Real American Hero!

Yes Aeocean,

All things come to an end some day, including America, including planet earth, including our solar system.
But you have to assume that in the interim that life has some value, and that how humans live have some value.

You say you live in a Latino-majority neighborhood. Well I am Hispanic(Mexican-American, 5th generation American), and I grew up in south Florida where more recent Hispanic immigrants from Cuba moved to escape death and an incredibly brutal dictator. These Latinos from Cuba who lost everything they had, don't see America as just "McDonald's" or a land owned by a few corporations; they worked hard, saved their money and started their own businesses. They love this country and are grateful and patriotic and there is nothing phony about their sentiment. And if you weren't so ignorant you would know that 75% of the jobs in America are in small and medium sized businesses and 2/3rds of the wealth is tied up in small businesses and the jobs they create.

Simply equating a great, culturally and ethnically diverse society of nearly 300 million people like America, and all of the interesting people, and lives, and interests, and lifestyles, in this country to "McDonalds"; or a handful of big companies; is absurd, unrealistic, and silly.


Quite frankly, and this is no slam on the Bay area where you live(Brent has mentioned he lives near San Francisco as well), you need to get out and meet people in other parts of the country a little and see what America is really all about.

Spend a few years in the Deep South, or the Midwest, or the Rocky Mountain States, or the Northeast of the U.S. . You will find that the cynical, put-down America, simplistic view of the country that you have doesn't wash in most parts of America. This country has a little more substance than that.

This country has given more poor people from more ethnic and racial groups from around the world an oppurtunity to have a decent life where they can feed their kids, educate their kids, and pursue their goals and aspirations than anywhere else on earth. Why do you think so many immigrants have continually moved here for over 200 years and still do today?

My attitude is, that there are so many good people who would love to have the oppurtunity to move here that maybe those who are so down on America, who complain about it constantly, and who do little to constructively add or change the country for the better other than to put down the country, maybe you can find a better life in Iran or North Korea or Russia, a life more to your liking. I'm not being insincere in saying this.

I'm not saying anyone should be forced to leave the U.S. but if you are so bitter, unhappy, and cynical about this place and have an infinity with how people lived under Saddam, maybe you would be happy in ...say Iran! There are many Iranians who would love to live here, maybe we can make a swap and you can see what it is really like living in a place that really is poor, not like your neighborhood, and really doesn't have freedom, that lives under a dictator, and you would go to jail just for being critical of the government as you have done on this thread. And there is no environmental laws, and like Brent said, no Green Party.


I'm not saying love America or leave it, but the obvious question is; why stay somewhere that you don't like and are cynical about and who you blame(wrongly and immaturely) for the world's problems? If I was even a little bit as cynical about America as you are, I certainly would be happy to leave and find somewhere I liked better! That's a no-brainer. Why stay somewhere that you don't really respect or like? I certainly wouldn't.


But I do appreciate the U.S., I think we are a great country that can get even better. Constructive criticism is fine but your attitude about America is extremely narrow and isn't what most people in this country are about.

By the way, I hope you know you Green Party folks that voted for Nader, got Bush elected.


Vice President Gore(whom I voted for) would have easily won the Electoral College, the whole Florida voting fiasco would have been irrelevant, if Nader had not run for the Green Party. It is estimated by voter surveys that better than 2/3rds of Nader voters would have voted for Gore, less than one third for Bush. What gave the Bush the election was not so much the Supreme Court decision on the Florida recount situation, which was questionable, but the Nader voters.


That is why I find it ironic that you complain so bitterly about Bush and would praise the military if they got rid of him. You folks got him elected!!!
And is there a difference on environmental issues and poverty issues between Bush and Gore? Contrary to what Nader says, there is a difference. It does matter.

Gore, I'm certain, would have been much more aware of poverty and the environment and done more constructive things about it than the Bush administration has.

Like Brent said, keep voting for someone unelectable like the Green Party, and watch right- wing Republicans keep getting elected not only to the Presidency but also to the Congress and Statehouses. Be a self-righteous, hypercritical, cynical loser, see where it gets you or the country.

It happened with the Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, France, U.S.S.R., England...It will happen with America, one day. The Earth dosen't care and time surely dosen't care. In 5 billion years, the sun will grow into a super massive red star engulfing the terrestial planets.

All great empires must come to an end.

