Well, I know Dave doesn't need my support, but he is the moderator and his hard work should be appreciated by all. I've been the target of a few of his lectures, but so what? *Someone* has to draw the guidelines! The kind of board where the trashing of those whose POV's differ from yours is out there somewhere, IV. They are juvenile, but as everyone knows, adolescence extends indefinitely for some folks.
No, I don't think that many stylists support one's desire to grow long hair. In fact, I think that most will overtly or covertly undermine the client's yearning for it. One never hears a bunch of guys complaining that a woman's hair is "overpowering" or "unprofessional". Tresses are so beautiful on most women that I suspect that for monetary reasons, a sort of "groupthink" brainwashing takes place in beauty schools, possibly to the point where new licensees actually believe that proseletyzing for funky short cuts actually is doing clients a favor! Blessings, Bob
brangwaen
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i'm beginning to develop a phobia about going into salons! LoL.
my hair is about 38" long... and they all come running. stylists & clients alike.
people love to touch it and play with it... and then suggest ways to cut it!
go figure!
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Tresses are so beautiful on most women that I suspect that for monetary reasons, a sort of "groupthink" brainwashing takes place in beauty schools, possibly to the point where new licensees actually believe that proseletyzing for funky short cuts actually is doing clients a favor!
Ya think? Why do you suppose it takes 1500 hours to train a new stylist? A: Because that counter-intuitive message is so difficult to accept.
brangwaen wrote:
i'm beginning to develop a phobia about going into salons! LoL. my hair is about 38" long... and they all come running. stylists & clients alike. people love to touch it and play with it... and then suggest ways to cut it! go figure!
Welcome, brangwaen! Your hair sounds lovely! Sounds like you're experiencing your own twilight zone of irony.
Not any I've been to! My hair isn't even long at all compared to the pictures I've seen here. Mine is just below my shoulders but the ends are kind of thin and wispy, and I have to admit that it really doesn't look that good, but I'm just hesitant to cut it. I always hear things like So, how much do I get to cut off today? Or, How long are you going to hold on to this stuff? It doesn't really suit you very well. You need a short cut to bring out your high cheekbones. Why do you still have long hair? If you are serious about your career, you really need to cut it short. Then my dear sweet mom: Why don't you cut your hair? That mop really covers up your beautiful face.
The pressures are really nasty.
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Dave, you are just incredible! I love your answers. Can you imagine a stylist saying to someone with short hair "So, when are you gonna grow this stuff out?" I don't see people with short hair being hassled the same way. I think your last answer was really what I needed to hear.
You: I like my hair as it is. Why won't you let me wear it as I want to?
Actually I don't think I do want to cut my hair short. I'm still glad I did get a couple of inches cut off, because the ends really did need it, but it's my hair, and I own it, so why should I have to bend to the wishes of others? Thank you very much to you and everyone here. You are a great support!!
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Dave - great (and funny) post. Thanks for those apt responses. However, I don't think I'll be needing them in the future, as I have sworn off going to a stylist or salon for awhile. I think you know my experiences have all been pretty bad. Generally the stylist says something negative about both my color and my waves/curls. My sister (whose hair is similar to mine) goes to a good stylist down in the L.A. area - she calls him "the hair whisperer." I may have to check him out sometime when I'm visiting her!
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Anne, you got that right. It's hard, no, impossible for me to imagine a stylist making such a complaint.
Glad to hear that we were of help to you.
Miss Rini... no need to worry, you've always been very kind and respectful to me.
Special Kitty, thank you. Sometimes, even when you don't go to salons, criticisms float your way from well-intentioned (or, not so well-intentioned) acquaintances, family, colleagues, or strangers. So it can't hurt to keep a few possible responses in the mental back pocket for future use. Your sister's stylist sounds like a winner. Details, please, if you ever visit with this "hair whisperer."
oh, and PurpleBubba is always so supportive, he's a stylist, right?
