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Uzma:

You wrote that poverty is increasing in the Muslim world. This is true, although not entirely because of the reasons you state.
Most parts of the world are racing ahead of the Muslims economically. Some people believe this is because most of the world is now democratic and most Muslim countries aren't.
I don't think that is it. China is not democratic and it has greatly reduced poverty and has high economic growth.
Some people believe the population has grown too fast in the Muslim world and that is the reason for the increase in poverty. That is only a partial explanation. The U.S., some Latin American countries and some Far East countries have grown just as fast in population in the past two decades as many Muslim countries.
Nor is it "American Imperialism". Americans influence everyone everywhere : socially, politically and economically. Yet many of these nations we influence, that we are "Imperialistic" to, are thriving more than ever with great increases in longevity, job growth and standard of living.

The problem, in a nutshell , in the Muslim World, particullarily in the Mid-East and Mediterranean rim, is the lack of diversity of economy. The Mid-east is too much of a one note Johnny economically. It is far too dependent on oil revenues, and the Mid-East unlike for example the East Asian nations, and to some degree even India and Latin America , have not developed a diverse and broadbased industrial/technological, high tech job and business base. Your politics aren't completely offbase Uzma but you won't get far just ranting and raving about the Zionest Israelis and the Imperialist Americans. That is really very old stuff. Most of the world has moved way beyond that and is involved in the new international economy and doesn't even worry about what America, much less Israel, thinks or does.
Like a Chinese government official I heard on the radio today said when asked about the Mid-East circumstances . He said "we don't really have a dog in that fight". Most countries and people in the world don't let whatever good or nasty things America is doing at the moment really phase them. They are busy with their own creative ideas; their own businesses' jobs, families,etc........ The old left wing "blame the imperialist" rhetoric won't get you far in solving the Muslim world's problems.
A more diverse economy will.

Interesting political posting from you folks..........

There always has been and always will be war. I see no evidence of that changing. Not that we are at war all the time, but it is part of what we do, along with many other things. It has never been different. After all, human beings are a kind of animal. The fact we can play music, build buildings, or program computers doesn't change our basic emotional/physical makeup. To some degree we are programmed towards hostility along with our other emotions.

Power competition and arraingments,( and sometimes conflicts), are inherent in us .There always has been and always will be complex political/social/economic problems that change from time to time.
Saddam was considered the lesser of two evils in the Iraq/Iran war by the West. Later after a variety of things happened and the political climate changed in ways that are very complex and that I could write for 100 pages about, including internal domestic political struggles in both Iraq and in the U.S. Congress, he had a falling out with the U.S.. . And it goes way beyond some of the simplistic statements made here.

Politics are in flux a little like human relationships. You can be in love with your spouse and two years later want to kill them and end up getting divorced. Been there done that.
Germany and Japan were Americas bitterest enemies in the 1940s. We lost 500,000 men fighting them. By 1960 they were some of our staunchest allies.
Personally I admire the Arabs more than some of the western Europeans like the French and Germans. The Arabs, in many ways, are more like Americans than some of our allies in western Europe. Arabs are more family orientated and have more kids than western Europeans. So do Americans . Arabs are generally religious and have a high ratio of Mosque attendance percentagewise just as Americans have a high percentage of churchgoers compared to western Europe. Arabs are generally more conservative than western Europeans in their social views . Americans are also generally more conservative than other western countries. In fact before 9/11 occured the conservative Republican Party in the U.S worked Arab neighborhoods hard for votes because they liked their conservative attitudes. Many Arabs vote Republican, much more than some ethnic groups.

Today we regard the very liberal societies of western Europe as friends and allies but this may not last. Americans, despite being mostly Christian , really have a mind set much more like the Arab world than the western European world. We believe in democracy but we really are pretty conservative, even many of our Democratic Party people would be considered conservative in Europe.
That is another reason that Americans are drawing closer to Latin America than western Europe. The Latins have more conservative social views than the Europeans. It's not just money that attractes nations and cultures to each other and determines political co-operation.
My prediction is that 10 years or so from now the politics/social/economic circumstances will change again and America will be much closer not only to Latin America but also to the conservative Arab world than to the liberal European world that most Americans (outside of a few liberal areas on our coasts) can't relate that much to.
Every survey indicates that Americans have trouble relating to the agnostic religious and liberal social views of Europeans. It is obvious that Americans are gradually pulling away from western Europe and more towards conservative societies. I personally don't think the Nato Alliance will last much longer.
Of course I could be wrong.

