i had found the perfect stylist...until i just came from there last week..Her daughter was assisting...who had just enrolled in a cosmetology school...

this i didn't mind, until...i was asked "have you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior?"

i don't claim to be any religion, nor i look forward to having folks taking their beliefs and theologies trying to cram them down my throat..if you really want to annoy the hell out of someone..try "saving their soul" when they didn't ask for it..it's a guarantee someone is going to walk out of the shop with a foot up their *ss, or their feelings hurt..

which is exactly what happened...i am quite formidable when it comes to folks pushing religion, or personal agenda..what i do, who i screw, how i dress, or undress is my personal choice..and same goes for my spiritual preference as well...

the daughter was so shocked at how unmovable my foundation was..and realized she was tangling with someone older and wiser beyond her  19 years...My level of education, intellect, travels and personal experiences were so far beyond them...they both just sat there wondering where to go...and what to do...other than just doing my hair!

neither one of them could tell me what an amoeba was, nor what "DNA" stood for, and had no idea what the definition was for the word "flux"....which was pretty much the state they were in after i was done...

then...to make matters worse, the daughter was so confused when i challenged their belief with just one simple question..she began crying saying "i don't want to be lost!"...

the mother is a great stylist...the place is posh, and very classy..each of the stylists have private rooms - and i was proud to see an african american woman in such a wonderful place......i'm am of mixed cultures..and i hate to say this.. but usually when i have to have my hair done in African American shops, i get accosted with church....4 beauticians i've been to, so far, in the state of CA. I'm sure religion is what made our queens as strong and as beautiful as they are...I am sure, back in the day most folks were impoverished like myself and my single mom and to had to rely on religion, because for her, she felt she had nothing else..there has been, and always will be a struggle against classicism, racism, and any other "ism" that is used to display power over those that are "believed" to be "weak"..

i am not weak..far from it..and i do not depend on anything "outside" myself to make me strong...but i certainly don't go around throwing my beliefs, nor myself on to other people...that is just so... not cool!

She did say "the next time i meet you, i'll be better equipped."..i just turned and asked "how about keeping your equipment to yourself?  We'll have a far better working relationship, if you do it that way."

oh my GOsh- GGGrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

that is way uncalled for and so unprofessional-

i am a Christian and i would NEVER ever talk to a client or anybody for that matter, if someone is wanting to reach, you or lead you to the lord- my experience has been this-

you may be the only bible someone may ever read.

Its all about actions. i am so sorry she beat you with a bible. That is NOT what God wants from christians, to beat them up with releigion.

set your boundaries girl if you decide to go back, i would call and tell her your going to get your hair done not going to a sermon.

I think your response was well grounded.  You are obviously an intelligent woman with the right to your own opinions.

I never bring up religion.  If the client wants to talk about their religion, I"ll listen, but I don't comment on it, I keep my opinions on myself. 

I think bringing up religion like that is very tacky.  I'd rather talk about my 387 uses of astroglide before something as personal as religion.

Edit: and if it was me, I would let her know that any future mention will be her last, because I woulod discontinue her services.

Femme, I know exactly how you feel.  I moved to East Texas 2 yrs ago and was "assulted" with people asking what church I belonged to and what religon I practiced.  Comming from MN which is a very "accepting" state to the "Bible belt" was such culture shock.  I have never in all my years have I been preached to so much, and told that I needed saving and my children need God.  I have my own beliefs and are raising my kids to have their own opions.  We do not need anybody telling us what to think or believe!!!

Femme, you sound like such a smart and informed woman, YOU GO GIRL!!!!

femmemuscle wrote: the daughter was so confused when i challenged their belief with just one simple question..she began crying saying "i don't want to be lost!"...

Just curious, what was the question?

Anyway, when you go back, if she starts up again, just tell  her outright, "I don't want to talk about this..." and cheerfully change the subject. If she can't let it go, I guess you hit the pavement in search of another stylist.

I am a Christian, I love the Lord and sharing him with others, but only when they are interested. She needs to let it go.

