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Metal man View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 03 2003 at 1:02pm
People:

It looks like the ol'U.S.A. is goin to war with crazy Saddam over in Iraq.

Even if you don't dig George W. and his country club brats(I don't) remember the military personal ain't the president and his buddies.

Remember to support our men and women in the armed forces!
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2003 at 1:57pm
I support the righteous people whichever "side" they are on.

I support the innocent who will be slaughtered and those who will lose their loved ones.

I support those who will end their days in hunger and bitterness in their own homelands and on foreign soil.

My heart goes out to those who are not orphans now but will be at the hands of those who are "doing their duty" just as I stretch my love to those who are orphaned through acts of terror.

May God have mercy on us all in the long dark days ahead.
Uzi

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Metal man View Drop Down
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I had an uncle die in Vietnam fighting commnuists,and a grandad who fought the Nazis in World War II. My point was, even if you don't think it's the right war at the right time, don't blame it on the veteran, like they did after Vietnam. The military men and women are common people and brave people and they suffer so others don't have to be ruled by totalitarian creeps like Nazis, Communists, and Religious fanatics that don't allow democracy and human rights.

Never taker freedom for granted, too many people have died and suffered for it.

You really truly want the end of war? Get rid of dictatorships!
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Christina View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Christina Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2003 at 8:03pm
You are right Metal Man. It is about brutal dictatorships.

Have you ever heard of a democracy invading another democracy? Has the U.S. or Britian in the past 100 years ever fought a war with democracies like Canada, Australia, or for that matter Jamaica, Ghana, or modern day(since World War II) democratic Germany, Japan, or mostly muslim Turkey? Of course not!

Sure Iraq has oil and the whole world runs on oil and other valueable resources. But it's not just about oil as the airhead protestors say.

Democracies also have oil.
Mexico has oil. North sea oil owned by Britian and Norway. Venezuela has oil and more moderate dictatorships in the Middle East have oil. Do we war with them? Of course not.
WE TRADE WITH THEM, TO BOTH OF OUR MUTUAL BENEFIT!

Iraq and the terrorists are different. They are like the World War II Nazis and Fascists, they don't believe in democracy. Their people don't have the rights that people in democracies have. And they will kill masses of innocent people if we don't stop them.

My husband is a military vet, and a great guy. America and Britian, and our veterans, aren't the problem. We have saved the world from being run by totalitarian thugs. All the thugs you mentioned Metal man.
Time and again we fought the brutal thug dictators.The whole world would be run by brutal dictatorships if it wasn't for us. The totalitarians would have won.


There would be no human rights or womens rights or minorirty rights or right to vote anywhere, if not for the U.S., Britian and our allies.

I'm in my early 50s. I've seen the foolish, naive protestors and the America and British haters for years. They are usually spoiled little brats from the upper classes. They have a right to protest and we have a right to ignore them and support our brave military in their war against totalitarianism.

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Lady Maria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 04 2003 at 11:15am
Let's hope there isn't a war in Iraq.
I only wish Saddam Hussein would fully co-operate with the U.N. inspectors.
I read an article by Condelezza Rice on how the Ukraine and South Africa got rid of their weapons of mass destruction and co-operated with the U.N. inspectors and how Iraq is not doing what those countries did.

War may be inevitable, and it's really such a shame. Let's just hope if the war does happen that the war is short with a minimum of death on both sides.
Let's then hope that a decent democratic government is installed in Iraq.

I pray not only for our soliders but for the innocent civilians of Iraq. They deserve someone better as their leader than Saddam.


I still am hoping the war doesn't happen that another solution is found.
Lady Maria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingrid16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2003 at 8:46am
Please, please God let there be no war...
My brother is over there right now in Kuwait (he's in air defense, Army), and I'm really scared that he'll have to go into action. He's scared too, but he puts on a brave front and says that he's ready to stand by whatever postion that the US decides on.
However, I think it's important to stand by the decisions of our government, even if we don't fully agree...or at the least we should disagree constructively. None of this crap about 'baby-killers' and America being an 'evil empire'...we are not doing our best as a nation, but sometimes war is the only choice...I don't know if that applies here, but I'd be willing to risk it if the alternative is terrorism and nuclear threat.
My dad was in Vietnam and we treated like dirt for risking his life over there, and it seems to me that the lack of support at home was one of the things that ruined our military strength then. Please, everyone, don't take it out on the troops. Right now they need us. If we go to war, then turning on our own people will not help anyone. If we go to war, then let's win! If people are so down on the US and think that its such an evil place that commits such evil actions, the GO SOMEWHERE ELSE! This isn't a totalitarian state, this isn't the USSR, if you don't like it here you can always leave.
Sorry, this whole thing upsets me. Believe me, I'd rather see the whole thing called off and have my brother back in the US and safe.

