There is a fine, but definable, line between opinion and fact, especially on the internet. I was looking something up on Wikipedia, and the article was headed by a warning "This Article Contains Weasel Words".
In short, If the author of an article states an opinion as fact, Wikipedia heads the article with a warning. The example they give is:
"The New York Yankees are the greatest team in baseball history"
That is a "weasel" in the opinion of Wikipedia. They suggest rewriting that statement as follows:
"Most baseball experts consider The New York Yankees to be the great team in baseball history due to the fact they have won 26 World Series, more than any other team."
So instead of saying "no man will notice a woman with a short haircut" say, "I and most men I know will not notice a woman with short hair because many of use believe women look better with long hair".
I don't believe in absolutes. Absolutes lead to intolerance, and if there is one thing I cannot stand, it's intolerance! I don't lose sleep over this, it is, after all, an internet forum. I do get annoyed when someone posts an opinion as fact. I have probably been guilty of that in the past myself!
OK, enough ranting.
fatmoogas
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I think the problem with Bob is that he seems to feel a zealotry in the cause of long hair that most of us reserve for more important things.
Having said that, I still don't think he's a troll. According to most dictionary definitions there needs to be an element of conscious wind up or deceit for someone to be a troll. We all seem to accept that this doesn't apply in Bob's case.
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Truthfully, I feel pretty contrite about the Anja remark, Dave. I apologize, without reservation. Must have run out of my common sense pills that morning. Possibly a little anger spilled over, but after watching a Tyra Banks' ANTM rerun at my DD's recently, it was frustration at avant garde stylists who do NOT consider model's long-term interests, not Anja. Some of the models were terribly upset after undesired chops, and I couldn't blame them. (Didn't some cosmetics company fire Eva Herzigova last year when she showed up on set with a short cut? And hers wasn't really bad.) Maybe it was Anja herself who chose the original asymmetrical cut, but when I see a radical change this unusual, I suspect over-zealotry by some salon "wizard". Best, Bob
Bob,
I sincerely hope you find a way to channel your feelings in ways which do not spill over into inappropriate places. This forum is for discussion about celebrity hair, not for emotions on topics not specifically related to the hair of the celebrities being discussed. You may want to consider what other forum(s) may be better suited for expressing your thoughts and angst. [Just don't post them in the Celebrity forum. I will evaluate potential future criticisms and will respond accordingly.]
Bob S
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Truthfully, I feel pretty contrite about the Anja remark, Dave. I apologize, without reservation. Must have run out of my common sense pills that morning. Possibly a little anger spilled over, but after watching a Tyra Banks' ANTM rerun at my DD's recently, it was frustration at avant garde stylists who do NOT consider model's long-term interests, not Anja. Some of the models were terribly upset after undesired chops, and I couldn't blame them. (Didn't some cosmetics company fire Eva Herzigova last year when she showed up on set with a short cut? And hers wasn't really bad.) Maybe it was Anja herself who chose the original asymmetrical cut, but when I see a radical change this unusual, I suspect over-zealotry by some salon "wizard". Best, Bob
Edited by Bob S - September 25 2007 at 12:10am
DaveDecker
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Being repetitive and/or consistent is not prohibited. Neither is "failing" to defer to fans "on the other side of the hair-length-preference aisle." Certainly each one of us expresses our own opinions to make our thoughts known, rather than to impress others with their uniqueness.
Hal wrote:
Kensrs - you better watch out... the ice gets real thin when you speak against the protected ones!!!!!
Wow Hal, I'd like to more about this protection plan! Who gets protected, how, and by whom?
The only posts that get deleted here are spam or significant personal attacks. And the moderation team makes no apologies for members' posts within the forum.
kensrs wrote:
I am not trying to cause trouble but most boards I visit, Bob is a member of. I hate opening up EVERY thread of any celebrity or any other person to see Bob state longer hair looked better, we all get Bob has a thing for long hair but come on you don't see me going to every long haired thread on the net and state she should cut it.
