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To sue or not to sue...

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    Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:42pm
Ok, here's a hypothetical situation (which isn't so hypothetical: it's happened before). A long haired person goes to a salon to get the hair trimmed one inch. And I repeat, ONE INCH. The person makes this clear to the stylist. The stylist takes off five or six inches. The no longer long-haired person gets angry and threatens to sue. Do you think s/he has the right to sue, or do you think this is not a big enough deal to take to court? I would say, go on and sue the stylist.
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The stylist should have gone with a buzzcut, no one needs five or six extra inches of hair. Long hair is for those who are too cheap to buy winter caps to keep their necks warm. Too much hair covers up our real personalities!
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Diane from Canada View Drop Down
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> The stylist has the responsibility to carry out the wishes of his or her customer no matter if it is long hair or short hair customer in mind. If they don't they shouldn't be in business as it all base on customer service.Anytime a business does not carry the wishes of the customer that customer has a decision to make to sue or not sue depending on the damage on hand. Bringing someone to court is expensive and very time consuming.For these two reasons the message that should be past to others is to look for a salon that has an excellent reputation for service.This has never happen to me personally as I have done my research but if it did I would drag their butt to court.
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Diane from Canada View Drop Down
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> The stylist should have gone with a buzzcut, no one> needs five or six extra inches of hair. Long hair is> for those who are too cheap to buy winter caps to keep> their necks warm. Too much hair covers up our real> personalities!This is so obvious that it is a passing by person.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jade21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:43pm
Hi, PD!I think your question is cool!First, L (long-haired person) definitely has a right to sue. The S (stylist) has committed negligence. No different than if I hired a painter to paint my walls cream and he paints them green. Even if painter refuses to redo the job, I can hire another painter to redo the job, seek reimbursement or go to court and sue painter for cost of repairing his work. Too bad this can't be done with hair.Second, L sues S, but the real question is damages. Unless hair can be given some value, for example, a long-haired model whose hair is source of income, the best to hope for is nominal damages--like maybe $1.00 depending on the court. No compensatory and no punitive damages otherwise--the real bucks, girl!But, I tell you what I would suggest. I would say either through written or oral form basically tear the stylist to shreds. It's not libel(written) and it's not slander(oral) because truth would be a defense. Simply, develop a flyer,nothing too fancy, and send it to customers, saying something like "S cut 5-6 inches of my hair when I adamantly requested 1 inch to be trimmed. Don't let this happen to you. Choose your stylist wisely." Oh, and be sure to include a "before" and "after" picture. Stylists hate to lose business:)All the Best,JadeOk, here's a hypothetical situation (which isn't so> hypothetical: it's happened before). A long haired> person goes to a salon to get the hair trimmed one> inch. And I repeat, ONE INCH. The person makes this> clear to the stylist. The stylist takes off five or> six inches. The no longer long-haired person gets> angry and threatens to sue. Do you think s/he has the> right to sue, or do you think this is not a big enough> deal to take to court? I would say, go on and sue the> stylist.