Inga

PS; Oh, yeah, isn't this supposed to be a HAIR talk forum? Not that I should talk.
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Metal man View Drop Down
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Ingrid------
Little sis I agree with everything you said, also what Cristina said. You ladies are right on. We need to do it right and win the war if we have to do it. And respect our military people. That's for sure!

Your brother is a true brother to all Americans and all who love freedom and human rights Ingrid. Let's hope for the best .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingrid16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2003 at 2:00am
Thanx Metal Man (my brother thanks you too :))

I apologize for my outburst in my previous post- I sound kinda like a warmongerer. Truth be told, violence of any kind scares me, and as much as I support the US and our troops, I'm also praying for the people of Iraq and other nations that are involved in one conflict or another...so much death and sadness for the sake of politics and money. I've not naive enough to think that 'everyone can just get along'...thousands of years of human history and that's NEVER happened. But its almost never worth the price paid in destroyed lives, be it soldiers or innocents.
God, war is a horrible thing.......
If I had wings then I could take you in
I'd stay on the ground and show you some things
The grass is strewn with blades of gold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LiliBeach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2003 at 6:44pm
OK, my turn to vent,

We do need to stop a madman (Saddam) before he goes too far with his weapons. If we and the world allows him to continue building his weapons, 911 will look like a walk in the park.

Listening to 20/20 on Friday March 14 about the POW"S from the gulf war should be proof enough for any anti-war protesters on how evil this man is.
(Go to abcnews.com for the program)

I DO NOT want to go to war, but sometimes we have to before we lose any more lives in this country to terrorism.

I cheered and honked my horn the other day to a passing convoy of Marines from my hometown heading to the dessert. I beleive they all need our cheers, because they are going there for us.

God Bless Them ALL!!!!!!!!!
I am a professional Hairstylist/Haircolorist with 19 years experience. I have traveled all over the country for my advanced education. I am also a salon owner.:)........and I LOVE Redken!!!
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Lady Maria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2003 at 7:06pm
I don't want war either but I agree, we need to support our troops!
Lady Maria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sophie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2003 at 8:51pm
God Bless.....It has begun, they just shot cruse missles into Bagdad......................OMG
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Kintaro View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kintaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 8:32am
And the soldiers have "supercool" buzzcuts.


To bring it back to the Hair forum aspect......

Some army rules like the US, I don't know their exact rule on hair, but I know Canada has a cop-out rule for long hair, but only for native peoples (which I don't have, the rule is 3 generations, i have no link).

Not that it's the only reason I wouldn't go in the armed forces (lack of a practice with multiple firearms, and other forms of combat, the fact that the canadian military is an oxymoron in itself (like Japan's SDF) and that we have our boats and subs sink without a single shot fired.) , but it sure is one of them :P
I hate all of the following and lots more : Fundamentalists, racists, sexists, fascists, ageists (people saying seniors = senile , kids = stupid , 18 = immature or a combo of them), and bigots for causes yet to receive their own designation.
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 1:28pm
OK - my turn to vent (and I accept that this mail will probably be deleted, but if only one person reads it, that will be worth it).

I cannot support the position of the military in this conflict anymore.

Here in the UK, these men and women - many of them boys and girls just out of their teens - have allowed themselves to be used as instruments of murder.
They have explictly expressed their commitment to actively participate the state-sanctioned massacre of people who aren't doing anything wrong. Massacre of one body of innocents by another body of innocents.
The individuals that make up the military do not represent the force of goodness and righteousness. They represent the suspension of individual conscience. They represent the death of democracy, free will and honour - and the rise of propoganda, the new world order, hypocrisy and aggression. Every one of them is accountable for their actions.
There are moves afoot to bring the main protagonists (Bush & Blair & the Spanish leader) to answer for their actions at an international war crimes tribunal. What will our boys and girls do then? Will they say, like the nazi luftwaffe when they stood on trial for war crimes, that they were just doing their jobs?
Not good enough.

I hope there are minimal deaths on both sides. I do not believe that if the mighty US, who sends people into space, could not assasinate one dictator (Saddam) and one terrorist (Osama). I don't know the hidden agenda but there does appear to be a schedule of targets that Bush read out on September 12th 2001.
I wonder how our "leaders" will justify ripping the world apart. Whose next, I forget...Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia?
How will you defend this position? Will you still support the military boys and girls when they have the innocent blood of thousands on their hands?

Those hands will be OUR hands.

May God have mercy on us all.
Uzi

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 3:18pm
The military personel of the U.S. and the U.K are hardly innocents. They are professionally trained soliders, a volunteer army. Virtually all of them are in their 20s and 30s. They are grown men and women and they know exactly what they are doing and why they are fighting.

