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How I see a few things in the great long hair debate

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Zorak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:02pm
> since all of us, (and I think perhaps most often those> of us with very long hair), have in the dark recesses of> our hair history some defining moment when our hair> choices were solidified because we were coerced...or> otherwise convinced to do something with our hair that> was against our own wishesYou mean like when you were a kid and your mommy and daddy made you get a despised "boy's haircut" for the summer???Gosh, Dawn....you make it sound a little like the "short hair demons" are gonna get you if you peek under the bed at night! BOO!> for some of us, our little hair epiphany came many, many> years agoYikes! Now having long flowing hair is like seeing god and the truth all at once?!?> To me, the wishy washy, maybe I will, maybe I won't,> who knows what I might do statements you profer as> preferrable to a staunt, confident NEVER, are the very> essence of insecurity, not the other way around.I disagree. To me, statements like "NEVER" [note the emphasis on YOUR capitals in all of your posts] sound a lot like "whistling past the graveyard"; it is just repeated over and over to rationalize your belief that you have made the correct choice, or to comfort you to feel that everything is OK.> The definition of insecure is "not confident, filled> with anxieties, not firm or dependable,> unreliable" so how can someone who has held firm> to a goal, a passion, an ideal for more than two> decades ever be considered insecure?Most neurotics [note this is purpose of argument only, I am NOT calling anyone here a neurotic], or other people afflicted with syndromes characterized by incessent worrying or insecurity, keep to the same old patterns of behavior for decades. In fact, this can often be one of the defining syptoms of a neurosis, when taken in the context of other symptoms!> You're confused and mistaken about the depth of character> it takes to sustain such reliable, dependable convictions,> I think.You don't have to be a saint or Nelson Mandella to grow long hair for decades. C'mon Dawn!> Twenty three years is a long time to nurture something...Agreed. But, there is always a time to let go of something, too.> {I} would NEVER relinquish it of {my} own choosing,> for example, like you did.NEVER say NEVER! :-) You don't know with any certainty what may happen to change your mind tomorrow or a year from now.> Well then, and I am LOATHE to admit this, but I have> to say that I agree with ZorakGee, I am that unpopular around here? :-)Z.
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Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:02pm
Dawn said: "since all of us, (and I think perhaps most often those of us with very long hair), have in the dark recesses of our hair history some defining moment when our hair choices were solidified because we were coerced...or otherwise convinced to do something with our hair that was against our own wishes"Your reply was:> You mean like when you were a kid and your mommy and> daddy made you get a despised "boy's> haircut" for the summer???>> Gosh, Dawn....you make it sound a little like the> "short hair demons" are gonna get you if you> peek under the bed at night! BOO!Who but Dawn knows at this point what her defining moment was? Perhaps it was a matter of her being coerced into an unwanted haircut. If that's the case, then why do you make light of an act of coercion? Do you think it appropriate to mock and ridicule someone for having been previously victimized?Dawn said: "for some of us, our little hair epiphany came many, many years ago"Your reply:> Yikes! Now having long flowing hair is like seeing god> and the truth all at once?!?Yes it is. Didn't you know? ;-) [I'm teasing you Zorak] You know what she means...Dawn said: "To me, the wishy washy, maybe I will, maybe I won't, who knows what I might do statements you proffer as preferrable to a staunt, confident NEVER, are the very essence of insecurity, not the other way around."Your reply:> I disagree. To me, statements like "NEVER"> [note the emphasis on YOUR capitals in all of your> posts] sound a lot like "whistling past the> graveyard"; it is just repeated over and over to> rationalize your belief that you have made the correct> choice, or to comfort you to feel that everything is> OK.But Dawn *has* made her choice, and made the one that she feels is correct for her. And I agree with her that firmly and honestly stating that I will "NEVER" do something is a sign of security because it indicates firm resolve.