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> Ok, here's a hypothetical situation...A long haired> person goes to a salon to get the hair trimmed one> inch....The stylist takes off five or six inches.> Do you think s/he has the right to sue, or do you think> this is not a big enough deal to take to court?Two questions, two answers: 1) of course the person has a right to sue....you can file a civil suit over any tort (any injury); 2) is it a "big enough deal" for court - the answer is "how deep are your pockets"?Not many lawyers will take this on contingency! For one thing, it is very likely to be *laughed at by a jury*, very little chance of winning *any kind* of monetary judgement.So, you would have to PAY the lawyer to file the suit. Look at about $5000 to get it into a court, IF you get that far.Also, there is the issue of the "preponderence of evidence" (that is the standard by which civil trials are judged). To win, you would have to provide a "preponderence of evindence" that the stylist had cut off more than you requested. Not likely, IMO. Since it is the stylists job to cut hair, you would have to prove (by a preponderance of the evidence submitted) that the stylist had cut more than you requested, and probably you would have to show that she/he did it recklessly and maliscously, ie, it was outside the scope of his or her duties and job function.Good luck, you will NEED IT.Also, there is the "time factor": by the time your case gets into a courtroom (and you have put up mucho dinero), you would have had time to grow about two or three feet of hair!!! No kidding here at all! From the time the suit is filed until you get your "day in court", count on two or three years.> I would say, go on and sue the stylist.BAH! You have obviously never been involved in a lawsuit, either as a plaintiff or defendant. If you had, you would know that a lawsuit is NOT TO BE TAKEN LIGHTLY AT ALL.Don't be a fool. Have you even been deposed in a lawsuit? It ain't pleasn't at all! The opposing lawyer treats you like a fool, and asks all kinds of embarassing questions about your life. Being either the plaintiff or defendand in a lawsuit is the pits, it makes your life hell.Oh, and there is always the possibility of a COUNTERSUIT for damages resulting from the filing of a FRIVILOUS LAWSUIT! You might be hit for BIG BUCKS if you sue for a really bogus claim.Don't be a bozo. Lawsuits are for things like medical negligence and wrongful death. Like when a truck driver drinks and drives and kills someone.Cut-off hair doesn't EVEN come up to the standard of meriting a lawsuit!Sheesh.Zorak
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> First, L (long-haired person) definitely has a right> to sue. The S (stylist) has committed negligence.Perhaps. But it will have to be shown in court by a preponderence of the eveidence.GOOD LUCK.> the best to hope for is nominal damages--like maybe $1.00> depending on the court.Exactly why no lawyer will take this on contingent fees basis. Thus, be prepared to fork out thousands to get an attorney to file a claim.> But, I tell you what I would suggest. I would say> either through written or oral form basically tear the> stylist to shreds. It's not libel(written) and it's> not slander(oral) because truth would be a defense.Truth is a defense against libel and slander, but do you really want to be taken to court so that you can try to use truth as a defense???I can almost guarantee you that a stylist will have an easier time getting damages from someone who pulls this kind of stunt (making up a flier and passing it out) than you will have suing the stylist for cutting too much hair.WHY? Because, 1)libel and slander are widely recognized as actual torts, but cutting off too much hair (as long as it is within a stylist's scope of duty to cut the hair) is not going to be recognized too much; and 2)there will be ample evidence of your tort against the stylist (your insulting flier) vs. your difficulty in gathering the preponderence of the evidence that the stylists disobeyed your instructions.Z.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Erika Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:43pm
Hello,I would certainly be very unhappy over losing 5 or 6 inches, but I wouldn't sue over it. I suppose that I would have a right to, but it wouldn't really be worth the trouble. I'd just tell everyone never to see that particular stylist. However, if the cut I didn't ask for was more drastic, say they cut my past waist length hair to chin length (that would be cutting off nearly 2 ft.), I would probably take them to small claims court over it. I would do this partly to generate negative press (I'd also try to tell the local papers, write letters to the editor, etc.) for the stylist and the salon and partly for "the principle of the thing." I wouldn't bother with a regular court, for the reasons Zorak has mentioned.Erika> Ok, here's a hypothetical situation (which isn't so> hypothetical: it's happened before). A long haired> person goes to a salon to get the hair trimmed one> inch. And I repeat, ONE INCH. The person makes this> clear to the stylist. The stylist takes off five or> six inches. The no longer long-haired person gets> angry and threatens to sue. Do you think s/he has the> right to sue, or do you think this is not a big enough> deal to take to court? I would say, go on and sue the> stylist.
