Banishing Bad Hair Days since 1997!™
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Would You Accept A Job If You Had To Change Your Hair Or Appearance?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Would You Accept A Job If You Had To Change Your Hair Or Appearance?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Rod View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: April 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 690
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2003 at 2:29pm
If you show up for a job interview dirty, unshaven, ungroomed in your underwear, should the interviewer take that into account? Didn't how your significant other looks impact your attraction? We're all here on a hair board, so appearance has to be important to you.

When you work in retail or sales or any job that deals with the public (lawyer, doctor) how you appear impacts your impression on your clients/customers. If we all decided we were going to make judgements based on appearance, the world would be a better place. But it's not the world we live in. Attractive, well-dressed, polite people sell better than unattractive, poorly dressed, rude people. So, who should the boss hire? If the boss thinks that you could sell more product if your hair was a certain way, shouldn't he want that? The receptionist needs to be someone who is welcoming to his clients.

In jobs where you don't deal with the public, the boss shouldn't have a say in hair recommendations, but most people would agree he has the right to say no shorts or sandals. Is that very different?

I know a lot of men who are computer programmers. Two of them have hair below their shoulders. In that profession, long hair actually gives a better impression. Techies are off-beat. They go against the norm.
Back to Top
duke View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 11 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 603
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2003 at 6:48am
Well, Vineman and Rob show opposite ways
of looking at the situation and it's interesting.
This is how I see it: generally, if you don't
work with clients but are in a closed office, it shouldn't matter one bit how you dress, as
long as you are not distracting people. Thus, if I
ever become an average employer, I will allow
my office employees to wear a chicken suit to
work if it doesn't deconcentrate the others
too much. As for workers who are with clients,
there might be a stricter dress code (in some
industries at least no real potentially gross
things like body art) but I'd try to keep it as
lenient as possible and would certainly not
regulate hair length. If dress codes are ever
necessary, they are then in an average place
a necessary evil.

Bratty, are you there? Whatever happened
with your boyfriend?
Back to Top
Vineman View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: August 29 2003
Location: Depends
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vineman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 06 2003 at 7:36pm
Quote If we all decided we were going to make judgements based on appearance, the world would be a better place. But it's not the world we live in. Attractive, well-dressed, polite people sell better than unattractive, poorly dressed, rude people. So, who should the boss hire? If the boss thinks that you could sell more product if your hair was a certain way, shouldn't he want that? The receptionist needs to be someone who is welcoming to his clients.


That's disgusting, you're saying that unattractive, poorly dressed people are generally rude. You're encouraging this rape of personality. You're looking at it from a business point of view, what should the Boss do to get profit, you're not saying anything about actual personal rights at all. You're just encouraging the greed that lies in the black hearts of so many employers on this dirty planet.

I hate when people talk about "Welcome to the real world, you have to make sacrifices for money"it's so stupid. WHY? Why make money if it's not making you happy! You don't HAVE to have a family, you don't HAVE to be the same.

It just goes the show what the world has come to. Progress... People work to run the world... but if everyones working, whos in the world to appreciate it?

Pathetic.
This is my signature. It's not a very
good signature, but it's a signature
nonetheless.
Back to Top
Rod View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: April 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 690
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2003 at 12:21am
Originally posted by Vineman Vineman wrote:


That's disgusting, you're saying that unattractive, poorly dressed people are generally rude. You're encouraging this rape of personality. You're looking at it from a business point of view, what should the Boss do to get profit, you're not saying anything about actual personal rights at all. You're just encouraging the greed that lies in the black hearts of so many employers on this dirty planet.

I hate when people talk about "Welcome to the real world, you have to make sacrifices for money"it's so stupid. WHY? Why make money if it's not making you happy! You don't HAVE to have a family, you don't HAVE to be the same.

It just goes the show what the world has come to. Progress... People work to run the world... but if everyones working, whos in the world to appreciate it?

Pathetic.


You've misread my post. I never said unattractive people are rude, only that if a person is unattractive or poorly dressed or rude, they won't get hired.

What personal rights are you talking about? Should a boss give you money because you want it? It's his money. He has the say. Start your own company and let the people come in whenever they want wearing bathrobes. Either make your own rules or you live by someone's else's rules. If you don't have to make sacrifices for money, how do you eat? Pay the rent? Does someone support you? All of us aren't as lucky.