Lady Maria and Hal:

I wouldn't worry much about Aoecean or whatever this 3 year old calls himself. If it wasn't for the American military, we would be living under either Nazism or Communism and he wouldn't even be able to express his juvenile opinions. Green Parties are not allowed in totalitarian States like Iraq, Iran, the East European countries under Communism,etc. This fella Aeocean would be in jail in any totalitarian State for his views. .He is just a little punk who knows next to nothing.
And Aeocean, if you have ever been to a totalitarian State, and I have, America is most certainly a free and democratic country. We do pretty much as we please within reason and have a better standard of living, even in our poor districts , than people do in a totalitarian state.


And it is highly unlikely that Aeocean grew up in a low income neighborhood. studies and statistics show most anti-war people with his views are from privledged elite families. It is also highly unlikely he had a relative die in Vietnam. Most anti-war protestors and Green Party people do not serve in the military nor do their family members. In fact most of them don't know personally many people that have served in the military. This punk is a con artist, it's easy to read his type. Otherwise he would have more respect for military people and more understanding of the difficult, dangerous, and sometimes necessary work they have to do.

It is so very easy to defeat the anti-war, anti-America, blame the Western world types in a debate. It's like stealing candy from a baby.

Point 1--- NO BLOOD FOR OIL!
Right. after we defeat Saddam and the Iraqi thugs we are going to invade the other 27 countries that are major oil producers. Of course. It's only about oil.
Point2--- George W. is trying to get revenge for his Daddy. To finish the job on 'ol Saddam.
George Sr. initially tried to talk Bush Junior out of going into Iraq, he wasn't particularily enthused about the idea.
Point 3---- Why is it that every credible study shows that 90% of Americans agree with the Green Party on many environmental issues and want more development of alternative cars and energy. Yet the Greens, on average, get only 2 to 5 % of the vote. Even in Western Europe, where the Greens are well known and publisized , in indeed the world's most liberal "progressive" countries, they only get about 5% of the vote, (with the exception of Germany where they get appox. 10%).
Because the Greens are incompetant and unrealistic. They have no idea of how an economy runs, thgey exagerate and use inflated stats on the environment and they are weak on military and foreign affairs and take freedom for granted and indeed sometimes sympathise with dictatorships and pander to them(example-the Communists throughout the Cold War). Even in the these liberal countries the Greens get nowhere. On economic, social and national defense issues they are assuredly losers, even if people have a desire for more alternative energy and cars. Unless the Greens grow up and deal with overall reality they will never win anything.
.......then again maybe they don't want to win, they are maybe content to be losers.
Point 4-----the people of Iraq would be better off under Saddam if ewe hadn't intervened, or Saddam would have been overthrown from within, or the U.N. would have gotten him out of office and closed his terrorist canps and restored human rights to Iraq.
...............REALLY.
yeah right.
we didn't need to fight the second world war either or the Cold war against the Commies. All of those totalitarian regimes would have majically gone away by themselves or with the League of Nations/U.N..
Point 5------ history caused Saddam,etc. The Versailles Treaty, western Colonialism,etc.
NICE TRY. most of the world's nations are artificial constructs, multi-ethnic places, like Iraq. Most countries lived under colonialism of one sort or another. Did they all end up like Iraq with Saddam?
The successful economies and societies of East Asia as an example? History is a poor excuse for a dictator like Saddam. Their is no excuse for that sort of government.

I would say NICE TRY Aeoceon, but it is too easy to defeat your arguments. You're partially-educated, you don't get the complete picture. My guess is you are either quite young and politically naive or one of these left over old leftist, airhead, burntout types.

Aoecean Glyvxx I hide it hard to beleive that all 24% of the nation that doesn't support the war in Iraq live around you but as the say freaks of a feather... The previous poster was refering to the oppressed of people of Iraq. While on that, people who read or watch sources other than the major news outlets have know all of those horrible things for years!

Aoecean? Since you had a relative die in war you hate all wars? you know what... I could and would respect you to the max for that stance! But as with you and most like you this is far less about the war and much more about your sour grapes over who our president is!!!!!!!! You and your can not even speak about the war without bashing Bush and crying about the last election! Back to the polls... SINCE 9/11 AT LEAST 65% OF THE NATION, CONSISTENLY, IS TICKLED PICK THAT G W BUSH IS THE MAN IN CHARGE!!!!!!!! Cry yourself to sleep every night until you get another Dem in the white house but until then the real men of this world will protect you and your crack neighbors!

News organizations sell entertainment not information.