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Jena View Drop Down
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> Don't be a bozo. Lawsuits are for things like medical> negligence and wrongful death. Like when a truck> driver drinks and drives and kills someone.> Cut-off hair doesn't EVEN come up to the standard of> meriting a lawsuit!> Sheesh.No kidding! Sure, getting "more" of a haircut than you requested can be very upsetting, but let's get a grip. It's *hair* and it grows! For someone to be so upset to the point of suing suggests that the person has some real mental problems far beyond a bad haircut that need to be dealt with. Such a huge attachment to hair that would cause mental anguish if it were cut suggests a less than stable person.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Erika Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:43pm
However, I doubt that the stylist would be able to cut my hair to chin length , assuming that he/she used proper technique and didn't just chop my braid off to be mean(which would definately be a good reason to head to small claims court), without me noticing in the process, stopping him/her, refusing to pay, and leaving right then and there.> Hello,> I would certainly be very unhappy over losing 5 or 6> inches, but I wouldn't sue over it. I suppose that I> would have a right to, but it wouldn't really be worth> the trouble. I'd just tell everyone never to see that> particular stylist. However, if the cut I didn't ask> for was more drastic, say they cut my past waist> length hair to chin length (that would be cutting off> nearly 2 ft.), I would probably take them to small> claims court over it. I would do this partly to> generate negative press (I'd also try to tell the> local papers, write letters to the editor, etc.) for> the stylist and the salon and partly for "the> principle of the thing." I wouldn't bother with a> regular court, for the reasons Zorak has mentioned.> Erika
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:43pm
>I live in a very big city. Most beauty shops are notconcerned about law suits. Many long hair ladies arebeing hit hard with buzz cut and crew cut hair styles.The stylist knows it is hard for a costumer to win asuit. The cost for a lady to file is very high. Thereare many stylists,at my beauty shop,that have said requested a cut of one inch,and got 16 inches cut off. their was a lady with long hair to to middle of the back,that got her long hear sheared of down less that 2 inches all over,with the beauty shop clippers. Many beauticians have no timefor long hair. Long hair ladies are having their long haircut from 12 to 24 inches leaving only 1 to 2 inches onthe ladies heads. No matter if the beautician hears whatthe customer says,the lady will normally get a drastichaircut. THe beauticians are under time constraints,andwill give long haired ladies a one inch crewcut or buzz cuts.,opn a frequent basisMost beauticians will ignore a one inch trim request,and give most of the ladies with long hair a haircut to cut off down to one or two inches on thier head. A law suit is very hard to win. A lady who goesinto a beauty shop,faces a high risk of getting her long HAIR buzzed with the barber clippers. You will never get any money,in a law suit,but the lady will end up the WITH the super short haircut everytime. Most beauticianbs think Crewcuts and buzz cuts are popular on many former long hair ladies. I live in a very big city and I have long hairfall off all over in many beauty shops in my big city.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:43pm
> Hello,> if the cut I didn't ask for was more drastic, say they> cut my past waist length hair to chin length (that would> be cutting off nearly 2 ft.), I would probably take them> to small claims court over it.First, small claims court is probably more the likely place for this sort of thing. Actually, the People's Court on TV may be more the venue (-:Really, small claims court rules are much more relaxed, but vary *greatly* from state to state and amongst municipalities.But, damage amounts are limited, and rules of evidence and proof still apply. It is not quite a zoo....In a case such as you postulate, don't you think the stylist's defense will be "I just did exactly what she asked me to do, and I cannot help it if she changed her mind about the haircut after the fact".And then the Judge would ask you "If you wanted one-inch cut off, and the stylist started cutting your hair off at your chin, why didn't you yell "stop!" or "don't!" or "NO!", or even just leap out of the chair and leave the salon?.The point being that the burden of proof is on the plaintiff, and the standard will be the preponderence of the evidence presented. The court's assumption is that you went to the salon for a haircut, and if you got a haircut, the contract is complete.In any court in any jurisdiction you will have a HARD time getting any money or other satisfaction.Now, if you can produce some credible witness that backs up your claim....maybe a different story as per the outcome. But, it would basically have to be something like "Your honor, she screamed and begged and pleaded, but the rotten ba*trd sytlist just kept hacking and laughing and teasing. Oh my god, it was the most horrific hair butchery I have ever witnessed!"I can almost guarantee that anyone who sits in a stylist's chair, and allows the stylist to whack off two feet after they asked for a tiny trim, without making a LOUD verbal and perhaps physical protest (like, getting up from the chair and leaving), and allows the stylist to complete the haircut.....will have a damn hard time with any kind of "lawsuit" against the stylist.You would have a LOT EASIER time if you left with your hair partially cut off, took lots of photographs of the half-cut-off hair, and then filed the suit in small claims court, after going to another stylist to complete the butchery, AND keeping the cut-off hair from the "fixer up" haircut to present as evidence in court. Oh, and bring lots of old pictures of yourself smiling and happy with you former long hair intact and attached to your head.By leaving the "butchery salon" in a hurry with the haircut incomplete, you have set up a presumption that you did not wait around to let the stylist finish his undesired and dastardly butchery of your hair, something that a "reasonable man" (like a jurist or Judge) would expect from a "shocked" woman who had just seen her hair drastically shorn against her will.Z.