> Most neurotics [note this is purpose of argument only,> I am NOT calling anyone here a neurotic], or other> people afflicted with syndromes characterized by> incessent worrying or insecurity, keep to the same old> patterns of behavior for decades. In fact, this can> often be one of the defining syptoms of a neurosis,> when taken in the context of other symptoms!The key words which nullify the significance of the above paragraph are "...when taken in the context of other symptoms." If you really believe your paragraph has a bearing on the discussion, it seems to me an argument could be made that a diagnosis of neurosis could apply in the other direction as well.Dawn said: "You're confused and mistaken about the depth of character it takes to sustain such reliable, dependable convictions, I think."Your reply:> You don't have to be a saint or Nelson Mandella to> grow long hair for decades. C'mon Dawn!But someone who has very long hair has clearly demonstrated a conviction to allow it to do so. If a person were frequently or occasionally indecisive about their hair, and periodically acted upon their indecision, they would not possess very long hair.Dawn said: "Twenty three years is a long time to nurture something..."Your reply:> Agreed. But, there is always a time to let go of> something, too.Dawn's statement was a general statement. I suspect you inferred she was talking only about her hair, but who knows, perhaps she was talking about her marriage as well or instead? Some people do adhere to their commitment to their original spouses until death (forever), since they have made a vow, a promise, to do so at their wedding.I'm not asking for feedback, but I wonder how you reconcilecertain marital issues with many of the opinions you have expressed here.Dave
David M Squires
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Diane from Canada View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diane from Canada Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:02pm
>>Dear Zorak or whomever you decide to call yourself these days. I have to say you are being very cruel to Dawn. I might be wrong but to me it is really starting to look like you are totally obsessed over Dawn for whatever reason.Why is it so important to you that she agrees with you about changing or never to say never? Does she affect your life?Does her personal goals affect yours in life?Just because this is the internet there is a real person typing those post. Someone will real feeling and it can really hurt.I would suggest that you say sorry to Dawn.Diane from Canada>
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Zorak View Drop Down
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> I have to say you are being very cruel to> Dawn. I might be wrong but to me it is really starting> to look like you are totally obsessed over Dawn for> whatever reason.Whatever. By the same token, YOU are totally obsessed with ME. So there. :-(Look: someone posts something I disagree with, I post back. I don't treat any individual with malice or cruelty, I post in reply to what I disagree with (although sometimes I do generate posts of my own orignation).I have in no way treated anyone with "cruelty", nor have I singled anyone out on this board.I object to your characterization of my postings. Period.> Why is it so important to you that she agrees with you> about changing or never to say never? Does she affect> your life?Why is it important to YOU to attack/disagree with ME?? Why is it important for ANYONE on this silly board to post AT ALL???Yes, these are rhetorical questions, designed to get you to realize that we ALL post in repsonse to things that we disagree with.> Does her personal goals affect yours in life?Do anyone goals on this board affect anyone else's life at all?? Why does anyone post here at all?? Why is it so important to you to jump into this discussion?> Just because this is the internet there is a real> person typing those post. Someone will real feeling> and it can really hurt.In no way have I attacked or done any other thing that will "hurt" someone's feelings. It has been a long time since I used words like "boring"...I realized then that I was wrong and I apologized. Since then I have been very aware not to use inflamatory language.But, if you suggest that I apologize for being in the minority and having an opinion that differs from most here, then I do not apologize.If Dawn got here feelings hurt, then I will just have to say that I did not mean to offend; but, this is a discussion group where different opinions will be aired. If someone disagrees with you, don't get hurt, post a reply!Z.