Based on what you posted femmemuscle it really doesn't seem that she was trying to shove religion on you. She just asked if you knew the Lord. In your defense (because many people have tried to shove it onto you in the past) it seems that you were immediately offended. I'm not going to say if it was appropriate or not but hey if she feels that it is her duty to tell people about her beliefs then I think thats great. Some people procliam that they are so saved but are afraid to talk about their beliefs. I beleieve that if you love anything or are proud of anything in some way you will bring it up. And you said you started to ask them questions about DNA , etc. Let me tell you I have a Bachelor's degree and if you ask me anything about trigonometry then consider me stupid cause I couldn't tell you one thing. Next time just tell them that you are not interested. Don't get upset. I mean thats just like you could be excited about something and want to tell everyone and they directly tell you whatever and they don't want to hear it. I'm saved and no everyone I come across I don't stop and say "do you know Jesus". But I do share my faith because I'm proud of it. You would be suprised how many people wish that someone would have told them about Jesus a long time ago.  So if you don't believe don't challenge just be upfront and tell them you are not interested. You never know why someone chose Christ or if they are newly Christians (so it takes time to find out more). I'm not saying you are wrong, but maybe she felt comfortable enough with you as a client to share her beliefs.   

LatteTresses wrote: Based on what you posted femmemuscle it really doesn't seem that she was trying to shove religion on you. She just asked if you knew the Lord. In your defense (because many people have tried to shove it onto you in the past) it seems that you were immediately offended. I'm not going to say if it was appropriate or not but hey if she feels that it is her duty to tell people about her beliefs then I think thats great. Some people procliam that they are so saved but are afraid to talk about their beliefs. I beleieve that if you love anything or are proud of anything in some way you will bring it up. And you said you started to ask them questions about DNA , etc. Let me tell you I have a Bachelor's degree and if you ask me anything about trigonometry then consider me stupid cause I couldn't tell you one thing. Next time just tell them that you are not interested. Don't get upset. I mean thats just like you could be excited about something and want to tell everyone and they directly tell you whatever and they don't want to hear it. I'm saved and no everyone I come across I don't stop and say "do you know Jesus". But I do share my faith because I'm proud of it. You would be suprised how many people wish that someone would have told them about Jesus a long time ago.  So if you don't believe don't challenge just be upfront and tell them you are not interested. You never know why someone chose Christ or if they are newly Christians (so it takes time to find out more). I'm not saying you are wrong, but maybe she felt comfortable enough with you as a client to share her beliefs.

I have to disagree with you there.  Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion.  femmemuscle also handled it better then me, I would have asked her politely once or twice, but if someone keeps pushing it, I get irate.  I would have spoken to the manager and made sure they never got my business ever again.

okay..when the topic was brought up..i was pretty firm on my boundaries..believe it...bottom line was...while doing my hair..she'd keep bringing it up again...have you ever met people who just won't let things go?  she tried a few times...i learned through observation over the years..ignorance keeps repeating itself, or preaches loudly..intelligence knows when to stop or works quietly..

Her daughter would apparently watch on the sidelines while the mother would basically keep haranguing folks about her spiritual beliefs...she was usually the victor...people would apparently just say whatever it was she wanted to hear in order to get their hair done from what i'm learning...

It didn't take long, nor very much intelligence to cut through the chase..and like i said..the daughter just broke down and started crying right there..it wasn't a matter of time...just the right question/statement..and the poor thing folded...

in my travels there have been two things i've learned to stay away from religion and politics...it's not appropriate to bring up this personal issue in a professional environment..by the way, unfortunately, she is her own independent contractor..and good, i talked with her on the phone a day ago, and i was told she had learned her lesson..

No, Latresse - make no assumptions that i let anything "escalate"..i have no tolerance for drama..one look at my total being and you would know that immediately...being far more experienced in this arena, all i needed to do was give them back their issues - and let them deal with them..which, apparently, they didn't do very well...also, thank you for sharing that you have a bachelors...i usually don't do that...it doesn't mean very much to anyone in general - only the person who's sharing that information..

I will stick to the topic and say..that bringing up religion in a professional environment is not a good idea...nor will it keep clients coming in packs..LaTresse, i whole-heartedly agree especially with syrene123, and the others - people who "share" their religion without consent tend to be ignorant, selfish and boring...plus very presumptious of others situations without even being there...you've made an assumption about myself as well as the situation altogether..and please, don't preach...it's not attractive..written or verbally...certainly, after reading your material i am thoroughly convinced that what works for you - definitely does not work for me..

i did not find what the beautician said "offensive", nor was I immediately "offended"..i usually like an challenge of intellect..it's stimulating and educational..this was far from it...just the average rhetoric that i hear from the average garden variety of zealots.

it's good that you are proud of your spirituality, and your bachelor's degree...but share it when it is appropriate...I'm proud of my bust size...but i don't go around sharing it with all my damn clients!