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> However, I doubt that the stylist would be able to cut> my hair to chin length.......without me noticing in> the process, stopping him/her, refusing to pay, and> leaving right then and there.Absolutely!!! This is exactly the way to handle the situation that you have postulated. It gives you much more leway as an possible plaintiff in a lawsuit.> assuming that he/she used proper technique and didn't> just chop my braid off to be mean (which would definately> be a good reason to head to small claims court)Like I said, if you can bring a credible witness, or previously violated clients, to support your claim of cruelty or malicious behavior, then you might have a case!Of course, if the mean old stylist had no prior history for you to reveal in a claim, and there were no witnesses, and with his sharp shears he was able to very quickly whack off the braid before you could so much as emit a squeal......Hey, lets not get TOO neurotic around here, OK?? (-:Z.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cindy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:43pm
> I am a lady who lives in a large metropolitan area.About three years ago, I got the biggest haircut of mylife. I only wanted a one inch trim from the stylist.I had thick,heavy hair,that went down to the middle ofthe back. I sat down on the barber chair,and I told thebeautician, I wanted a one inch trim. He said okay a oneinch trim. Well,in a few minutes, I froze in total shock,as around 18 inches of my pretty,thick,long hair fell downto the floor,being cut by scissors,close to my head. I hadonly two inches of hair left on my head on the top. Thestylist then ran the barber clippers up above my ears andup the back of my head. My middle of the back,long hairall laid on the floor. I looked in the mirror,and I lookedlike a man. The stylist said "you were long overdue fora good supershort haircut" "In our business, very shorthair is a good experience,for all the ladies" "Lady Ido not care if you want a trim, I am going to give youa supershort hair cut,that I think you will look good in""What are you going to do? sue me?" then he laughed"All my long hair lady customers get supershort clippercuts from me" "I do not care about one inch trims"I lost money filing a law suit two years ago. The law suitwas based on my verbal testimony and the stylists testimony.The judge said I got a haircut,and thats what the stylistgave me. He said to me "case dismissed " I lost aboutthree years hair growth,in my big haircut,but it has grownback,since the three years has now come to pass.