The U.S. and Britian defeated the Nazis. Then we defeated the brutal Communist dictatorships. As a result Europe(East and West Europe) and Latin America,(where my ancestors came from), have freedom and democracy today. For the first time ever, all of the people on those continents can vote and there is some semblence of human rights and womens rights.

We will also defeat the brutal dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. He killed 200,000 Kurds and used poison gas on them and attempted to genocide them. Saddam and his friends stole billions of dollars from the Iraqi people which they now have in Swiss bank accounts. They stole this money from the "oil for humanitarian aid program". The rest of the money went into the Iraqi military, therefore causing even more harm to the Iraqi people.

There has always been war. As an adult I know this.
Only a childish fool is a complete pacifist. No one likes war but the Iraqi , and for that matter Iranian people,(who have protested by the millions against their brutal dictatorship, time and again) who live under brutal dictatorships crave and want democracy and we will bring it to them.
And yes eventually more Muslim countries will have democracy and human and womens rights. And the ignorant protestors in western countries(mostly from spoiled wealthy families) can protest all they want, but they can't stop the spread of democracy, a modern economy and human rights. In the short run, of course war is tragic, but just like the wars againgst Nazism and Communism, in the long run democracy will win, and the Arab people will be much, much, better off in the long run under democracy.
And if it were just about oil, why aren't we, as others on this thread have pointed out, invading other oil producing countries?

It is about stopping terrorists and dictators who have hijacked the Muslim world. Freedom and democracy will come to the Muslim world eventually.

Let us hope and pray that the war is short and that very few people die on either side.

Long live democracy and freedom! May our troops remain safe!
Lady Maria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 3:31pm
And no Usma, democracies that fight dictatorships are not war criminals, and we will win this war against Saddam.
If there are any war trials it will be against the Iraqi leadership for the attempted genocide of the Kurds.
Lady Maria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kintaro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 6:38pm
Terrorism is terrorism even when we do the shooting, regardless of cause or plan.

It's the burden they must carry, no divinity is going to push them harder because of it.

I hope for minimal casualties too, Saddam, his lieuts, possibly a few others, but please, bomb that building that looks like a ****** they were showing on CNN.


Back to Hair politics : Regardless if your hair preference is short or long, Saddam is fugly. Pure and simple.
I hate all of the following and lots more : Fundamentalists, racists, sexists, fascists, ageists (people saying seniors = senile , kids = stupid , 18 = immature or a combo of them), and bigots for causes yet to receive their own designation.
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uzma View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 6:41pm
I call the military personnel innocents because by virtue of being pawns of the government they are not engaging their individual brains. This is termed neotony a condition of voluntary, child-like brainwashing and suspension of the personal conscience i.e. the personal discrimination between right and wrong. I have heard the words of war veterns from WW2. There were many who came out wearing their medals with pride last month during the Anti-War march. And they were carrying banners saying Not in Our Name. These men were interviewed on TV and expressed their total opposition to what they called an unjustified and immoral war.
And do the US/K soldiers truly know what they are doing and why they are fighting truly know the agenda of our so-called leaders? We have heard the US say that they will bring democracy to Iraq. If that is anything like the democracy the US brought to Afganistan, it will be replacing a dictator with a puppet whose strings are pulled by the US. You cannot import the Western development and political model into the Muslim world. It doesnt fit. The only thing the US will achieve and this is to their own advantage is neo-colonialism. Wake up.

As for WW2 yes the Allied Forces (UK & US plus others) defeated the nazis. But lets not confuse the leaders of the past with the leaders of the present. And lets not confuse the Western societies of the 1930s & 40s who did not live in gangland, drug culture, etc but had a sense of morality, honour and integrity. Sadly lacking in these materialistic and self-serving times.
With due respect, if your origins are Latin, than you know about the impact of US foreign policy in Nicaragua & Cuba. Oh and what about the freedom and democracy in Brazil and Argentina. What about the abject poverty and soaring wealth. What about the death squads. What about the disappeared. Social problems perpetuated and supported by so-called democracy.
It is nave to think that human rights abuses do not occur under democracies. They are covered up or are taken abroad. I guess this may seem like a totally crazy statement to you, but justice, peace and womens rights existed before the version of democracy you have placed on a pedestal. Wake up.

What has hurt the Iraqui people has been the collusion of the US/K in supporting Saddam for decades. He is playing games. He was taught well be his US/K masters. Now he is an easy target. His people have been brutalised by his western supported regime. We sold him the chemical & biological weapons, because he was keeping the middle-east in a state of chaos via the Iran-Iraq war. That was really good for our countries. It distracted everone from the Palestinian death-count and nicely started the demonization of Islam process for us.
I dont think the US/K want Iraqi oil. They want ALL the oil. They want it under their control and they want the people of the regions possessing oil to become like the neotonized military. Wake up.