Aoecean,

Everyone knows you are a joker and a clown, you make a point of letting everyone on this board know that.
The question is, are you good for anything more intelligent than that?

The young men your age that put their lives at risk in the military freeing an incredibly abused and oppressed people (who have lived through a hell under Saddam that you and I in America could never imagine) are worthy of respect.

With the ridiculous, childish statements you make, are you?

You need to grow up a little and realize life isn't a joke and no we shouldn't kill our president that is absurd and you are not cute. You are only showing your immaturity.
I'm sure you can be a little more grownup and a little less of a smart alec if you try.

In all sincerity,
Maria

I was watching the news tonight on cable.
The information coming out of Iraq about Saddam's regime is even worse than anyone imagined.

One of the things one of Saddam's sons did was he would use Iraqi women for sex and then when he was through with them, he would cover them with honey and have starving, vicious breeds of dogs kill the women and eat the women alive!!!!! He got a kick out of that!!!!!

The many torture chambers in Iraq have been shown to the media by the Iraqi people who were tortured there also. Terrible!!!

Saddam ordered the murder of hundreds of thousands of people, tried to kill off one of his minority groups,( the Kurds), stole billions of dollars that was suppose to go to his poor people through the U.N." Oil for Humanitarian Assistance Project" (and the Allies and the U.N. are trying to trace this money now in Arab countries and in Swiss bank accounts), supported suicide bombers, had terrorist camps that we discovered in northern Iraq, used poison gas on the Kurds,etc,etc.etc.etc.etc......

After all of this evidence that is coming out about Saddam and his henchman it is becoming clear that he is one of the most sadistic, demented, brutal, unusually cruel dictators of all time, in a league with Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Edi Amin.

There is no grey area with someone like Saddam, just like there is no grey area with these other brutal dictators. He was a sadist, a mass murder, a thief of the worst sort who ripped off and killed HIS OWN PEOPLE AND OTHERS, a sick, demented meglomaniac, and so were his sons and his buddies.

Of course we were right to have his regime removed, just like we were right in World War II!

And the fact we supported him in the war against the brutal, twisted, religious fanatic dictators of Iran in the 1980s is beside the point. We didn't know Saddam would be this bad in the 1980s; most of his crimes he hadn't yet done at that time. We found out later what he was up to, much more information came later about what he was doing, and would do,to people.
And if this was about oil, how come we are not attacking many other countries with much oil?( as others have pointed out on these threads).

Regardless, it is a very good thing that we got rid of his government, VERY GOOD!
To say otherwise insults humanity.

When it comes to Hitler, or Pol Pot, or Saddam Hussein there is no grey area. There is no peaceful way to get rid of such a dictator. Only an idiot or a very small child would think otherwise. Saddam and his buddies would continue to lie, deceive and murder, and the U.N.(who never has never stopped any dictator or genocide, as others have also mentioned on these threads)would obviously never have stopped the brutal Iraqi regime. He was playing for time so he could survive to brutalize more people and continue to steal from his people.

History will prove us right, as Prime Minister Tony Blair said, just as it proved us right to fight brutal Nazis in World War II. This war is a no-brainer for sure. Of course we are right about this war.

In fact with what we are finding out, (and seeing the joy on the faces of the Iraqi people as millions of them are delighted to get rid of Saddam's brutal regime, and cheering, singing and dancing as they destroy his pictures and statues is delightful to watch their joy), we were VERY right to fight this war! I am so happy for the Iraqi people! And so proud of our soliders!!!!!

One last thing, the civilian deaths. Most of the civilian deaths were due to Saddam's "Human sheild policy". The bloodshed is COMPLETELY, 100% , Saddam fault and his regime's fault!

We were right to do this; the civilized, democratic world is allways right to get rid of this type of dictator!
We should have done it after the first Gulf War but at least we did it now! And I hope Saddam and his buddies are as dead as they can be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Isla Q. wrote: The world is so NOT black and white! But I do agree this is not the place to discuss the war and everything that goes with it. Let's make it a hair board again!

If you would rather not talk about it then don't otherwise I feel just fine about adding my 2 cents worth... after 12 years the world of Iraq is VERY black and white.

I guess I have had just had my fill of such comments and respond to something someone eles wrote here! Beleive me I have plenty more to say but because this sholud be about hair I stopped as soon as I could. I'm not sorry for my opinion but I am sorry if it offends you.

Whatever Hal.