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Zorak View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zorak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:02pm
> Who but Dawn knows at this point what her defining> moment was? Perhaps it was a matter of her being> coerced into an unwanted haircut. If that's the case,> then why do you make light of an act of coercion?To let a single act of coersion that happened in the distant past define the totality of some aspect of your persoanlity seems, IMO, to be exceedingly limiting.> ...I agree with her that firmly and honestly stating that> I will "NEVER" do something is a sign of security> because it indicates firm resolve.Nyet. It might be more correct to say "At this point in my life I cannot see myself doing anything like that", but, for one to say that they will NEVER do something denies the unknowability of the future and the need for contingency in making decisions.> The key words which nullify the significance of the> above paragraph are "...when taken in the context> of other symptoms." ...it seems to me an argument could> be made that a diagnosis of neurosis could apply in the> other direction as well.Of course it could, but I did not claim that anyone had a neurosis of any kind.Look back. Dawn claimed that the act of sticking to a pattern of behavior was a singular factor in deciding the issue of "character". I merely disproved her thesis by pointing out the existance of a single negating instance. That is all that I said.> Dawn said: "You're confused and mistaken about> the depth of character it takes to sustain such> reliable, dependable convictions, I think."> But someone who has very long hair has clearly> demonstrated a conviction to allow it to do so. If a> person were frequently or occasionally indecisive> about their hair, and periodically acted upon their> indecision, they would not possess very long hair.That is not the point being debated. In the original post, Dawn asserted that a person's decision to stick to a pattern of behavior was a singualr determinant of that person's "character". All I did was disprove that statement by showing there is at least one instance where it fails.> Dawn said: "Twenty three years is a long time to> nurture something..."> Dawn's statement was a general statement. I suspect> you inferred she was talking only about her hair but> who knows, perhaps she was talking about her marriage> as well or instead? Some people do adhere to their> commitment to their original spouses until death> (forever), since they have made a vow, a promise, to> do so at their wedding. I'm not asking for feedback, but> I wonder how you reconcile certain marital issues with> many of the opinions you have expressed here.Hey, I am comitted to my wife today, and I plan to stay married to her until one of us dies. BUT, I don't ever say "NEVER" because nobody knows what tomorrow may bring. I am in no way implying that I am a loose-living scroundrel who messes around at all. In fact, I am very steadfast in my commitment to her. BUT, in an abstract way, I know that the future is a mystery, so I recognize that to say NEVER is just silly. It denies the nature of life.Z.
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Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2000 at 9:02pm
> To let a single act of coersion that happened in the> distant past define the totality of some aspect of> your persoanlity seems, IMO, to be exceedingly> limiting.But to say this is to deny the reality of how our personalities are formed. All experiences, both good and bad, define (in part) who we become.> Hey, I am comitted to my wife today, and I plan to> stay married to her until one of us dies. BUT, I don't> ever say "NEVER" because nobody knows what> tomorrow may bring. I am in no way implying that I am> a loose-living scroundrel who messes around at all. In> fact, I am very steadfast in my commitment to her.Neither was I intending to imply such description applied to you. Might you possibly concede that perhaps Dawn views her commitment (to that which she values) similarly to the way in which you are "steadfast in your commitment" to your wife?This has been one of the points I have been trying to express to you all along. I absolutely cannot speak as Dawn's representatitve and I don't pretend to do so, but I see her possessing a "steadfast commitment" to the many things that she values.Your trying to dissuade her from the possession of the depth of her "steadfast commitments" might be seen as tantamount to someone questioning your commitment to that which you value (such as your marriage).Dave
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> Whatever. By the same token, YOU are totally obsessed> with ME. So there. :-(In your dreams or nightmare only. Good one there. Very rich . lol ( diane) I see you change your name again lol You keep doing this for me .Gee I am flattered lol> Look: someone posts something I disagree with, I post> back. I don't treat any individual with malice or> cruelty, I post in reply to what I disagree with> (although sometimes I do generate posts of my own> orignation).Sometimes you tend grind until you feel you get somewhere. ( Diane)> I have in no way treated anyone with> "cruelty", nor have I singled anyone out on> this board.no commment ( Diane)> I object to your characterization of my postings.> Period.no comment( Diane)> Why is it important to YOU to attack/disagree with> ME?? Why is it important for ANYONE on this silly> board to post AT ALL???I rarely disagree with you unless I see you grinding someone. I have agreed with you many times. It is important for some people to post on this board because we have a need as human beings to express ourselves and it is a hair web site. ( diane)> Yes, these are rhetorical questions, designed to get> you to realize that we ALL post in repsonse to things> that we disagree with.Zorak we also have to agree to disagree at times and let it go. diane> Do anyone goals on this board affect anyone else's> life at all?? Why does anyone post here at all?? Why> is it so important to you to jump into this> discussion?It is important for me to jump into this discussion because it is very much my nature to be a peace keeper and yes I have sliped on a banana peel at times and said sorry. It is very much my nature to be protective of people who I feel are being attack. I tend to be a mother hen at times . I am trying very hard to reach you in your heart . I would love to see a post that explain your passion about hair etc. That would be very nice. I am not against you Zorak. I actually like you. I am sorry that I hurt your feelings really.diane>> But, if you suggest that I apologize for being in the> minority and having an opinion that differs from most> here, then I do not apologize.No I am not asking you to apologize for having your opinions . I am saying you were very rough. I am trying to be your friend and let you know. I would tell you by email but you said no email. diane> diane from canada
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