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> I am a young married woman,who just wanted one inchtrim in a big city beauty shop. I had almost waist lengthhair. I thought maybe a trim would be nice,to trim thesplit ends. The lady stylist said just sit back and relaxI will give you a better hair style,and I said okay.In a couple minutes around 26 inches of hair fell on mymy lap,as a lady sylist ran the clippers thru my thick,pretty long hair. I had just a little less than 2 inches ofhair over left on my head,after she finished. I criedfor awhile and I was shocked. My pretty heavy long hair,wassheared by the stylist barber clippers,like a cheap toy.The stylist said" very short hair is the style for allladies in the present time" I just looked at the largeamount of my hair on the floor.A lot of beauty shops are going to give ladies the super short haircut,the stylist wants. The beauty shops will notgive the lady a haircut,that they want. Beauty shops tellladies long hair is a troublesome appendage,and its needssome drastic cutting,to a maintaince free style. The beautyshops feel they can give a long hair lady,a good super shorthaircut,just because it is the current syle.A law suit is very costly,and very time consuming,anda lady will rarely win a lawsuit against a beauty shop.> There is a rapid increase in ladies getting unwantedsuper short haircuts. The problem is the worst it hasever been,in many beauty shops across the United States.My husband was shocked at how short my hair was.> But he said it will eventually grow back.
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As far as I'm concerned, this is a form of rape.Jennifer Eve
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This is something I thought of, too, to jump up and loudly scream in protest. I don't understand sitting there and allowing it to happen, except that for some strange reason, the public views hair cutters (note I didn't call them "sylists") as gods, as though they had to obtain PhDs to get their jobs. So they sit there and allow the damage to continue. Also, perhaps people know that once the first damaging cut is made, they will have to get it all sheared, anyway, whether at that salon or at another. For some odd reason, society dictates that our hair has to be in a regular style, evenly cut or whatever. I can't imagine a better vendetta against the salon than to wear your hair long with that one section chopped out, at least for a little while. Every person you meet will wonder, and then you can tell your tale... Heck, stand near the salon for an hour some Saturday afternoon!The only other options are to bring someone along with you as a witness or to have a prepared, written agreement that the stylist would have to sign before you even sit in the chair. State on it your current length and the maximum allowed to be trimmed. Have a "before" photo handy, too. Also, require the cut portions be given to you.I haven't been in a regular salon for 12 years, so the opinions of those cutters mean utterly nothing to me. I occasionally go to a longhair stylist who's creed is to keep his clients' trust. This is so important, that he'll trim even less than you request, if he believes it's in your best interests. But of course, he'll discuss it with you first!Jennifer Eve
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Jena,I have to disagree. The hair cutter that does this to his/her clients reveals a very malicious personality, certainly one that probably shouldn't be in a service type of job. Hair stylists are supposed to respect and listen to their customers, aren't they? If this happens to someone, you can bet your bottom dollar that it's happened to a lot of other people, and that they also feel violated, to one degree or another. Such behavior, as described in many of these posts, shows that this is not uncommon. This raises red flags that the procurers of hair "care" are often pretty callous individuals. What an education this discussion is!There are bound to be a wide variety of feelings associated with the barbarous act being discussed here. I find it really cruel, as I stated above. All I could see were 53 inches of my hair on the floor, if only 2 inches were left. That's nearly 12 years' growth, and I'd like to think that in the next 12 years, my hair will be even longer than it is now, prehaps to my feet, not just being regrown. You may find that odd, and I can accept that, but it's who I am nonetheless. Maybe your hair grows quickly, but mine doesn't, and it would reflect a tremendous loss to me. I don't, however, consider myself to have "real mental problems," as you suggest, and I find such quick judgments of people who feel differently from you to be disturbing.Jennifer Eve
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffrey Hines Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:44pm
The stories looked too simular so I checked. Both use a small ISP in Iowa. Not much chance that 2 people from Iowa would independently visit this board within 1 hour. So either they are the same person or working in concert. And if they are telling the truth, then long hair ladies stay away from Iowa.Jeff.
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>The hair cutter that does this to> his/her clients reveals a very malicious personality,> certainly one that probably shouldn't be in a service> type of job.I very much do agree. And I think a talk with the manager of the salon is very understandable.>All I> could see were 53 inches of my hair on the floor, if> only 2 inches were left.The original post said 5-6 inches of hair were cut off. Are you saying that someone cut off 53 inches of your hair and left you with *two* when that wasn't your intent at all!? If so, that indeed is a very different situation from 5 inches!
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