QuoteReplyTopic: Hair rules at work Posted: May 12 2000 at 5:38pm
Hello Bobbedguy:
When you enter that type of instituition you pay a lot of money for any of those programs. You are fully prepared. In that institution they transform the candidates into an idea person for the business market. There is a range of ages. You can have a person that just graduated from highschool and has no idea what the business sector is like and you can have people who want to change their career and will be successful in finding a new career by going to that intitution. In the classes it is very much employer-employee conduct so everyone has to dress up as they are going to work in that specialized field. In the area where I live it is very conservative so it makes sense that the institution would strongly encourage all candidates to dress to fit right in. Yes Bobbedguy the hair issue was brought up. They are very serious about having all their candidates succeed in their career choice and going there is very expensive and their success rate of placing their students in the specilized fields is very high and their reputation is very good. People are proud that they went to that intituition so they must know what they are doing or advising for this territory. The only point that I am making is that they have researched this territory and they are working with it.
dianefromcanada
bobbedguy
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: December 06 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 52
diane, Did they specifically single out hair or was it brought up in another fashion? I really think that these people are going too far with these restrictions. Although I don't necessarily agree with businesses dictating a persons hair length/style I can see some bases for that, but taking a course is another thing. Why should they care what your hair looks like? You are paying for the class.
dianefromcanada
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Member
Joined: December 15 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 559
I am starting a course at an elite secondary school. We were told to dress business like and we were told that noone will be seen around the school with spike hair or any wild colors as the business sector will not hire such candidates. I joke and said " oh well I will have to cancel my appointment next week" and of course everyone thought it was funny. Of course the instructor knew I was joking as I have long hair.
Diane from Canada
dianefromcanada
bobbedguy
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: December 06 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Respect and admiration must be urned no matter what length or style your hair is. I assure you that in the corporate world there are many women with crewcut type styles and they are not humiliated or unrespected. Hair should be a display of personality and should not determine whether you get a job or not. Prejudging someone on their hair length or style makes you overlook the person themselves. Some of the great geniouses had what is considered long hair and some of the laziest people on the planet probably have short hair. If a guy with long hair showed up for a job interview and you looked at his long hair and automatically drew your conclusion that he wasn't presentable and would probably not be a good employee then you stand a great chance of turning away a person that may well be your best employee simply because of hair. To me that is pretty shallow and dumb.
Well, their reasoning is that it's culturally unacceptable and startling for a woman to wear a buzz cut. She would be the object of humiliation instead of respect.
That same rationale applies to jewelry. Women can wear one earring of an approved type in each each ear. Men may wear none.
Ally
bobbedguy
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: December 06 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Why does a skirt and jacket automatically mean pantyhose? I like bare legs. You always have the choice not to wear pantyhose and if anyone asks say that they make you break out or something. I think that companies are going too far when they dictate a persons freedom to express themselves through appearance. That said there are some people who go way to far but you always have the people who overdo it. I'm talking about everyday people here. Oh and yes I have tried makeup and yes I like it too. I like a great deal of things that are traditionally considered feminine. I envy women because they have all the choices in the world open to them pertaining to hair, clothing, and things like makeup and accessories where guys have very very few.
bobbedguy
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: December 06 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 52
You see that is a perfect example of the "Hair double standard" and the freedom that women enjoy over men when it comes to appearance. The girls can grow their hair as long as they want but the guys have to stay with crew cuts. Why?
I did a year at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy before deciding that the military was not for me. The male swabs (first-year cadets) have their heads shaved almost to their scalp. The female swabs are forced to wear ear-length bobs.
After Swab Summer, the men can grow their hair /slightly/ longer. The women can grow theirs as long as they wish, but it must be worn "off the collar" using a maximum of three barrettes. No unnatural colors or "faddish" styles are allowed. And no facial hair.
Ally
bobbedguy
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: December 06 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 52
I hope that society starts viewing long hair on men as acceptable a lot sooner than 80 years from now. When this does happen I will let my just below ear length bobbed hair grow to just above my shoulders.
bobbedguy
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: December 06 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 52
I fully understand that U.S. companies are allowed to define their target market in whatever way they see fit, even if they don't "see" very clearly. :-)
It's interesting that the U.S. Supreme Court would uphold a company's right to require a long-haired male employee (note: already employed) to cut his hair short against his will or else be fired, and justify the claim that this does not constitute harassment. By the opposite token, women (in general, people specifically) are protected by this same court from being required to perform certain other non-consensual acts, so it puzzles me why the courts don't seem to apply a consistent standard for enforcing non-consensual, physical and psychologically effecting acts.