You don't have to have a family, but for most of us, the family makes us happy? So, we're willing to make sacrifices for them.

The world is a far better place than it used to be. Freedom is at a premium. If you look through history, the choices you want to make couldn't have been made. People worked much longer hours and their employers, or feudal lords, ruled those lives.
Back to Top
Vineman View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: August 29 2003
Location: Depends
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vineman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2003 at 8:36am
Quote hat personal rights are you talking about? Should a boss give you money because you want it? It's his money.


That's very... capitalist. You should get money because you're just as fit as the next person to do it who doesn't have purple hair.
Like, what if some boss said "I don't like the look of that black guy... he looks kinda shady" that wouldn't be very fair would it?
I only hope you are victim to prejudice some day so you'll understand, then again if you have I'm pretty sure you didn't have the "balls" to stand up for yourself.

Quote he world is a far better place than it used to be.


Don't you see? It's better because people like me stood up for themselves and others and said "Hold on, that's not right". So why are you criticising further progress? very hypocritical.

Also, the point is that the world needs people like me, if the world was filled with Rods (no offence) nobody would stand up for their rights and there would be no real progress. The world needs different types of people to work and evolve.
This is my signature. It's not a very
good signature, but it's a signature
nonetheless.
Back to Top
Rod View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: April 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 690
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2003 at 10:42am
Originally posted by Vineman Vineman wrote:


That's very... capitalist. You should get money because you're just as fit as the next person to do it who doesn't have purple hair.
Like, what if some boss said "I don't like the look of that black guy... he looks kinda shady" that wouldn't be very fair would it?
I only hope you are victim to prejudice some day so you'll understand, then again if you have I'm pretty sure you didn't have the "balls" to stand up for yourself.


You've chosen to bolster your argument by insulting my character. Considering you've never met me, I'm blown away by this. Character insults are a sure sign your argument is weak.

My arguments are capitalist. We live in a country that has a capitalist system. If you don't try to earn money you can't eat or pay the rent. I don't know how you earn money, but if you do so without making any compromises for your clients, co-workers, boss, spouse, or children, you're in the minority. Most of us that live in this society, are a part of this society.

There's a huge difference between being black and having purple hair or wearing a bath robe to work or smelling like feces.

I've suffered through quite a bit of prejudice in my life and stand up to it just fine. Thanks for the insult though.

Quote on't you see? It's better because people like me stood up for themselves and others and said "Hold on, that's not right". So why are you criticising further progress? very hypocritical.

Also, the point is that the world needs people like me, if the world was filled with Rods (no offence) nobody would stand up for their rights and there would be no real progress. The world needs different types of people to work and evolve.


It's people like me that do that change things in this world, not people who just complain. Martin Luther King wasn't posting on Internet boards. He was doing something. Karl Marx, on the other hand, wrote about how terrible Capitalist society was and how the constraints society put on people were wrong. Several of his children died of starvation because he refused to participate in society.
Back to Top
Vineman View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: August 29 2003
Location: Depends
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vineman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2003 at 7:42pm
Yes that personal comment was uncalled for I'm sorry but there's an almost insulting tone to the way you say certain things, I can't help feeling like you're talking down to me. You could accuse me of that, but in reality I'm not talking in any particular direction, just shouting out.

"Smelling like Feces" you're still making it seem as if Purple hair is a bad thing

Anyway, throwing focus on things like that is also often a sign of a weak argument, declaring an argument to be SURELY weak shows you're jumping at the chance.

Quote
It's people like me that do that change things in this world, not people who just complain. Martin Luther King wasn't posting on Internet boards. He was doing something. Karl Marx, on the other hand, wrote about how terrible Capitalist society was and how the constraints society put on people were wrong. Several of his children died of starvation because he refused to participate in society.


Sadly, in our world people do have to suffer to make a point, just as you say people have to suffer to make money.
Ideals can be worth nothing or everything. I'd say the ideal of personal freedom is one worth dying for.
I AM probably going to be a "techie", I'll most likely get to wear my hair long, hopefully, but I'm only one person and there are many others who will suffer.