Hi SK,
I went to Cosmetology School but I only went 800 of the 1500 hours so I'm not a stylist. I don't know if or when I will finish.
and while I'm at it I'll answer the thread.
I don't recall any stylists trying to suggest that I get my hair cut. Other than when I walked in and sometimes they would ask if I was cutting it. Often times it was someone other than my stylist who was asking so they could have been a customer and not a stylist.
For me the story goes like this. I walk into a salon. I wait for someone to ask me if they can help me. Because often times there is no receptionist. I then say I'd like a half inch trim. I'm not even in the chair yet and I've said what I want specifically. Then when it's my turn they ask me again and I repeat that I want a half inch trim. I was not very picky about it. If they had done a whole inch I probably wouldn't have noticed. All of my visits were decent and I was given what I asked for. Or close enough that I didn't notice anything wrong.
I have not had a salon trim since 2000 because I now use Feye's Self Trimming.
Note: When I was visiting salons my hair was somewhere between 20 & 25 inches. I'm now around 36" and although I'm tempted to give a salon a try I am hesitant to do so because my hair is longer. And back when I was going before salons did not know about these hair donation charities. I'm sure that if I tried a salon now they would have at least one person who would ask if I'm donating. And I have no plans to do so at this time.
Oh, many of the stylists I've been to try to either convince me to chop my hair off (it's healthy and falls to my butt) or cut more than I specified. That drives me crazy cause I love, love my long hair. It's even kept me away from the chair for months and months at a time. Now I'll only let a long haired stylist touch me. Luckily, my new hairstylist has long hair she cherishes also so she respects my wishes. I think it takes a long-haired girl to understand how special long hair is. That's another reason I loved going to male stylists before I found Kristine. Men don't dare cut off more than you want!
<3 Danielle XOX
current hair: down, nice and wavy thanks to the braid!
You may not have met any, but they definitely exist, because I've known a few! In fact, I've probably had more male stylists cut more off than I've asked than female stylists. One guy I used to go to really did a great job at cutting hair, but no matter what I said, he always did what he wanted. I usually asked for 1/2" trims. Sometimes he thought that's what my hair needed, so he only cut that much, but other times, he thought the ends were much too thin, so he'd cut off 2 or 3 inches, no kidding. When I asked him about it, he said that the ends were damaged and that I needed more cut off. Just my opinion, but I think the attitude of the person, rather than the gender or length of hair, plays a bigger role in how the stylist respects longer hair.
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I can't take the negativity in this thread after reading it.
So many negative opinions on HairStylists it makes me sad.
As a Professional HairStylist I am going to toss my 2 cents into this thread.
First off there are bad doctors, bad dentists, bad contractors, bad employees are in every single profession out there. I'd be interested to know where many of your bad experiences with HairStylists come from? Were they from Chain Salons like Fantastic Sam's, Hair Cuttery, SuperCuts, Regis, Smart Style......I bet many of them were!
In those chain salons their pay and incentives are based on the total dollars they do for the week.....
$0 - $500 = 40% commission
500-$999 - 45% commission
1000-1500 - 50% commission
and so forth.....
Most stylists are young and fail to see the big picture and the long term goal of building their clientel, taking their time and then moving onto booth rental or their own salon in the future. Those are the types of stylists that usually suffer burnout and are gone from the industry in the first few years of working it.
I can only speak for myself but as a stylist I make every effort to make sure every client is happy with their hairstyle before leaving my chair and communication is the key.
Sometimes when a customer sits in my chair I can see the look of fear or dread in their eyes as I toss the cape on them and they're nerves are on end. These are the people that are probably similar to most of you and they loose their train of thought or what they were coming in here for....maybe they wanted to try a new style or whatever but they completely have a mental meltdown for fear of the stylist cutting too much hair, so as a stylist I hafta almost perform Hairapy and talk these customers outta shock and discuss with them what they want to do. I hafta quell their fears and earn their trust and it takes time....many customers are always skeptics until a desired result is achieved.