Thread or forum? I am not aware of anybody trolling short hair forums with "grow it long" messages. But within a celebrity forum, where celebrities have and have had a wide variety of lengths, any opinion goes.
In general terms I agree with your comment that reading some members' posts can be frequently irritating. I will politely not name names.
kensrs wrote:
Honestly you don't need to post on every single thread. If you like long hair great visit long hair threads, if you want to say somethign occasionaly that is fine also. What Bob does though is OVERKILL.
Perhaps unfortunately for you(?), there are no specific rules here regarding frequency of comment. As much as Bob's posting frequency appears to you to be excessive, it is not so high as to clearly constitute "troublemaking" (which, by extreme example, might be posting in every thread every 10 minutes all day long).
fatmoogas wrote:
Trolling would be deliberately writing things in the hope of provoking others (flame wars, etc.). I don't believe Bob does that...
I see it as him unintentionally provoking others. I don't sense that he tries to do it, but it certainly can and does have that effect.
Hal wrote:
These posts often include statements suggesting a particular woman’s beauty has been lost because of the length of her hair. As if her hair “is” her beauty...
Hal, you have succinctly stated your observation. No matter that he and I frequently agree on hair length preferences, I also (always) find myself rolling my eyes when I read the latest instance of what you aptly describe. Sorry Bob, but it's true. Doesn't mean it isn't permitted here, though, depending on how it's stated. That's why we have discussions such as this one. It is a learning opportunity. For those who choose to reflect and reconsider.
Hal wrote:
Nearly as irritating is; if you support long hair, you are allowed to post these “pointed” responses. Even come the short hair board and do the same, yet the rest of us are not. Sorry Dave but I call it as “I” see it.
Hal, can you please provide some examples?
Quote from Bob provided by natasha:
Bob S. wrote:
It takes the focus off even the most beautiful face. If a woman wants no man to notice her, and that's fine with me, *this* cut is *perfect*.
Natasha calls this statement trolling. I do not disagree. Obviously and specifically, the "if a woman wants no man to notice her" bit. He was either very clever or very clumsy.
arch94 wrote:
Bob is not a troll...just passionate about long hair.
Arch, had you written these things about me, I would agree with its truth. But I see myself as very different from Bob. Bear in mind that a person's passion for a given hair length is not a direct reflection of their underlying character.
Bob S. wrote:
Maybe my comment about that Anja model went over the line...
Yes, it did. As a participant in this forum, you are well aware that there are men who like short hair, and you must have known that your statement as worded was false. I ask you to choose your words more carefully, lest your posts be subject to being edited by the Moderator Team, or deleted, or more.
ssjockey
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You are so right about Meg Ryan, Kramer. She's another whom we discussed. I haven't liked her hair since that abominable chick flick, "Sleepless in Seattle". But her face was always gorgeous, until now. Nose jobs are sometimes advisable, agreed, but not all that some stars are doing to themselves. Blessings, Bob
Wasn't Meg Ryan's hair long in "Sleepless in Seattle"? Her hair was short for "Top Gun", "When Harry Met Sally", "French Kiss" and "You've Got Mail", among others.
glove20
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You are so right about Meg Ryan, Kramer. She's another whom we discussed. I haven't liked her hair since that abominable chick flick, "Sleepless in Seattle". But her face was always gorgeous, until now. Nose jobs are sometimes advisable, agreed, but not all that some stars are doing to themselves. Blessings, Bob
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Few men are killed by the bayonet;many are scared by it.Bayonets should be fixed when the fire fight starts.General George Patton Jr.,War As I Knew It,1947.
Kramer
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For every Ashley Simpson of the world (her nose job was a major improvement) there seem to be dozens of Meg Ryans. Have you seen what she did to her lips? Argh. Ashley and Meg's hair has improved since their face work, but no matter how their hair looks, it can't always be the first thing you notice after plastic surgery.