You're going on the point that you have to suffer to enjoy things like a family, no you don't. You don't have to. It's implied on you that you should. With a little work in the opposite direction it can be changed. That's the point I'm making.

The problem is that you and others don't take it seriosuly even if you're not saying it you have an element of "well he's a useless punk" in what you're saying, like anyone who chooses to be themselves over work is a complete waste of space, and that things like purple hair and looking different are just whymsical quirks of the young generation, nothing more.

It's a lot, lot more than that.

There is much more to life than work. Happiness is one thing.
Like about coloured people and jobs, that means that a lot of coloured people are unhappy because they can't get jobs, but the way it a lot of every group is unhappy because they can't be themselves, or can't get a job because they look a little different, there are probably millions of people who deep down have always wanted to look different but never got a chance to try between work and peer pressure.

You have to balance and weigh it out. A massive amount of unhappiness still applies to this.

It's not something that can be taken lightly, people only take work seriously any more, if someone can't get a job, thats more horrible to the general public than someone being unhappy in a job, even if that person is single and has no family to feed.

How often do you hear "the unhappiness rate of people in jobs rose this year..."? Maybe a nice little article in the paper hitting a similiar tone once and again, but nothing compared to unemployment stories.

Work sells, individuality doesn't.






This is my signature. It's not a very
good signature, but it's a signature
nonetheless.
Back to Top
Rod View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: April 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 690
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rod Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 07 2003 at 8:39pm
Originally posted by Vineman Vineman wrote:


Ideals can be worth nothing or everything. I'd say the ideal of personal freedom is one worth dying for.
I AM probably going to be a "techie", I'll most likely get to wear my hair long, hopefully, but I'm only one person and there are many others who will suffer.


I'm guessing from your "I AM probably going to be a "techie" that you're young and haven't been in the work force. The great advantage of youth is that you believe you can do anything. You see injustice and believe you can do something about it. As we age, we lose a little bit of that. That's a shame.

With age, comes wisdom. I've learned which compromises aren't really compromises. What things aren't really that important. What things I'm willing to give up and sacrifice for my family or the other things I really want. I'd gladly give up so much of what's important to me for my family, because they're far more important to me.

There are compromises I'll make to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. When I was younger, I didn't want to buy a home and couldn't see making compromises for others. Having a family wasn't that important. The compromises I make don't make me unhappy.

But don't interpret that to mean I'm not true to myself. I'm just not the same person I was at 20. I won't be this person at 60.

I've been an employer and an employee. As an employer, my bottom line was the most important thing. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have been able to operate and provide the employees jobs. Employee satisfaction was down the list. My business was such that it didn't matter if someone had purple hair or T-shirts and shorts. There was no dress code. I hired the best people I could afford. Of course, my business didn't require dealing with the public, so I didn't have to worry about that.

As an employee, I've had to conform. I hate wearing ties, but if that's part of the job, I will. I don't like to get up so early in the mornings, but that's another compromise I have to make. I don't like taking direction from people who don't know what they're talking about, but that's part of it too. (Direction from people who know what they're doing is not only welcome, but what I hope for.)

So, no I don't mind if you have long hair, purple hair, tattoos, or a dozen piercings, but I understand that some people do. And if I'm buying from you and you have purple hair, I might not be as impressed with your sales pitch. It may be subtle, but it can happen.

Changing my hair or appearance for a job isn't a big thing.
Chances are that I'll enjoy the job more than I regret any changes, and the things I can do with my income are much more important.
Back to Top
Kuroneko View Drop Down
Elite Member
Elite Member
Avatar