I don't think it's any HairStylist's intention to give someone a haircut they don't want or don't like but communication is the key.
If you are nervous one of the things you can do is ask the stylist after they cut the first section or first snip of the shears if you could see what they are taking off because you are nervous after your last haircut. HairStylists are not offended by this and usually are more than willing to show you so you don't go through the whole haircut fearful of the end results. We can tell when your nervous, HairStylists want nothing more than to earn your trust so you don't leave with a haircut you hate and be disappointed and loose trust in all HairStylists. There are good ones out there you just got to find them, stick with them, and tip them well. Avoid chain salons like the plague if you want better results!
That's my 2 cents!
And don't hate HairStylists just find a better one if you don't like the one you have now!
As for stylists not liking long hair...well lets just say it's harder to work with long hair so IMO the haircuts should cost more money for longer hair, especially if they want it blow dried, etc because it takes time and time is money! I love long hair, I love short hair....I love hair period just the fact that I can take a beautiful women and make her more beautiful it's rewarding to see someone look at your work and say wow she looks even more beautiful than before! That's a cool feeling.
So don't be hatin all HairStylists out there.
Edited by Claude - June 18 2006 at 10:43am
DaveDecker
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Thank you for your response. Many of us, too, are sad that we have had unpleasant experiences at salons. Personally, I've been mostly quite fortunate, but I have had a bad experience or two.
I've generally heard that salons/stylists that specialize in "upscale/trendy" looks tend to be the least supportive of long hair. A prime example is Tony and Guy. I've also heard that the stylists at some of the cheapo chains generally do a good job, since they prefer simplicity (and trimming a straight blunt line on long hair isn't terribly challenging).
The key seems to be the stylist's perspective of the client. Some think: "A lump of clay I can mold to express my artistic capabilities!" Others think: "I will do whatever my customer wants because I want a happy client." Sometimes, for some people, there is no contradiction between the perspectives. For others (especially the long-haired, who wish to remain that way), there is a world of difference.
I sense that you are a respectful and proficient stylist, and the industry needs more stylists like you. But the industry also needs to include long hair training in its mandatory educational curriculum... things such as "how to untangle long hair," "how to wash long hair without snarling it up," and "how to style long hair" (and I don't mean with scissors, I mean updo's, braids, and the like). Claude, do you think there's a chance the industry will ever embrace this need (that is currently going begging)?
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Thanks for the compliments. It's funny because I know the mentality of some of the stylists you make mention of and in talking to them, many have the attitude of if your over 30 or over 40 you can't have long hair and have it look beautiful. I totally disagree with that theory as I know people of all ages who can have beautiful, long healthy hair.....I think in our society there is a tendancy to think once a women hits a certain milestone age or has a life altering experience like the birth of a child they should just go for the typical mommy hairdo's etc.
I disagree 100%!
As for long hair training it comes with experience. A stylist should always comb the hair with a widetooth comb or pick and start at the ends and work their way up to the roots. Many times hair snarls because the cuticle of the hair strand is damaged and that's the main cause of snarls in any hair....at any length. As for the industry embracing styling long hair....it's hard to say. Many of you with photos here have EXTREMELY long and I mean long hair. If you came to me for a haircut I would have you stand up while I did it...LOL!
Stylists can do updo's, braids and stuff like that on what I would call extremely long hair...(Mid back or longer) however when most customers get quoted prices for the updo's or braids they go into sticker shock! I know some salons that charge per inch for an updo. The longer the hair the more for the updo. Typically for an updo on the average long haired person...below shoulder length but not longer than mid-back is $55-$65....some salons even charge more....I certainly don't have a problem working with long hair. Braids well they are easy and inexpesive to do....most salons charge between $5-10 for a nice braid...just go in and ask.