Wow, that was something else . This has escalated far beyond what it's worth. I am not one to fuss over foolishness. I agree with the girls too. If you don't want to hear about religion when you go to the salon, then hey you shouldn't have too. But as I said above maybe she just brought it up because she felt comfortable with you as a client. YOU are the one who made intelligence such a big deal. What were you trying to prove when DNA had nothing to do with her bringing up her religion. It's like because she didn't know something you knew then she was down right pathetic. I really don't care if you are religious or not it has nothing to do with me. To call people in general ignorant for sharing their beliefs seems pretty ignorant to me (uhhh... didn't you just share your beliefs????). It seems to me that you are doing the assuming. I'm in no way trying to preach to you. In your posting you stated nothing at all about how many times she tried to speak to you about her religion. So yes I took it as she just said it one time and it escalated from there. And dear oh dear I have nothing to prove. Your comment about you challenging your stylist and her 19 year old daughter is why I gave my example of my BS. Just because someone doesn't know about a particular topic does not mean they are stupid or by any means less than yourself (which for some reason you really focused on...hummm???). No where at all in my posting did I say you were wrong, or your stylist had a right to share religion in her place of work. But for some reason it seems that you focused on me. I kinda of like how you tried to put me out there. It's actually sort of entertaining. And in no way will I try to post anything to ridicule you or your beliefs. It's just not me! So continue to feel great about yourself. I'm proud that you are so confident that you are highly intelligent and your intellect is immovable. That's Awesome gal!  

Really I am her to discuss extensions and hair care. I was lead to believe that everyone was here to enjoy themselves and swap info. If you don't want the opinions of others (or if you are against anyone who doesn't agree with your views) then don't post about such risky topics. You immediately took offense to everthing I said when I was just giving my opinion. All I can say is I'm not upset at all. Because in no way do I feel that it is "ignorant" for others to state their true beliefs or views. So please there is no need for the back and forth. If you have anything that you would like to directly post for me just PM me (although I really don't need to hear more, but if you need to get it off your chest....). I really see no need at all to cause a fuss on this forum. No one does that.

i had nothing to "prove", young lady..the 19 year old brought it up....yet, she had no idea what it meant..though she was using it to bombast science for some strange reason..

I will always feel good about who i am - with or without your permission...and thank you for sharing...

i was not sharing my beliefs at all...my personal beliefs are at a  level you'll never attain....i will restate again..for your benefit..I felt it was inappropriate to discuss religion in a professional environment...it's very simple...not a belief...not at all..

please, do not also assume that because someone has shown ignorance that i make them "less than"..that is so not cool..no one will ever be less than myself..ignorance and stupidity are two different ways of describing someone..the 19 year old was not stupid..far from it...but they both put on a very brilliant display of ignorance...pretty much like the one who just gave the aforementioned post...

.............

Please refer to the last paragraph of my post.

I think that there is a difference between sharing and harassing someone. Regardless of whether its a subject thats wholly inappropriate on any level in a professional environment (and I think that it is) There is a difference between saying 'wow, I'm really excited about Jesus!' and 'Have YOU accepted Jesus Christ as your personal saviour?' If she was just excited about sharing and wanted to talk about something she was into, she should have stuck with saying how she felt about it, and not asking someone what their beliefs were.

Its a bit like me being vegan and the difference between me saying 'I'm really excited, I just found a new restaurant I can eat at' and 'Oh, you're ordering chicken? Would you eat your dog as well?'... I'm just using that as an example.

I just think that it sounds as though she was not just talking about something she was excited about, she was asking her clents beliefs as well which is just ridiculous in a professional environment.

thank you ladies!  and latresse?  i think it would such a waste of time to pm, or "refer" to anything more you need to convey...why are you harrassing me?  what's the point?  you certainly won't get a convert on this end of the internet...i'm not interested in anymore of your paragraphs..nor "emoticons"  ....i cannot believe you have a bachelors degree - and acting as if you were still in elementary school...and trying to be clever at that...just stop it...it's becoming pathetic..

i feel this is as good as a place as any to talk about situations that have happened to others in a salon..nothing "risky"...nor about "beliefs"...your level of education is an achievement..but your display of ignorance, harrassment, and haranguing have definitely turned me off from even further conversation...

why would i even consider interacting with you via private messaging? let alone "referring" to any of your past messages?  why waste my time?  I've come to this forum wondering if this has happened to others...and it has...i'm just glad i'm not the only one..and now it's happening on the forum..and you're the culprit..the very beautician people would gladly stay away from if they had any intelligence at all...

live long and prosper...

and again...thanks ladies..i thought i was so wrong for feeling "uncomfortable" when these issues were raised in a professional salon..also, thank you again..for re-wording the way i felt - versus someone who assumed my emotions via their capacity of knowledge..

it's also a display of poor social graces to request someone to private message them...just because we do not agree...what does this accomplish?  Next thing you know, latresee will  be asking me to "step outside"? 