Joined: August 27 2003
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kuroneko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2003 at 4:19am
I have a friend who was complaining about the dress code at her work because they set limits on the number of earrings a person could wear at one time, said employees' hair had to be either short or kept tied back, and wanted no visible tattoos or piercings, all of which she found unreasonable. Curiously, she had no objections to having to wear a uniform every day. . . so apparently it's all right for them to tell her what to wear, as long as they don't tell her to limit her jewellery and wear a ponytail :-P . She might argue the uniform is just clothing, and she can take it off when she gets home, but she can also take down her ponytail and put on as much jewellery as she wants once she gets home, so I don't see how it's that much different. Appearance clauses might not seem fair, but it's just an extension of the dress code. You don't see police officers protesting having to wear uniforms, after all, even though I'm sure not all of them like it. *shrugs* If you want something badly enough, you're generally willing to sacrifice a little to get it, even if it does seem inconvenient.
More awesome than a manatee!
Back to Top
duke View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 11 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 603
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2003 at 6:51am
There are various nuances to this. I agree that
cops should wear a uniform, which allows them
to be recognized at a moment - this is important
for their line of work. But many departments
require or required their officers to be "clean
cut" - no long hair for men or even beards. This
is too strict I think. Also, officers are often
required to wear a tie, even though today even
many business people don't wear one with their
suit. Ties are uncomfortable and not that good
for your health. I think a cop can still look like a
cop if they wear a dress shirt and forage cap,
and don't need a tie - really one of the stupidest
inventions I can think of. If I were given the
chance to modify the dress code of the Toronto
Police, my first change would be "no ties except
with the (rarely worn) full dress uniform" and if
they have to keep their hair short, that would
be changed too.

Also, "smelling like feces" is different from how
you wear your hair - the former is sure to
sicken co-workers and negatively distract them,
while the latter is really just a matter of taste.
Back to Top
Vineman View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: August 29 2003
Location: Depends
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vineman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2003 at 6:19pm
I don't like Uniforms either - they're pointless and serve mostly to dampen spirits, but at least you can take it off. It's hard for me to take a haircut off.
And I probably AM going to be a Techie, because I'm doing Computer Systems in college, I have the points, either that or I'm screwed. So I'm not being arrogant, just logical, computers is a wide field and i'ts what I'm best suited to, not neccessarily what i'd best like to do. I want to either design games, write books and poetry or obviously my ultimate dream, play music. But I'm sensible enough to know I'll probably end up as a web designer or something.

Quote I'm guessing from your "I AM probably going to be a "techie" that you're young and haven't been in the work force. The great advantage of youth is that you believe you can do anything. You see injustice and believe you can do something about it. As we age, we lose a little bit of that. That's a shame.

With age, comes wisdom.


Aw man, if you're going to bring ageism with it I'm just going to leave, everyone has different experiences in their lifetime, no matter how short, some more valuable than others.
I'm sorry but ageism is very low, a lot lower than my comment which I at least apologised for.

Of course I don't believe I can do anything, otherwise I wouldn't care waht you think, I can't do things on my own, but if everyone sat up and took notice, the world would be a different place.

All evils in the world feed off one another, it's the same mindset that spreads conformity that keeps thrid world debt going, that promotes child labour, that, that promotes greed. It may not be the same people but changing small things can result. The more free we are, the more confident we are to correct wrongdoings.


EDIT: The swear sensor on the board is rubbish, it just filtered the word C0cky, as in arrogant and c0cky.
This is my signature. It's not a very
good signature, but it's a signature
nonetheless.
Back to Top
hairalways View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 06 2002
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hairalways Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2003 at 4:31am
Look...It's plain and simple...The world is based on survival of the fittest....Being the strongest (mentally and physically)...You either survive, or you don't. When you think of it in those terms, physical appearances and other things like that are trivialities. If you don't consider them to be that, then you are part of the group referred to as "the thinning of the herd"

Plain and simple.
Back to Top
duke View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 11 2000
Status: Offline
Points: 603
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote duke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2003 at 5:57am
Technically, Rob and Hairalways have a
point, but if people like Vineman (and me,
for that matter) stand up for our rights
to be who we are, there may just get to
be less "survival of the fittest" and more
charitability. Look at the Netherlands - not
that I appove of their lax attitude towards
drugs or anything, but there, you can even
have long hair in the army. Something
there HAS changed. A dozen years ago or
so, "white collar workers" often did have
to wear "the white collar" and tie, now
casual is much more common. 50 years
ago, virtually all men had short (often real
short) hair as a matter of course. If bright
young people didn't come along and fight
for the right to have long hair, we might
still all have to go to the barber's for our
monthly clipping.

I don't see why Vineman would not be a
techie. My dad's a computer programmer
with one of the world's most reputable
computer firms, and he can go to work in
jeans. In fact there are people where he
works who have on them more extreme
fashion.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down