I know one thing for certain though and I have been around long enough to know this: ........the explanations given by either right wing or left wing idealists are usually only partial truths. The situation is usually much more complex than that.

Sophie

Please don't misunderstand me.
I am NOT referring to the American people.
I know the American people want to just get on and live their lives happily and peacefully and not bother anyone else.

I am talking about those who are playing the "great game". The power behind the politics.

No blame attaches to the innocent.
Innocents were massacred on 9-11 as were innocents massacred in the holocaust as are innocents slowly being killed-off in Israel.

We let the so-called leaders take over the world and rule over us. They lord their power over us.
Our position is deep weakness and ignorance.

It is similar to the position of slaves, except that we have material comforts and freedom that we can do nothing of real consequence with to appease our sense of entrapment. Whole nations are anaesthesized by TV, shopping, dare I say it ...Hair Talk Forums....weapons of mass distraction.
We live our lives uncounsciously, safe within the protective dreams that are spun for us.

Our error/mistake/responsibility is that when the wake-up call comes, we don't want to know. We don't want our comfort shattered by the realization that while we sleep, atrocities are funded with our money and committed in our name.

Western Europe is developing into a European Union.
The individual contries within this union do not have the kinds of foreign policy (UK excepted) that are going to create enemies. Peace is a pre-requisite of union and a sign of civility, not stupidity. A sign that security will arise through diplomacy and the application of justice. These are honourable goals.
On the practical side, in terms of trade, one of the objectives of having a single currency (the Euro) is to increase trade by and from the countries that share that currency.
With regard to oil, it is better to have good relationships (political & trade) with the Middle-East than antagonise them by interference in their political affairs.
With regard to trade with the US, there are too many conditions attached. We had rather deal with the eastern world - and are increasingly doing so.
Bravo the European Union.

I do not believe the US are taking Iraq to war (a) for it’s oil (b) to liberate the Iraqi people from the dictatorship of SH. Remember the “axis of evil” speech on 12-Sep-2001. The list of US targets was read out by Bush and he left no one in any doubt that he was going after these countries. Being the world super-power, who was going to take him on? “You’re either with us or against us”. No discussion, no evidence, no moral justification. No wonder they burn the US flag. No wonder they burn effigies of Bush (and now Blair).

Funny how it was the US & UK who created Israel. Funny how they fed, watered and otherwised propped up the evil that is SH. He is their invention. They created the monster they now mean to destroy. And so they should. Here are the keys.
(1) You create a dictator that will keep the Mid-East in turmoil for 20 years. You give him weapons, money and whatever support he needs. You sit back and watch the massacre. No blood on your hands, you say. It’s those fanatical fundamentalists.
(2) You create “contractual agreements” with the leader of key tribes in the Mid-East. You promise them power over huge land masses. You get their oil cheap and sell them your materialist ideology. You install your weapons of mass destruction, distraction and deception in the lands, homes and hearts. You will soon say: “They are not democracies – therefore we have the right to topple them”.
(3) Over a period of 30 years and after 68 UN resolutions have been flouted, Israel has the most powerful army in the Mid-East. It is a democracy, an ally, our friend, you say. You overlook and take out of circulation the facts, the death toll on each side. The generations who are growing poorer and poorer. The generations who are encroaching on the land and blood of others. You don’t use the term religious fundamentalists here. They are your friends, your allies. In fact, you will soon say that Israel is the only democracy in the Mid-East. You will conquer the Mid-East and hand it to Israel. You can do this. No one can stop you, and you will.

Now, just imagine if this happens, what will the world do? What can it do? The US is sooooo strong. The UK knows this but our “leaders” know the US agenda. They have taken the “with us or against us” message to heart.
So, who will win? Will the liars and hypocrites win?
Does Right have a hope against Might?
Can the ordinary person, whose opinion is dependant on what they are fed by the media even decide who is right or wrong? We are sold our opinions, we are even sold counter-arguments and their nicely worked out solutions.

As for the US imperialist agenda, those who refute the US is behaving in this manner need to convince me that the overt control of the World Bank, tied-aid, enforced trade embargoes, neo-colonialism via installed leadership, food sanctions….and I can go on all night and give you examples….are not the actions of an imperialist. The US stomps on the world. That is why it is hated by anyone who has a sense of self-worth and honour.

