Barack Obama wowed them with his speech during the Democratic National Convention. Not only is he likely to make history as only the third black U.S. senator elected since Reconstruction; pundits already are touting his presidential possibilities. With his probable electoral victory this November, Sen. Obama will join a number of African-American men who are making a real mark on American culture.

Obama's stage is politics. Black men are exerting their influence in every other nook and cranny of American life – cinema, athletics, media, medicine, theater. These are important milestones, but we can't let them obscure a more troubling assessment of black men's status.

It's an "emerging catastrophe," New York Times' columnist Bob Herbert wrote on July 19. And he's not alone in invoking such urgent language. Many experts are warning that black men are in the midst of a social crisis that Americans seem eager to ignore.

"Ignore" may be the wrong word. The media focus relentlessly on one aspect of this crisis: crime. But that focus is from the "if it bleeds, it leads," angle. The street crime that captures so much media attention is just the effect of a long list of causes. This crisis has many components – high unemployment, under education, poor healthcare, inadequate housing – that are not quite as media friendly.

Herbert's Times column highlighted a study by Andrew Sum, of Boston's Northeastern University, that found "by 2002, one of every four black men in the U.S. was idle all year long." And this unemployment rate of at least 25 percent did not include homeless men or those in jail or prison. "It is believed that up to 10 percent of the black male population under age 40 is incarcerated," Herbert writes. (I was unemployed for almost 2 years because no one wanted to hire me but they hired my less educated, less experience female counter part because she is a double minority)

That study had a national focus, but things are even worse in some urban centers. In Chicago, for example, the urgency of the situation prompted three Illinois Democrats – Reps. Danny K. Davis, Jesse L. Jackson Jr. and Bobby Rush – to convene a State of the African American Males Conference in June. In the press release announcing the success of the conference, organizers asked a number of questions:

Why are more than 50 percent of African-American males between the ages of 16 and 22 out of work and not in school single independent mothers if you are doing such a good job at being a father and mother?

Why are 87 percent of juvenile parolees African-American males if you are doing such a good job at being a father and mother?

Why are 60 percent of adult parolees African-American males if you are doing such a good job at being a father and mother?

Why have only 38 percent of black males graduated from Chicago high schools since 1995, while 62 percent have dropped out?"

Most of those numbers pertain to Illinois and Chicago, but also echo the statistics of other urban centers.

Earlier this year, the Community Service Society of New York released a report, "A Crisis in Black Male Employment," that found only 51.8 percent of black men between the ages of 16 through 64 were employed from 2000 to 2003.

But issues of criminal justice are perhaps the most troublesome aspects of this crisis. According to Justice Department figures, 12.9 percent of black males ages 25-29 were in prison or jail; for white men in the same age group the number is 1.6 percent. These racially disparate incarceration rates influence public perception of black men and debilitate other aspects of black community life.

The corrections complex occupies too much space in African-American culture and long has exerted disproportionate influence on the lives of young black people. Long lists of statistics detail the depths of this crisis, but just one – the U.S. Justice Department projects that 32 percent of African-American men born in 2001 will spend time in prison – is enough to reveal its debilitating effects. (Where are our so called single independent mother's who THINK they are our leaders?)

A flurry of research is unearthing the interlocking dimensions of this crisis. A study by Becky Pettit of the University of Washington and Bruce Western of Princeton University found that "fully 60 percent of African-American male high-school dropouts born between 1965 and 1969 had been incarcerated by the time they reached their early 30s." (See, "Prison in the Cards," Page 8)

Despite Obama's promise, conditions are worsening for far too many black men. Rep. Davis wrote President George W. Bush a letter urging him to establish a federal commission to analyze the dire plight of African-American males. "I urge you to take this step to bring national attention to a very serious problem and a great need," he wrote.

Davis supports Democrat John Kerry, who now has the national spotlight. Perhaps he should write Kerry a similar letter.

And why do those who have advanced, ignore issues that affect their own brother, father, and even their own SON?????????

This is what is stated in the dictionary>>>>>>>>

Don't forget you must pitch the old black VS. the young black males, and the young black male against the old black male. You must use the dark skinned slaves VS. the light skin slaves. You must use the female VS the male, and the male VS, the female. You must always have your servants and OVERSEERS (House Niggas) distrust all blacks, but it is necessary that your slaves trust and depend on us.

Why are more than 50 percent of African-American males between the ages of 16 and 22 out of work and not in school single independent mothers if you are doing such a good job at being a father and mother?