dianefromcanada
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Member
Joined: December 15 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 559
I have just remembered something that I read a couple of years ago that might be relevent to this debate. I read somewhere about a woman shop assistant in the 1920s who was sacked because she 'bobbed' her hair. This sounds similar to what we are talking about. Before the 1920s every woman had long hair. A woman with short hair was almost unheard of. Women cutting their hair short in the 20s (bobbing it) was viewed in the same way that some view men growing their hair today. This woman was sacked because she cut her long hair short yet today nobody batts an eyelid at seeing a woman with short hair. I would assume that if , in these two cases, if the men had not cut their hair short, one would have been sacked and the other wouldn't have got the job. I think the situation that these men found themselves in today is exactly the same as the situation that the woman I read about found herself in in the 20s. I wonder if, in 80 years time, long hair on men will be viewed in the same way as short hair on women is today with nobody thinking it strange or out of place.
I'm not saying the employer is /correct/ in identifying its target market this way. I'm saying it has the /right/ to do so.
The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld an employer's right to dictate hair lengths and dress codes--even if there is a disparity between the rules for each gender. As long as this disparity does not constitute harassment (as in mandating that all women will wear 17-inch skirts with heels), it is allowable. The military is a perfect example.
Ally
bobbedguy
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: December 06 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Reading through these posts it seems to me that maybe women are just angry and fearful when a guy with long hair walks in the door. They look at him an almost automatically think that he is invading the female territory when it comes to hair and they think that he should cut it. I say this because it seems that in the two cases mentioned, both bosses that forced the haircut were women. Well hair is a from of self expression and as long as it is neat why can't a guy have long hair? No one ever addressed my issue about a short short haired woman applying for a job. Do you think that the boss would force her to grow her hair longer or be kicked out the door? I seriously doubt it. And what about mid length hair on guys? Is that more acceptable? I am a guy and have my bobbed just below my ears with bangs. I love the style and I think that it looks great on me. I also work in a proffessional environment and nobody has said anything about a haircut. And yes I interact with customers almost everyday. I think that there is a HUGE double standard in the corporate world that needs to be addressed. Women with very short pixie cuts and crew cuts aren't forced to grow their hair out for a job to fit the "female image" better so why should a guy be forced to get a short cut to fit the "male image"?????
wolfgang
Members Profile
Send Private Message
Find Members Posts
Add to Buddy List
Junior Member
Joined: January 04 2001
Status: Offline
Points: 97
I think it is different if one thinks someone others has to look in a special way or if someone has the power to force it. A manager in a bank should be able to get more distance to his own sight of view. As you said the haircut of the man with long hair has only depend from her subjectiv opinion. I wonder that a woman with long hair, if she likes it, is not able to see that similar feelings can occur by a man respective his hair. I wouldn't like it to work with such a boss, I would be angry about her ignorant behaviour.
I work as a cashier in a bank. We ware a corperate uniform and have to be very smart. However, I can ware my hair (which is very long) anyway I please (up, down, braid etc) so long as it is well groomed. It is interesting what you said about this man having to have his hair cut. Not so long ago a man with quite long hair came to work at the bank. He was told, by the then manager of the bank, that he could keep it so long as he tied it back in a pony tail and kept it well groomed. However, there was a change of manager and the new one (a woman) made him cut his hair. This, I think, is double standards. On your point about these things being taught to us when we are very young, I agree. Nobody thinks twice about my having long hair, and people have said how smart I look in the uniform even when it is loose. However, I must say, when this man had long hair I didn't like it and always had a secret desire to creep up on him with a pair of scissors and cut it off! And I think he looks better with short hair. I think the problem is, people think I look smart with my long hair because women are 'supposed' to have long hair and so nobody really notices it. However, men are 'not supposed' to have long hair and so, when one does, people notice it and say how awful it looks. For a man to look smart he traditionally has to have short hair, long hair doesn't work. For a woman to look smart she can have long hair so long as it is well groomed. This is not what I think but what society, rightly or wrongly, insists on.
I totally agree that a person's appearance has nothing to do with whether they are professional or can do the job etc. It is interesting that it is perfectly acceptable for a woman with, say, waist length hair to work in a bank but it is not acceptable for a man with the same length hair. I am sure this has got to do with society's imprinting on us at an early age as to what is right and what is wrong. In the same way, I, personally do not like seeing long hair on men (this does not mean to say that I think they shouldn't have it!). Before his hair cut, I thought this man looked awful. Yet I do not think that women with long hair look awful (well, not all the time!). I am sure that this has to with when I was a child and I learned (by my interaction with people around me) that it was not acceptable for men to have long hair but it was for women. Therefore, I don't like seeing men with long hair as, subconsciously, I was brought up to believe that they souldn't have it (although, consciously I don't believe this). Likewise, I think most women look alright with long hair (including myself!) as I was brought up to believe that woamen are supposed to have long hair.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum