long straight hair next to long lines on the face) they reinforce their commonality.Please understand that I'm not advocating short hair at all! But there is a reason why *some* people look better with it.One question, Dave: If long hair does the opposite of dragging the face down with an older woman who has wrinkles, then why don't more women 65+ wear their hair long (not in a bun)? Wouldn't they want to look the best they can?
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I just remembered a friend of mine who has the opposite concern of many women here. She wears her hair a few inches below her shoulders but she would prefer it much shorter! However, longer hair just looks better on her. She has coarse facial features, and when her hair is short (I've only seen it in pictures that she has), the face is emphasized, and her nose, mouth, and jawline are more prominent. This is good for some people, and not so good for others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:01pm
Hi JM,I did see the show. The definition of makeover/makeunder is a purely asemantic issue, and they amount to the same thing.Seeing that the women was visibly extremely upset (she was a waterfallof tears, Oprah said "it's beautiful/perfect/gorgeous/etc" and turnedto the audience for support. The sister who begged her to cut? Shewas also crying. I don't understand why.Hope this answers your questions.Dave
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:01pm
> To Dave, I think that "dragging the face> down" can be compared to parallel matters> reinforcing and accentuating the other. For instance,> a person with a very round face will make it look even> rounder if he wears perfectly round glasses. However,> a different shape will make his face look less round.> (Opposites attract?) If a woman has a long face, a> part down the middle only makes her face look longer,> but a part on the side will shorten it. If a person> has a "spare tire" around his middle, which> will make him look thinner, vertical or horizontal> stripes? The horizontal stripes just accentuate the> roundness of the belly. That's why we need to choose> "opposite" or at least different lines to> de-emphasize that to which we don't wish to draw> attention.Hi Jena,I understand all of these ideas. It seems, though, that most of the age lines that form on the face run in a horizontal direction, and, to a lesser extent, on a diagonal -- with very few vertical lines. So, along the lines you have drawn (no pun intended) it would seem to make more sense to have hair that hangs down (at least past the chin) to provide some vertical contrast to the age lines on the face which are mostly horizontal.Also, it would seem to make sense then that a person who has a wide or round face would benefit by wearing longer hair, to help balance that width. Right?Of course, all of this assumes that hair is given the responsibility to perform the function of "trying to offset facial age lines and wrinkles." It seems to me such an aesthetic burden to place on the hair.> When two things are similar (long straight hair next> to long lines on the face) they reinforce their> commonality.> Please understand that I'm not advocating short hair> at all! But there is a reason why *some* people look> better with it.> One question, Dave: If long hair does the opposite of> dragging the face down with an older woman who has> wrinkles, then why don't more women 65+ wear their> hair long (not in a bun)? Wouldn't they want to look> the best they can?One would think so, yes. Perhaps they had previously fallen victim to the oft-dispensed myth that one must cut their long hair short by 30/40? I think I know this to be a big part of the reason why several older women I know -- who used to have very long hair -- keep their hair short now.Dave
David M Squires
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