Why are 87 percent of juvenile parolees African-American males if you are doing such a good job at being a father and mother?

Why are 60 percent of adult parolees African-American males if you are doing such a good job at being a father and mother?

------------------------------------------------------------ ---

Why?  Because nothing can replace the fathers that walked away from the situation.  All a woman can do in that situation is the best she can.  If that is not enough  then those statistics are the price we all have to pay for a man walking away from his responsibility.  Raising a child takes two.  No matter how independent a woman is, nothing can fill the gap of the missing dad.  Nothing.  BiggMike I really don't think a woman can be blamed for those statistics.  I don't think it was her raising in and of itself that resulted in this, but rather the absence of the male.  That absence says alot more to a child than what the mother tried to do in spite of it.  Even in homes broken by divorce, it is a known fact that the absence of one parent has a profound effect of on the children.  Just my humble 2 and a half cents

I agree with Sistaslick...women are getting all the blame. There are single fathers as well and what are the statistics on those. I'm guessing since they are saying sarcasticaly that the mother is such a great "father or mother" that the father is a great mother and father.  Whatever.

I don't know why some siblings have more success than others...did you ask them. Who is to say that they did not care or was not concerned with why? I don't think it has to do with the parents, I think it has to do with freedom of choice and individuality, you can't make someone do what they dont want to do.

Why?????? Women are the nutures of life.

THE BREAKING PROCESS OF THE AFRICAN WOMAN Take the female and run a series of tests on her to see if she will submit to you desires willingly. Test her in every way, because she is the most important factor for good economic. If she shows any signs of resistance in submitting completely to your will, do not hesitate to use the bull whip on her to extract that last bit of bitch out of her. Take care not to kill her, for in doing so, you spoil good economics. When in complete submission, she will train her offsprings in the early years to submit to labor when they become of age. Understanding is the best thing. (she will teach her female offsprings to hate the male and she will not submit to him as she should BY NATURE)

Therefore, we shall go deeper into this area of the subject matter concerning what we have produced here in this breaking of the female nigger. We have reversed the relationship. In her natural uncivilized state she would have a strong dependency on the uncivilized nigger male, and she would have a limited protective dependency toward her independent male offspring and would raise female offspring to be dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance. We reversed nature by burning and dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance. We reversed nature by burning and pulling one civilized nigger apart and bull whipping the other to the point of death--all in her presence. By her being left alone, unprotected, with male image destroyed, the ordeal cased her to move from her psychological dependent state to a frozen independent state. In this frozen psychological state of independence she will raise her male and female offspring in reversed roles. For fear of the YOUNG MALE'S life she will psychologically train him to be mentally weak and dependent but physically strong. Because she has become psychologically independent, she will train her female offspring to be psychological independent as well. What have you got? You've got the nigger woman out front and the nigger man behind and scared. This is perfect situation for sound sleep and economics. Before the breaking process, we had to be alert and on guard at all times. Now we can sleep soundly, for out of frozen fear, his woman stand guard for us. He cannot get past her early infant slave molding process. He is good tool, now ready to be tied to the horse at a tender age. By the time a nigger boy reaches the age of sixteen, he is soundly broken in and ready for a long life of sound and efficient work and the reproduction of a unit of good labor force.

Continually, through the breaking of uncivilized savage niggers, by throwing the nigger female savage into a frozen psychological state of independency, by killing the protective male image, and by creating a submissive dependent mind of the nigger male slave, we have created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever, unless a phenomenon occurs and re shifts the positions of the male and female savages. We show what we mean by example. We breed two nigger males with two nigger females. Then we take the nigger males away from them and keep them moving and working. Say the nigger female bear a nigger female and the other bears a nigger male. both nigger females, being without influence of the nigger male image, frozen with an independent psychology, will raise him to be mentally dependent and weak, but physically strong...in other words, body over mind. We will mate and breed them and continue the cycle. That is good, sound, and long range comprehensive planning.

And also because Black women follow white women like house niggas, not like Black men who tell White Men and White women to go to hell with all that Eurocentric foolishness.

So who really follows and who really leads?

If our so called Independent women where so independent, they would not follow White women like a flock of birds. It's true!

Who bleaches their skin to look like white women?

Who Straightens their hair to look white?

Who hates their own African Culture more than a Black woman?

Who raises African American own boys to be weak minded men and teach their daughter to hate males?

Who continue to cry about childsupport when they know Black men are at a greater disadvantage than them?

Who has more freedom than Black Men but does nothing but go shopping for fake hair to look more like white women?

Who files for divorce and deny the fathers access to their children more than any other woman in the world?

Who raise homos and lesbians in their home let them dress and act like fatherless bastards in school and in public but claim to be doing a good job?

Who refuses to accept that there are more women than men and that there is more competion for men than there is for women?

Who refuses to see that the same people they follow is destroying their MEN with discrimination and gender bias?

Who FIGHTS TO KEEP OUR AFRICAN CULTURE ALIVE WHILE THE OTHER SELLS IT OUT BY REFUSING TO SUBMIT AND FOLLOW THE REAL LEADERS?

COULD IT BE THE FEMALE HOUSE NIGGA WHO THEY HAVE BROKEN LIKE A SLAVE.  DEGREE OR NO DEGREE, JOB OR NO JOB, WEAVE OR NO WEAVE, BLEACHED OUT SKIN OR JET BLACK SKIN. UNTIL OUR BLACK WOMEN LEARN TO STOP FOLLOWING WHITE PEOPLE AND LEARN TO BE TRUE AND LOYAL TO THEIR OWN MEN AND OWN CULTURE......................... CAUSE REAL MEN DON'T FOLLOW THEY LEAD. GET YOU A REAL MAN.

BIGGMike wrote: And also becasue Black women follow white women like house niggas, not like Black men who tell White Men and White women to go to hell with all that Eurocentric foolishness.

Exscuse me!  Black Mean fall into Eurocentric standards jsut as much as anyone else in the world.

I'm not even going to continue.

I donot see anyone following anyone!  And I for one resent the comments that are made on here!  What does this have to do with hair?  Just wondering! Debbie

Who bleaches their skin to look like white women?

Not me. or any sista in my vicinity

Who Straightens their hair to look white?

Not me.  I love the way I look.  And since when did straight hair become for whites only?   Man you give them waaaaay too much credit.  So its wrong to change up your look?  What about y'all and those waves... I've enver seen Africans roaming around with waves flat on their head.  are y'all trying to be Samoan or some other race with waves that lay down?  If you really want to be "as black as black can be" just let it grow up and out like nature intended.! Come on now Bigg Mike are you fa real? I guess growing out your hair long is considered "being white" too b/c we are supposed to be stuck with short, broken off hair riiiiight?

Who hates their own African Culture more than a Black woman?

???? what ????  generalizations like these don't help the discussion along

Who raises African American own boys to be weak minded men and teach their daughter to hate males?

Not me.  I'm not man hating.  My mother didn't teach me to be man hating.  If I did become a man hater it would probably be because of the father who walked out on us when I was 11.  But I don't hate him or any other black man.  I have a son and his father and I are teaching him to be strong.  We are teaching our daughter to have the same strength.  Teaching weakness and submission to either gender is just plain wrong in my opinion.  The US consititution doesn't say All men are created equal except women who should be dependent and lag somewhere behind.  I am alll for the strong black man, but having a strong black man does not nessecitate having a weak black woman.  Are you saying he can only be strong in our weakness and that our strength somehow diminishes him?

Who continue to cry about childsupport when they know Black men are at a greater disadvantage than them?

There would be no need for childsupport if families would stay together.  And since it is 9 times out of 10 the man walking away from the family unit what do you want her to do?  You want a woman to be dependent, but dependent on what- the men who ran away? 

Who has more freedom than Black Men but does nothing but go shopping for fake hair to look more like white women?

Ummm... I'm not a weave wearer so we'll leave that one alone.

Who files for divorce and deny the fathers access to their children more than any other woman in the world?

Where are you getting these facts from?  Are they facts?  I would never deny my husband (well ex if we were divorced) to right to see his children. 

Who raise homos and lesbians in their home let them dress and act like fatherless bastards in school and in public but claim to be doing a good job?

Boy, you have it out for us don't ya? Where did you see this becoming an epidemic. 

Who refuses to accept that there are more women than men and that there is more competion for men than there is for women?

I can accept that.  I'm married so its of no consequence to me now.

Who refuses to see that the same people they follow is destroying their MEN with discrimination and gender bias?

I don't follow anyone.  I do what I want to do when I want to do it.  thats why I dont' understand what the big issue is here.  Why can't men and women stop pointing fingers and singing woe is me and stand up and DO SOMETHING.  Stop saying-- he's keeping us down...they are discriminating... its not right...its not fair... STAND UP and take responsibility for you and your family.  Do right by you and your family and no one- regardless of their race or the power you give them in your mind can stop you.  You are empowering them by sitting around trying to figure out who to blame next.  If things aren't going right in my life, I place the blame on ME.  I don't say... well I was born black, my dad walked out on me, my mom didn't know how to raise me... stop being the victim.  That is what I look for in a man-- is he strong?  It is easy to play victim.  we all can play victim.  Its time to stand up and move on. 

CAUSE REAL MEN DON'T FOLLOW THEY LEAD. GET YOU A REAL MAN.

I agree.  and I do have a man.  A good man.  A rare man.

I don't know about that.

Who's feared more, Black MEN or Black women?

White people accept Black women more because Black women accept Eurocentric Ideology more.

I think Black MEN are feared more because we are reject it the most. That's why we also reject Eurocentric ideology more too. Maybe if we were respected and our own culture accepted more, we MIGHT be more willing to accept Eurocentric culture more.

Thank you, I care about Young Black men more than their own mothers do!

Sister you have to understand, Black women have more power and more freedom than Black Men. They have this freedom because white people know they will not do anything about racism like Black MEN will. They know Black women will only look out for themselves and not Black MEN. They give them freedom and Black women go shopping or attacking Black men for not having the same freedom. This does not help our race and culture, it destroys it.  This is a Fact. 

So before Black women go for my throat, they need to ask themselves........

Do I do everything in MY POWER with the Freedom that white people give me, to make sure my fatherless children know their own African Culture?

Do I teach my daughters to be so independent that she does NOT have the qualities of a good mother and a good wife?

Do I teach my fatherless sons anything other than self hatred and homosexual bahaviors by showing them that my female independence is more important than submitting my self to a man and learning how to follow them LIKE THE HOLY BIBLE, ISLAM, and PRETTY MUCH THE LARGE MAJORITY OF RELIGIONS SAY FOR ME TO DO?

Do I compete with my childrens father and everybody elses father for EMPLOYMENT that they can have but don't because my independence is more important than keeping families together?

Do I have any African pride or do I just say that I do so I can appear to be a Real African Queen in front of other Black people, but behind close doors I sell out every chance I get?

Above all, am I really marriage material or is my career and degrees more important? I think the degrees and careers are more important.

Why Biggmike?

Sistaslick wrote: Who bleaches their skin to look like white women? Not me. or any sista in my vicinity

Wrong, America is full of Black Women with Bleached out skin. Turn on a TV or just go to White Corporate America, they are there and getting paid for their willingness to sell out and follow.

Sistaslick wrote: Who Straightens their hair to look white? Not me.  I love the way I look.  And since when did straight hair become for whites only?   Man you give them waaaaay too much credit.  So its wrong to change up your look?  What about y'all and those waves... I've enver seen Africans roaming around with waves flat on their head.  are y'all trying to be Samoan or some other race with waves that lay down?  If you really want to be "as black as black can be" just let it grow up and out like nature intended.! Come on now Bigg Mike are you fa real? I guess growing out your hair long is considered "being white" too b/c we are supposed to be stuck with short, broken off hair riiiiight?

I never said you had those qualities, you assumed I was talking about you. I'm talking about Black women who have no African Pride. If the shoe fits........

There is nothing wrong with letting your hair grow out are having waves. Black men do not have to Perm, Iron, or put any chemicals in their hair to have waves. Waves come natural for many Black men like my self. All I have to do is brush. Black women put conks (perms) in their hair to give it that white look. This is why so many of the sisters are bald-headed under those horse tail weaves. They try waaaaay to hard to cross over and Black men do not like this. Some Black women do have naturally straight hair, but most do not. Asians make millions of dollars each year from sister want to cross over. Slave mentality. That's a Fact!

Sistaslick wrote: Who hates their own African Culture more than a Black woman? ???? what ????  generalizations like these don't help the discussion along

If they don't hate their own African culture, why do so many of them refuse to submit and respect good Black Men. No culture and no pride.

If they don't hate their own African culture, why do so many of them go against Black MEN once white people give them jobs and a bit of independence. They hate their own culture and want to be like white people.

Sistaslick wrote: Who raises African American boys to be weak minded men and teach their daughter to hate males? Not me.  I'm not man hating.  My mother didn't teach me to be man hating.  If I did become a man hater it would probably be because of the father who walked out on us when I was 11.  But I don't hate him or any other black man.  I have a son and his father and I are teaching him to be strong.  We are teaching our daughter to have the same strength.  Teaching weakness and submission to either gender is just plain wrong in my opinion.  The US consititution doesn't say All men are created equal except women who should be dependent and lag somewhere behind.  I am alll for the strong black man, but having a strong black man does not nessecitate having a weak black woman.  Are you saying he can only be strong in our weakness and that our strength somehow diminishes him?

Once again, I never said you did this. For all I know you and your husband teach your children well.

Teaching weakness and submission to either gender is just plain wrong in my opinion. 

One of them will have to lead and one will have to follow. What does the Bible say? What does YOUR African Culture say?

We all know what white people and their Eurocentric culture encourage Black women to do.  And they follow Eurocentric values. Fact!

Sistaslick wrote: Who continue to cry about childsupport when they know Black men are at a greater disadvantage than them? There would be no need for childsupport if families would stay together.  And since it is 9 times out of 10 the man walking away from the family unit what do you want her to do?  You want a woman to be dependent, but dependent on what- the men who ran away?

You ever considered that being overly aggressive,

talking too damn loud and too much, cooking nothing but fried foods or pork (If they know how to cook), or going out to eat all time, debating with a brother about every damn thing, and not knowing how to SUBMIT would force him to leave for a female that is little less competative and less combative (For peace of mind in his own home, the only place that white people do not control, now that's changed haven't sister). 

And lets not talk about WHITE PEOPLE ACCEPTING BLACK WOMEN OVER BLACK MEN, and the fact that Black women refuse to admit this (YOU have not admitted this true yet "sister". Why??????????) 

Oh, and lets not forget about false domestic abuse charges, not knowing how to be quiet when it's time, listening to manless fatherless friends, being materalistic gold diggers and putting money over every thing else including your husband and your African Culture.

You know these are the main reasons for the destruction of the black family, but lets play dumb, white people are watching.

Sistaslick wrote: Who files for divorce and deny the fathers access to their children more than any other woman in the world? Where are you getting these facts from?  Are they facts?  I would never deny my husband (well ex if we were divorced) to right to see his children.

Lady, why are you playing dumb. You know that Black women file for divorce more than any other women in this country. This is a fact and you know this. You are Black/African American? I don't have to give you stats. Ask any ADULT PERSON WHO LIVE IN AMERICA. It not that hard to figure out or prove. It's a FACT!

 I would never deny my husband (well ex if we were divorced) to right to see his children. 

Please, women alway say this while they are with the man. As soon as it's over, they deny relationships.  FACT THAT CAN BE PROVEN AND YOU KNOW IT!

Sistaslick wrote: Who raise homos and lesbians in their home let them dress and act like fatherless bastards in school and in public but claim to be doing a good job? Boy, you have it out for us don't ya? Where did you see this becoming an epidemic.

Where have you been for the last 10 years, Lesbos and homos are going wild in schools. Ask teachers and public school admins., they will tell you young girls are the worst. Ask these young boys on this site, they will tell you. Playing dumb is not working. There are far more Gay teenage girls than boys, but the bottom line is.... They are coming from all these single female households that allow everything under the sun to go on. How can you not see this? You don't want to see it. Older Black Women know and will be the first to admit that it's true. But lets play dumb, we don't want white people to know the truth.

Sistaslick wrote: Who refuses to see that the same people they follow is destroying their MEN with discrimination and gender bias? I don't follow anyone.  I do what I want to do when I want to do it.  thats why I dont' understand what the big issue is here.  Why can't men and women stop pointing fingers and singing woe is me and stand up and DO SOMETHING.  Stop saying-- he's keeping us down...they are discriminating... its not right...its not fair... STAND UP and take responsibility for you and your family.  Do right by you and your family and no one- regardless of their race or the power you give them in your mind can stop you.  You are empowering them by sitting around trying to figure out who to blame next.  If things aren't going right in my life, I place the blame on ME.  I don't say... well I was born black, my dad walked out on me, my mom didn't know how to raise me... stop being the victim.  That is what I look for in a man-- is he strong?  It is easy to play victim.  we all can play victim.  Its time to stand up and move on.

I did not say YOU do this.

You still have not admitted that many Black Women follow White people and their Eurocentric culture in Corporate America, in Universities and and now in everything else too.

Why? You know it's true. Oh, by the way, I did not say YOU follow white people. 

It's easy to say let's not play the victim, when black women are Double Minorities who get hired on jobs for being a woman and being black. And White people love them for being willing to "fit in" so well.

Black Women Play the victom in the Media, in Civil Court, false domestic Violence cases, to their girlfriends, and at the Childsupport office. So who are we kidding? Not me or anybody else who uses their brain for more than ways to get out of telling the TRUTH.

BIGGMike wrote: Sistaslick wrote: Who continue to cry about childsupport when they know Black men are at a greater disadvantage than them? There would be no need for childsupport if families would stay together.  And since it is 9 times out of 10 the man walking away from the family unit what do you want her to do?  You want a woman to be dependent, but dependent on what- the men who ran away?    WHITE PEOPLE ACCEPTING BLACK WOMEN OVER BLACK MEN, and the fact that Black women refuse to admit this (which YOU have not admitted yet) .

Thats because I don't think its completely true, biggmike  Just think about it most interracial relationships happen between a black man and a white woman, not the other way around.  Now in the business world, you may be on to something there. 

BIGGMike wrote: Sistaslick wrote: Who files for divorce and deny the fathers access to their children more than any other woman in the world? Where are you getting these facts from?  Are they facts?  I would never deny my husband (well ex if we were divorced) to right to see his children.  As for as denying men relationships with their children, women alway say this while they with the man. As soon as it's over, they deny relationships.  FACT THAT CAN BE PROVEN AND YOU KNOW IT!

That is true alot of times in ANY race, but its impossible to speak for us all.  When my parents divorced-- HE FILED.  My mother never denied my father the right to see us.  He just chose not to.  I can't even begin to count the number of custody visits he "forgot" to come get us.  You would have liked her-- she was humble and dependent.  Dependent to the point that when he left us-- she had nothing left to stand on.  He grew up in a 2 parent household and he still apparently missed the boat.  But personally, I know I don't hold a monopoly on the children and I would not dare use them as pawns in the war game of divorce.  But I can only speak for me.  ahhh well...

Nor have you admitted that White people who practice GENDER discrimination help to destroy the African American Family.

Why? You say you are a sister. Get real. Why are covering for them. Oh, I forgot. White people need protection from this conversation don't they.

Sister tell the truth. You these things are destroying the Balck Family. Why do pretend it's not. What world do you live in? Not in a Black/African American world. There are so many Black Women living in a different world than Black MEN. It's sad, Real sad. This is what prevents Black Women from feeling the pain of their own brother, fathers, and grandfather. Black women are in the House with White people WHILE BLACK MEN DIE OR GO TO JAIL, JUST LIKE WILLIE LYNCH WANTED IT.

Can we get One sister who will admit that Black MEN are not the only ones making mistakes. Black women protect each other even if they have to play dumb like they don't see what's going on.

Well I see and I will keep checking Black Women with Fake hair and Fake skin tones and no African Pride. We need to over come this Fake Eurocentric mentality and Get Real. Black men are going away fast and our Black Women Do have plenty Blame to carry when they sell out their own Race right in front of the whole world.

BIGGMike wrote: Once again, I never said you did this. For all I know you and your husband teach your children well. Teaching weakness and submission to either gender is just plain wrong in my opinion.  One of them will have to lead and one will have to follow. What does the Bible say? What does YOUR African Culture say? We all know what white people and their Eurocentric culture encourage Black women to do.  And they follow Eurocentric values. Fact!

I know, I am just speaking for myself.  I can't speak for the whole b/c I am aware that there is some truth to what you are saying.   I agree that one should lead and the other should follow--- but we feel that by teaching both of our children what it means to lead and be strong is the right thing to do.  Our daughter should know how to lead in case (Heaven forbid) she is put in the position to have to step up to that plate.  She should at least have it in her to know.  We don't want her to replace her man or shut down a good man that comes her way, but sending her out into the world ill prepared and needy is a death sentence.  JMO.

BIGGMike wrote:   Where have you been for the last 10 years,Older Black Women know and will be the first to admit that it's true. But lets play dumb, we don't want white people to know the truth.

In junior high and highschool.

BIGGMike wrote: Nor have you admitted that White people who practice GENDER discrimination help to destroy the African American Family.

Anyone who practices gender discrimination is setting all of us back.  No one is faultless here.  I'm not covering up for anyone-- I say we all are to blame.  I can't sit back and say the white man is at fault- he only has the power we give him- no more.  I can't sit back and say all black men are at fault either... we are all playing our roles in this.  I guess as a woman it is disheartning to see that we have two choices basically.  To either be "broken by the white man" as your article states... or be broken by our own men.  Either way we are supposed to be broken by someone.  Like horses.  Like dogs.  Talk about gender discrimination.  The Taliban would love this.

BIGGMike wrote: Sister tell the truth. You these things are destroying the Balck Family. Why do pretend it's not. What world do you live in? Not in a Black/African American world. There are so many Black Women living in a different world than Black MEN. It's sad, Real sad. This is what prevents Black Women from feeling the pain of their own brother, fathers, and grandfather. Black women are in the House with White people WHILE BLACK MEN DIE OR GO TO JAIL, JUST LIKE WILLIE LYNCH WANTED IT.

I agree with you on alot of things--but some of the things you've said about black women are just plain wrong.  I do see the black family falling apart but I believe it has alot to do with people not taking responsibility for themselves and pointing fingers everywhere else but at themselves.  Change starts with a singular person.  You can't blame the past forever--it was horrid, it hurt, it was terrible.  But we have to take it, learn, and move on.  People only have the power over us that we give them.  I still say you give them entirely too much credit.

BIGGMike wrote: Can we get One sister who will admit that Black MEN are not the only ones making mistakes. Black women protect each other even if they have to play dumb like they don't see what's going on.

I'll be the first to admit that.  Black women make just as many mistakes.  We can do some FOUL stuff.  Foul stuff. I will say that I appreciate this discussion though.  It is very engaging. I've been thinking about alot of the things you've said here.

I'm not blaming the past. I'm talking about What's going on Right Now.

1. Black women Bleaching their skin,

2. Wearing Fake horse hair or perming their hair so it looks WHITE

3. Not knowing how to submit because they follow white people instead of their own African culture.

4. Not admitting that Black Women have more freedom than Black Men and are hired more often because they are Double Minorities and They are accepted over Black MEN.  

BIGGMike wrote:   4. Not admitting that Black Women have more freedom than Black Men and are hired more often because they are Double Minorities and They are accepted over Black MEN.

You didn't want us to miss that one huh?  Well the reason I can't concede that point is because I don't believe it to be entirely true.  Do black women have more freedom?  I honestly don't think we do.  women in general lack the freedom that men have.  Who gets paid more for the same job?  Men do.  Who got the first rights to vote in this country?  Black men.  If we were truly favored... they would have let us get first dibs on voting.  Apparently women...black women were considered as less. 

On the payscale  white men were paid the most... black men made 72 cents for every 1 dollar a white man made doing the same job...(I think they were using coporate jobs to compare)  Women of all races made less than that.  A black woman is a double minority-- 2 strikes against you.  Nobody wants a woman... definitely not a black one.  Getting a job b/c you are a double minority is not wrong if you are EQUALLY qualified for it.  Now if you aren't as qualified, then its wrong.  I'd say the same for an Asian woman, an Indian woman or other minority woman.  Its funny b/c some white men were complaining about y'all taking all their jobs... now its us taking your jobs?  I don't think so buddy  I guess discrimination is relative.

BIGGMike wrote: Sistaslick wrote: Who hates their own African Culture more than a Black woman? ???? what ????  generalizations like these don't help the discussion along If they don't hate their own African culture, why do so many of them refuse to submit and respect good Black Men. No culture and no pride. If they don't hate their own African culture, why do so many of them go against Black MEN once white people give them jobs and a bit of independence. They hate their own culture and want to be like white people.

Are you serious!? What makes you say that black women, bcuz they are given a job and independence, hate who they are and want to "be like white people"? This may be a little off topic, but I feel compelled to bring it up anyway. What about all the NBA, NFL, actors, etc that feel the need to marry/date white women once they've so called "made it"? Do they suddenly hate their own culture and what to be white? Are these so called "good" BLACK MEN that are shunning their black women and refusing/disregarding black women bcuz now that they are successful a white woman would even look there way! I think it's ridiculous that you even make that statement, brotha!

No I say this because it's true. A black man with the same education and experience as a black woman apply for the same job, their is a higher chance that the female will get it if she is a Double Minority,.....Black and a Female. TRUE!

Here in Dallas the proof is everywhere. I have 3 cousins with a college education and all 3 of them are unemployed. I know for a fact that they constantly look for work but when they see a 6 foot Black man with a college degree, they freeze up and let the stereotypes take over. What's sad is one of my cousin has served in the US Army for 6 years and he struggle to get paid too. What the in hell is going on in this country. I know, time for 666, the Mark of the Beast.

The holy bible speaks of this. It says, there will be wars and rumors of wars. There will be pestilence and incurable disease(AIDS/HIV),HOMOSEXXXUALITY, PEOPLE WORSHIPING FALSE GODS.

It also speaks of Women raising up against MEN. Women are out of control with this independence thing.

You see, there are many deep underlying things that fall under independenct.

When a woman says independence, what is she really saying? You want to stand over a Man, You are lesbian who's married to a man, You are going against the Holy Bible, You don't respect the traditions of our forefathers.

Or just want to be able to cause problems in your home by challenging you husband about everything and threatening to file for divorce cause you don't need a man.

That's what's going on in America. That's why all the men are afraid to marry or have children because the women here use divorce, their jobs, childsupport, and a host of other things that fall under independence.

So you have to be careful about this independence because sometimes it's a code for home wreckers, and hidden lesbianism to MEN.

Not all women are like this, but many, many, many are here in America. They secretly hate MEN.

It's called Penis Envy.

Penis envy is the desire to possess the male sexual organ (a penis), which Sigmund Freud believed women unconsciously possess.

Freud's teaching that women suffer from penis envy is generally attributed to the Victorian assertion that male sex organs are better than those of females. While fashionable for a number of decades, this idea is no longer regarded as a serious psychological concept except by fundamentalist Freudians.

Evolutionary psychology does support this claim and suggests that on an unconscious level, females are aware that parental investment will primarily go towards males, due to their higher levels of sexual fitness and ability to produce more offspring. The female is envious of the male sibling for possessing a penis and desires to have a penis to secure more resources from the parents. There is no evidence for these predictions yet!

Feminists Point of view

Feminists generally regard this theory as sexist. In turn, feminists themselves have been accused of suffering from penis envy, as traditionally masculine traits have been valued over feminine ones by many 20th Century and 21st Century feminists. Historically, feminists have explained that penis envy existed as the result of a male-dominated patriarchy, and "penis envy" was the understandable frustration and desire to participate in the power structure, which oppressed women. Women were denied entry into business and academia, and medicine and religion. A woman wanting to be an orthodox rabbi or Catholic priest was denied, and any such "penis envy" may well reflect such frustration at social inequality. Unlike the falsified predictions of Freudian penis envy, and evolutionary psychology penis envy, feminist theories predict that penis envy declines as society becomes more egalitarian, and more women are placed in the highest levels of power.

Masculinity is the trait of being associated with the male in various contexts. The word masculine can refer to:

• the property of being biologically male, more precisely often expressed in biology as "sex"
• a traditional gender role associated with sexually male humans
• grammatical gender, an inflection of nouns, largely derived from gender role association

Masculinity is sometimes used as a synonym for manhood. The counterpart or positive antonym of masculinity is feminity. The negative antonym is effeminacy.

Masculinity is a gender role associated with male humans and an indicator of social status much as wealth, race or social class. Greater masculinity usually brings greater social status for males, and many English words such as virtue (from the Latin vir for "man'", also used in words such as vim and vigor and virulent) reflect this, implying a clear association with strength. Masculinity is associated more commonly with adult men rather than younger boys as a key characteristic of social persona. The corresponding gender role for females is called femininity. To assert the presence of femininity or masculinity in a member of the opposite gender is to mark them as unusual, often in an undesirable way. In non-human primates, the corresponding trait is called dominance in both sexes, expressed as relative position within a gender group, where human terms such as "masculinity" almost never used in general ethology.

I see women everyday that want to be a MAN.

They copy everything a man does.

Copy everything a man wears.

Copy everything a MAN says.

So it's not too far off that they would try copy his penis too. Penis Envy.....think about it cause it's true.  

Black women don't like this topic.

I think its a fairly interesting topic.  I mean I haven't commented b/c it seriously doesn't apply to me.  I don't want to be a man, and I tell my husband everyday that I know that I probably couldn't handle the level of responsibility he faces every day as a man.  I am glad that he holds the family down the way he does.  He leads the family and teaches me things as we grow together.  He is great at his job, and I am great at mine.  I like my role in the family unit and wouldn't change that for anything.  thats just me though.