I consider myself a religous person, I have my own personal relationship with God, but I dont attend a church or subscribe to a specific denomination, and I will not be questioned about my beliefs nor do I feel that I have to explain them to anyone.

Femm I completely agree with you and what you did. The fact that she brought it up at all was incredibly unprofessional, the fact that she feels the need to bring it up when she basically has people "strapped" to her chair, is totally out there. I would have lost it and demanded someone else finish my hair, made a complaint to the manager and taken my business elsewhere.

Em

thanks em...i had to laugh at the analogy of being "strapped" to the chair..

now that i think about it..i guess i was...

yeah, and how i mix my protein drinks with "eye of newt" and balls of pigeons...

that ought to get 'em riled up!

I've had the same thing happen to me a few weeks ago. I went to this new salon for a trim, but also because I was thinking about getting a short cut and wanted to see what this guy could do. While I was in the chair, he asked what church I attend, I said "none, right now..." so he starts promoting his church and touting off scriptures and telling me I should read the bible & come to his chruch, it will make me "feel better". I'm not anti-religious, but there is a lot of things about organized religion that puts, me off a little, I also have a rule about discussing religion, & politics with people I just met.  I thought that he unprofessional was in his approach, I felt like I was in a religous infomercial.  He also seemed a little hypocritical because he had a bookshelf full of religious books, and right next to the bible there was a pic of two half-dressed women. Yeah, I won't be going back there.

By the way, I'm new here, HI everybody.

welcome, miss pink!  thanks for sharing your stories...i have to go back on the 19th of November..i had talked to her and her daughter since that episode..and it was agreed not to "cross that line"...There are some folks out there that fascinate me to no end..what's the attraction?  they don't have to say a word, and their true self totally shines..

it's being comfortable with who they are - and respecting others...in the professional environment as well as the non-professional..

dang aseya! you must have looked pretty sexy with that cape and dye ensemble!  you go, girl! 

femmemuscle wrote:  i hate to say this.. but usually when i have to have my hair done in African American shops, i get accosted with church....

That's funny; my experience is just the opposite;  the hair salons I visit seem to be filled with stylists who come to work straight from the nightclub & all they can talk about is sex and other women's men

But here's the most important question femmemuscle..

How did your hair turn out?

it turned out great!  she is a good!  she's also very professional..especially after we talked about that situation over the phone...i look forward to seeing her now, and we both agreed, to not go there, on that subject..

apparently, someone else had said something in the past...she jokingly said, "maybe that's the reason, i've only seen a few customers only once, and they never came back"..

I doubt, very seriously if that was the case..but, you never know..i know i was about to look elsewhere.

and Ms. Joy, i have to say you look great in that picture..absolutely gorgeous!  and i wish my experience had been "opposite" of what it was...but it had not been...

 awww thanks. 

And back to your experience, at least you were outspoken enough to let her know your feelings and not sacrifice a good hair stylist;  because I know some people who would have suffered in silence, & then never returned. 

thank goodness, i've learned over the years, not to be that type...it took a while...i, like many females have been taught it isn't "ladylike" to speak ones mind..either that, or if a woman speaks up, or stands up for herself, you know what she is considered..something that rhymes with a witch..

it took a long time for me to learn how "not to care" what others think, and how to care more of what i think of myself.

Funny thing..guys don't give a crap one way or the other....and you know what?  that is sexy...

True regarding the guy thing...society gives a lot of allowances for guys, and they are learning to do the same for women..depends on where you live...

i decided to take up just "working out" when i lived in the Midwest about 20 years ago..My mom said it wasn't "feminine" to do this..i liked working on cars, playing football, fighting guys, etc..being a tomboy..and i tell you, that was considered "crazy"..

when i decided to not marry and seek a career at the age of 15...that was unforgiveable......at the age of 16 in the midwest, back in those days...a girl should have been married with a kid or two..

i was shocked and dismayed at the response of my friends, and family...I was branded a "brazen hussy"...

when a young man can go out and do the very same thing - at the very same age..he was considered "a man"...

double standards are never going to go away...it's also good that you speak your mind...and learning how to do it in a way that still shows respect to yourself and those around you..it took me quite a while to learn that trick..

And it's funny, you're far better than i am..if i don't like someone..i just don't, i just can't, and i just won't...it's hard trying to fake it, and "play nice"...so the moment i see them, i just avoid the situation altogether..that way, i won't embarrass myself..I guess i'm saving them in the long-run as well.