I also think when alot of stylists see someone with hair mid back or longer they see the Cousin It image where it does nothing but just hangs and in some cases it does detract from a person's overall image....many times they almost seem to be hiding with all that hair around them. Bringing up the length to mid back or slightly shorter and adding some long layers within 2-3 inches from the perimeter of the haircut can allow someone to flip out the bottom of the hair to give some flair or instead of having a blunt straight line cut which IMHO is one of the most bland looking haircuts have it cut into more of a rounded scoop shape to give the hair some more movement so it doesn't just hang.
Hey what someone wants to do or how they want to look is their own business I just make it my business to accommodate someone's requests as a HairStylist when they come to see me.
Oh well here's to happy hair days for all!!!
Cheers!
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As for long hair training it comes with experience
Yes, unfortunately it gets no time within the initial curriculum, typically 1500 hours... isn't there at least a little room within all those hours for some long hair training?
Claude wrote:
Many of you with photos here have EXTREMELY long and I mean long hair. If you came to me for a haircut I would have you stand up while I did it...LOL!
Indeed, that's what I (and others I know whose hair is similarly long) have to do. And that's okay with me (and them). no problem.
Claude wrote:
I also think when alot of stylists see someone with hair mid back or longer they see the Cousin It image where it does nothing but just hangs and in some cases it does detract from a person's overall image....many times they almost seem to be hiding with all that hair around them. Bringing up the length to mid back or slightly shorter and adding some long layers within 2-3 inches from the perimeter of the haircut can allow someone to flip out the bottom of the hair to give some flair or instead of having a blunt straight line cut which IMHO is one of the most bland looking haircuts have it cut into more of a rounded scoop shape to give the hair some more movement so it doesn't just hang.
We've returned to the "who gets their way" thing. The stylist might think the client is nuts for wanting their waist-length hair trimmed in a straight blunt line, but the client is one the one buying the service.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but the boss (the client) should get what they want. The general workplace would be anarchy if the subordinates had their way.
Claude wrote:
Hey what someone wants to do or how they want to look is their own business I just make it my business to accommodate someone's requests as a HairStylist when they come to see me.
I too had the same experience. When u people had such experience, imagine a guy to have a long full length hair. My hairdresser insists that i should reduce the lenght of my hair. Im 6 feet tall and have hair upto my waist. But the hair dresser wants to reduce the lenght of my hair and also advices me to make frequent visits and trimm the hair every 3 weeks.
In fact he says that for such a length, only plaits will be suitable.
Vivek, stay away from that stylist and salon. Those people you mentioned in this and the other threads sound like they don't know what they are saying.
The only hairstyles that require trims that frequent are really short styles that need to be reshaped or kept short.
As for long hair you can go anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months. And some go over a year.
Many of us also trim our own hair using Feye's instructions http://feyeselftrim.livejournal.com/
I personally have not worn plaits or braids in public but there are some who wear them or buns. If You want to wear them then you can. It's up to you. Not some barber or stylist who sounds like they don't care about you or your hair.
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I too had the same experience. When u people had such experience, imagine a guy to have a long full length hair. My hairdresser insists that i should reduce the lenght of my hair. Im 6 feet tall and have hair upto my waist. But the hair dresser wants to reduce the lenght of my hair and also advices me to make frequent visits and trimm the hair every 3 weeks.
In fact he says that for such a length, only plaits will be suitable.
Ur suggestions on wearing plaits.
No need to imagine, I have that hair.
Your hairdresser doesn't live inside your body and your head. Your hairdresser seems intent on bending your mind. Whose interests would you rather serve -- theirs, or yours?
Wear your hair any way you want. To the best of my knowledge, long hair on men is only outlawed by dictators (N. Korea) and certain hard-line Islamic theocracies, so as long as you don't live where it's outlawed, do what you want.
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Bob S wrote:
no need to worry, you've always been very kind and respectful to me. 
I think it takes a long-haired girl to understand how special long hair is. That's another reason I loved going to male stylists before I found Kristine. Men don't dare cut off more than you want!
Just my opinion, but I think the attitude of the person, rather than the gender or length of hair, plays a bigger role in how the stylist respects longer hair.
