GLs Lightening Process--Update

I apologize in advance for this, but I have been told many times it's impossible to lighten dark brown or black hair to pale blonde without bleach or peroxide--by scientists and hairdressers alike. So I assumed such chemicals are used in the GLs depigmentation process.

However, I've just been informed, by another source, that if the hair soaks for 15 to 20 days in a solution, it is possible to lighten it using a milder form of peroxide than orginally thought. It's still peroxide, but much gentler and apparently nondamaging to the cuticle. Again, it wasn't my intention to spread false info. about this, and I apologize. Here's the explanation (below). :)

"I saw the site and went through it carefully - it seems they remove all the pigment (melanin) from the hair not with a bleach (which would be sodium persulfate ) but with something that works very slowly since they soak the hair in it for 15 to 20 days and from all the tests I have seen on lifting/removing melanin, the slower the process the better condition the hair is left in - this could be a very mild peroxide solution which could be acidic and not act like a bleach at all - they claim it leaves the cuticle undamaged - I don't see this being an unreasonable claim - if you soak a black hair in just a solution of dilute peroxide for a long time it will certainly lighten and does so without swelling the cuticle which is where a lot of damage comes from - it would also do it in an acid state not alkaline
they also say they remove all the pigment/melanin rather than break it up - bleach does break up pigment but does leave it behind inside the hair - this process they use could remove the melanin since it is over such a long period of time -
those I have talked with that have felt the hair say it feels like healthy virgin hair and that is quite an achievement."

"when you have the ability to soak something for a very long time - this could never be done on the head for obvious reasons but this could work to achieve what they are after -a colorist friend of mine who is always playing with things has soaked hair in peroxide only and also in ammonia only and learned that the peroxide (as you have always said) is what lightens the hair and that the ammonia is what causes the damage they don't give the formula of what they use but it could certainly be one of the many oxides that are available that are very gentle yet with some time can get the job done with no damage to the hair-
think 'oxyclean'."

You may be onto something there Jenny. I dont do blonde. Ive been every color under the sun and Ive tried blonde a few times but I look like a ghost with blonde hair. I get the most compliments when I have either black or red hair.

An experiment would be easy to do. Buy some cheap human hair, have one bowl with pure peroxide, one bowl with a 2:1 ratio (peroxide and water) and one with maybe a 2:2 ratio, put equal amounts of hair in each one and check the progress everyday and see which one lightens the best. Once youve determined which ratio works you could buy more expensive human hair and lighten it.

Okay, This is something I will be willing to be the tester here.

It would be best to do the testing on virgin hair as all cheap hair is already processed to kingdom come!!

I have quite a lot of Indian cuticle remi hair (black/dark brown colors) that I will be up for doing all the testing with different solutions.

All I ask from you DIY'ers/Stylists is the solution/% ideas and the ratios. What you think I should try on each one, and I'll conduct the tests at home over a 20 day period and I'll report the findings to you.

I just need to go get some basins for each solution we try.

What do you think as far as solutions go, are we just talking peroxide/ratios or some other solutions?

Do you think they would add conditioners in the solution?
Maybe I can put some infusium 23 into the mix........just a thought.

Would love some input from you ladies..........I'm totally up for the challenge!!

Yes, this is quite a breakthrough. Where's Oly? I owe her an apology, too.... I wonder if it would work to take some raw black hair (if anyone has any) and leave it soaking in something similar to what the source has suggested.

By the way, if anyone's interested in asking follow-up questions about this, the thread is about halfway down this page: http://www.network54.com/Forum/127834 You'll see a question from Jenny_RR and responses from Rick (the chemist) and rc (who I'm assuming is a chemist, too).

Incidentally, I was also told once that Bohyme uses a water-based process to treat its hair. I didn't make the connection at the time--having never heard of this method before--but perhaps they're doing something similar, too.

I only wish this could be done to our real hair--LOL! Can you imagine? Damage-free lightening? :)

Okay, I posted a follow up question to rick and rc for any ideas on the testing part.
Does anyone here know what other oxides/percentages that could be gentle enough for this process?
Thanks....

I'm ready...... got the hair, basins, gloves ......I just need the formulas....haha!!

Oh, Jenny..kewl, because after I posted it I thought I should have made a new post on the front page. I was going to wait a few days, then post again if no response. Thanks for that.

I was able to contact 12 out of 13 cashmere testing labs. Three of the e-mails returned not found. So we have 9 companies that can possibly shed some light on this process.
I will let you all know what they have to say as they respond.

Thanks

OK. We got some responses:

From Rick the chemist:
"I'd suggest 10- or 20-volume developer as is. Don't add any color. The mixture should be slightly acidic, as it is in the bottle. If you wish, add half a teaspoonful of vinegar or (better) club soda."

From RC:
"I have been a colorist for 20+ years and developed many products along the way while working with great chemists - this experiment could have so many possibilities that I would not even know where to begin -
there are 20 or more oxidizers that could work and they can be of varying strengths and can be made to react so differently by just changing one little thing - even with just hydrogen peroxide the choices would be endless -
they could change the vats every hour - every day - go from stronger to weaker or reverse - temperature adjustments, buffers, etc - just way too many factors to even guess where to start -
also in the world of color there can be 100 different yet correct ways of achieving the same end result
we work with hair swatches all the time and you just start where you think a good place to start would be and record all that you did and the results and then start altering things - and enjoy the journey"

That's great srr!! Would love to hear how that works out.....!!

I'm so into this little project. Hey, anything to find a better long lasting extension would be a plus from most of the crap that's being sold out there.

I had no idea Bohyme went through a similar process. That's good to know.

This was my first response from the 9 companies I was able to contact:


Dear Sir, We are researchers of the ISMAC-CNR ( Biella, Italy ).
We are working in a project about hair sample. We determine the quantity of products of oxidative degradation ( PTCA) of the eumelanic pigment for detecting subject less protected and thus with a higher risk of developing skin tumours.

We send two original articles that describe our project. In the second paper you can find information about depigmantation of kashmir. We used it on sample hair. It is carried out with hydrogene peroxide in an alkaline medium, in the presence of iron (II) ion as a catalyst. It is used in the textile sector for depigmenting keratinic fibres. We thinck that these papers are important for your work.

This is process from paper 2:

Depigmentation Process. The depigmentation process consisted of a mordanting step followed
by a bleching step and was carried out at the following experimental conditions:
Mordanting Rinsing Bleaching
FeSO4°E7H2O: 3.7 g/l
Na2S2O4: 1 g/l
HCHO (35-40%): 3 g/l
L.R.: 1:20-1:50
pH(HCO2H): 3
1h 85°C
Warm water 20 min
room temperature
water 20 min
Na4P2O7: 10 g/l
EDTA: 2 g/l
H2O2: 1-8 vol
L.R.: 1:20-1:50
pH: 9
30 min 85°C
Different concentrations of hydrogen peroxide in the bleaching bath were tested.
Sample A (16.5 µm) was depigmented at a fibre liquor ratio of 1:20 using an Ahiba –Turbocolor
100 Laboratory dyeing apparatus. Concentrations of 2-4 and 8 vol of hydrogen peroxide
were used.
Sample B (17.1 µm) was depigmented at a fibre liquor ratio of 1:50 in flasks placed in a
thermostatically controlled shaking water bath (Grant OLS200). Concentrations of 1-2-3-4-5-
6-7-8 vol of hydrogen peroxide were used.




Okay, I get the last line but I need a translator for the rest of it!! They use much lower peroxide levels
Feel free anyone to translate here............