In terms of “ridiculous and immature behaviour”, the US has said that the display of US PoWs was inhumane and in contravention of the Geneva Convention. When suggested that the US was being hypocritical, a US government official (On Channel 4 news today) started moaning. When Jon Snow (the commentator) started talking about 600 prisoners in Guatanamo who were paraded and displayed with blindfolds, shackles on their hands and feet and plastic gags, the response from the American was “but they were not PoWs, they were non-military combatants. They were not in uniform”.
Ha Ha Ha. So they weren’t military, therefore no PoW rights, they aren’t civilians, so no civil rights (no trial) and obviously they aren’t human – so no human rights.
I am sorry for the US and Iraqi military personnel who have been taken prisoner. But those 600 in Guatanamo are in a league of their own. Their families don’t know where they are or what will become of them.
Arrogant injustice is the act of an imperialist and a dictator.
I hear you Bush and Blair with your big boots coming stomping. The bullies have entered the playground.
They are counting on us all to be cowards.

FWIW, Saddam Hussein is not a socialist. If he is anything other than a meglomaniac despot, he is an national-socialist, which is something of a different order entirely.

Beatnik Guy,

Not all Western Europeans hate America, and I'm sure there are many good people there, but A.C. is right, our future is not with Europe, and we are doing much more trade with Canada, Latin America, China and Japan.

And NATO really is no longer necessary for the U.S. to be involved with.
Europe really does have to, completely, defend themselves.

And of course we should not rely on the unstable Arab countries for oil. Alternative cars pollute less anyway.
It's time to get these cars on the market!

I could spend time disagreeing with much of what you say, point by point, A.C, but I won't. Suffice to say I think that you manifestly know very little about Europe - or how people there regard the US. I've spent a lot of time there, have you?

(And FWIW, I'm in England - and you know litttle about this country either...certainly much less than I do about the US, which I've also visited 3 times since 9/11).

PS: With reference to your first post, Melba, I speak languages other than English. And I do like the English language.

Parlez vous Francais?
Parlo Italiano?
Urdu may baat karo?
Qul Arabi?

But hey, the internet language is English and I'm not a language fascist.

PPS: Lay off Kintaro.
That fine young man is entitled to his freely express his opinion. Should we not encourage the next generation in developing their characters and thoughts? Why put him down?
He was only saying that you did not have to lower yourself by shameful speech in order to get your message across.
That's a good and positive opinion.
That is how I would want my son to conduct himself.
Wisdom out of the mouths of babes...........

Kimtaro, you are a little 18 year old weirdo punk. I don't need any advice from you. I am older than you I am married and have children , and work, and no more about life in the tippy tip of my little finger than you will ever know ya little oddball!

And Uzma I certainly don't need your forgiveness you are NOT THE LORD JESUS! AND YOU WERE THE ONE THAT WAS UNCIVILIZED AND TALKIN BOUT HAVIN A WORLD WAR!!! NOT ME!
At least you are honest Uzma you say you are only livin in England for economic reasons you have no loyalty for England and don't consider yoself a Brit. That is the problem with Muslims. They think they are special that they are better than everyone else that they don't need to do nothin for the society they live in. Black Americans we got our own culture too just like the Irish ,the Mexicans, and the Polish , but we still have loyalty to America. We considered ourselfes Americans. Thats what make you Muslims different you are stuck up people that consider the rest of us Infadels or whatever you call the non-Muslim people that you consider non-human.You Muslims Arabs in the Sudan killed 2 million black Christians mostly innocent men ,women ,and kids. You killed innocent civilians at the WorldTrade Towers. You killed innocent Hindu civilians in India. Yet our president and the generals said today that the war in Iraq is going slower because we are tryin not to kill Muslim civilians. Why are we trying not to kill Muslim civilians? They would kill us!
The Muslims are taught that other religions are Infadels, unworthy of life if you ain't Muslim. That is why Muslims have Jihad, the holy war against non-Muslims. That is why when you say hi to a Muslim or smile at them they just give you a dirty look. They consider you an Infadel, you are no good to them.
We should just fight the Muslims like the Muslims fought in the Sudan when they killed 2 million black Christians civilians. Im sure we would lose less soliders if we just fought the war 100 percent instead of tryin to protect civilians that would kill us if they had a chance!

REMEMBER MUSLIM WOMEN> ALLWAYS COVER!!!!!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!