Bob S
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Hal, you would not believe the number of men and women with whom I discuss hair in RL. Some women have actually asked my opinion, both before and after a change, b/c they *know* I notice. One told me that my wife is lucky to have a man who notices her! Well, I'm not certain at times about how "lucky" DW feels! (lol)
BTW, Hal, there are some real hot mamas out there driving mini-vans. (lol) But what can I tell ya'? Even if I'm not interested in the sport or art, I still enjoy seeing the women! And even tho' I don't often rave about shorter styles, it *is* rather enjoyable for me to see women who wear their short cuts well. I've complimented many personally, though you wouldn't know it here!
Any more, if I become the topic of discussion, I will PM the person instead of continuing the thread, if I think they make a solid point, (as Natasha did). I'm weary of it also. Blessings, Bob
P.S. Jenna who?? Oh yeah, I agree with you so much, Kramer, about celebs who ruin their looks with plastic surgery. Both my best bud and I independently came to that conclusion about Brooke Shields last week. Sometimes, age lines make a face look very lovely, and hers was one, IMO.
P.P.S. I'll never mention this topic again, but lingeree and swimsuit catalogues feature long haired gals almost exclusively. You can't help but notice! That doesn't mean that women with short styles are undesirable, but it says *something*, I think.
What I can say is some don't care, some like it long and some like it short. I can also say, my greater point is many of us are tired of you pushing your opinions as if you have factual data to support your fetish.
I couldn't agree more.
Edited by natasha - September 20 2007 at 5:38am
Mike46019
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Thanks Hal. PM me I can tell you about the book I got it from.
Few men are killed by the bayonet;many are scared by it.Bayonets should be fixed when the fire fight starts.General George Patton Jr.,War As I Knew It,1947.
fatmoogas
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"What I can say is some don't care, some like it long and some like it short. I can also say, my greater point is many of us are tired of you pushing your opinions as if you have factual data to support your fetish."
I drive my wife nuts. I do ask her if she did get it cut or are you growing it out. Then again I'm the one that uses Patton as my Signature. I guess I'm one heck of freak?
Few men are killed by the bayonet;many are scared by it.Bayonets should be fixed when the fire fight starts.General George Patton Jr.,War As I Knew It,1947.
That is the point Bob, you write as if you know what most, many or even lots of women or men like. I find it very hard to believe you can talk to many people about hair, esp to husband about his wife’s hair without getting a black eye or the very least labeled a freak to be avoided!
Giving your statement, I'm betting we are talking about a very small number of people that likely support your own opinions anyway.
What do you think, a woman that likes her hair long, likes it enough to go to the trouble to keep long and nice looking is going to say “I love my hair long but my husband hates it”? That is simple husband 101, “of course it love your hair and no that dress does not make you look fat”! Esp when I’m fairly sure the woman in question knows how much you like her hair.
I would venture to say most men don't care one way or the other. We have all heard women say did this or that to my hair and my husband didn't even notice. Can I take from that most men don't care?
What I can say is some don't care, some like it long and some like it short. I can also say, my greater point is many of us are tired of you pushing your opinions as if you have factual data to support your fetish.
It is no more boring for me to read “simple I like its” than to read yet another Bob S post about how yet another raving beauty should be banished to mini van duty forever.
If you think this star or that star is no longer hot, say so but please stop telling us in your opinion no one will buy her records, watch her play tennis or tune in to her news cast because the length of her hair!Such comments serve only to remind me that most of us regular posters are freaks that are anything remotely close to the norm.
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Bob S wrote:
Blessings, Bob
Hal, you would not believe the number of men and women with whom I discuss hair in RL. Some women have actually asked my opinion, both before and after a change, b/c they *know* I notice. One told me that my wife is lucky to have a man who notices her! Well, I'm not certain at times about how "lucky" DW feels! (lol)