The Iraqi people want peace. They want to be able to live in security. They do not want to be invaded by us. SH spends aid money on palaces while his people starve. We let him do this because it suited us. We let the Palestinian situation continue because this too is in our interests.
What will we bring the Iraqis? Our forces will open Iraq and then go for the next country on their list. What we are offering these people is trade. We trade your dictator for our subtle, hypocritical dictatorship. We hope you are too stuffed with food, clothes, and the other goodies we will tempt you with, to notice. Wake up.

The US/K have declared themselves because of their economic and military power as having the right to impose their agenda on the world. Anti-War protestors in the UK and all over the world are far from ignorant. The ignorant ones are those who believe the lies without looking deeper without thinking.
The argument you used, the spread of democracy was used two centuries ago by the colonialist. They said they were spreading civilization. And the inquisition they were spreading Christianity. And the slave-traders? they didnt bother with a justification, they just knew that Might was Right. Wake up.

Democracies are here to represent (a) the will of the electorate (b) the best interests of the state.
(a) is being ignored. Democracy is a casualty of this war, along with truth.
(b) is being implemented in the most malicious manner.

Finally, I am not a pacifict. I will fight for justice and peace. I have lived through two wars and know how that feels. I am now in a democract country that is acting like the agressive terrorists it hates.
The US/K are rebelling against the United Nations which was set up after WW2 to prevent another world war. They have undermined its authority as much as Saddam has.

Lets not pretend that we are the "good guys" - we are not fooling anyone in the world - not the governments and not the populations, except those who are too scared or dependant on trade/aid to oppose us (and of course, some of our own sleeping populations).
Uzi

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Lady Maria View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 10:27pm
Saying that Arabs or Muslims can't adjust to democracy is very, very racist. Turkey is a Muslim country that has been a democracy for years. Democracy isn't just a "western" value.
Hindu India is a democracy. Buddhist Japan is a democracy.
The fact is Arabs can, and will ,adjust to democracy. Arab-Americans are very, emphatically behind the war effort to rid the Mideast of dictatorships. So are most WWII and Vietnam war veterans regardless of what a few leftist radicals may say. And you don't see massive demonstartions in the new democracies of Eastern Europe. They are grateful that America and Britian helped free them from Communism. So are their leaders who are backing Bysh and Blair. They are not spoiled like the kids from the upper classes in the western world.

Democracy in the long run will win out over dictatorships of any sort, it is human nature, not just "western", to want freedom.

The liberal-radicals in the U.S. when I was a kid used to say that Latin America could never be democratic, that the U.S. shouldn't import "our values" to Latin America. As a Latina woman I always considered the liberals to be extremely racist and condescending to Latinos just as you are very condescending to your fellow Muslims Uzma. You sell them short. You would deny them the freedom you enjoy in Britian.

Today every country in Latin America has free democratic elections and Amnesty International has stated that in countries as diverse as Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and Mexico, human rights have increased compared to life under the dictators. Same with Eastern European countries like Poland, the Czech Republic and Romania.

I hate to tell you this Uzma but you are very wrong. I don't need to wake up, you do. Democracy and human rights has the upper hand in wartime and peacetime. We will win this war against Saddam.

Mark my words on this one. If you and I live another 30 years, which I hope we do, you will see more, not less, of a push for democracy and a western standard of living in the Muslim world. Radical Islamic fundamentalism won't win, the moderate Muslims and democracy will, because the craving for freedom isn't just "western" it is human nature.
Lady Maria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 10:42pm
And yes, countries are dependent on us economically, as we are them. It is interdependence.
The life expectancy in Latin America in 1950 was 40 years. Today it is 65 years on average. The "terrible" Americans and our"colonialism", our economic system and our science and medical science, has increased life expectancy by 25 years there.
If you don't believe me check the stats.

Golbalization and the spread of modern economics and democracy isn't just benefiting the West. Every rational person wants it. Everyone wants what the U.S. and Britian have, that's why they want to move to our countries or have what we have in their countries.
I don't feel sorry for you Uzma even if you have lived through a war. My respect goes to those who support our military and modernization and women's rights., and they are not "brainwashed".

I have a male cousin who is in the military and his political and human rights positions are much better thought out than yours are. He is very intelligent and articulate, hardly anyone's "puppet" or dupe. He is brave and has good values as most Americans do . Contrary to the myth, most of us aren't criminals, drug addicts or prostitutes, we are good people. I hope you can visit the U.S. some day Uzma. There are many nice people here.
Lady Maria
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2003 at 11:45pm
Kintaro, you are a funny young guy. You are only 18, you are still a young pup!

I'm glad you are growing out your hair Kintaro. Long haired guys are sexy! What do the young ladies think of you and your longer hair? Do you have a steady lady right now?
Lady Maria
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