my parents hate my long hair

Jacqui;
Yes this thread has been very interesting with diverse opinions.
As I have stated, and I think Maria was saying this as well, it is not a matter of the parent attempting to control everything about a child's life or even control the way they look entirely, it is just letting the youngster know when they are going to an extreme that is not socially acceptable. Another word for it is guidance. That there are in fact limits, chilfren need to learn that. There is also authority and societal norms. At work you have a boss. Even if you run your own business you have to deal with others in the public. There is such a thing as "norms" of behaviour and even dress, that you at least need to be aware of .
I'm not saying that people don't have the right to be outside of those norms, my contention is they have the right to do that as an adult when they are paying their own way and fully accepting the consequences of their actions. Children need to learn that there is such a thing as cause and effect, that what you do or how you dress will draw reactions from others. To give children the false sense that there are no consequences concerning how they look or behave is essentially to deceive them. That is, to give them a version of reality that really isn't true. It isn't advisable to give them a false idealistic illusion of how the world really works.

Let kids experiment, yes but only to a point, and parents do have a certain amount of say over the minors in their care. If you were to upsurp that parental right which has worked for society for centuries and has been part of the backbone and structure of society, you aren't doing anyone any favors.
Parents have to be flexible but children have to obey their parents as well.
Most importantly, don't give kids any false illusions abpout reality, they have to know the bad as well as the good. They have to know that people in fact do judge them by their behaviour and their apperance.
Good thread, I have enjoyed reading everyone's varying opinions and ideas!

Wittlis,

I can't speak for Brent but I reread his posts and he wasn't talking about teenage boys or young men with long hair, he was talking about teenage boys or young men or young women who dress like gang bangers or punks.

Long hair on men is usually not the style these days of gangsters, punks, or hoodlums, like it was many years ago. Long haired young men are usually fairly peaceful or are artistic types or musicians who usually don't cause too much trouble and usually don't get into that much trouble.

So it is not surprising that your long haired son isn't giving you too many problems.

There are many working men too who have long hair, my fiancee is one of them, and people don't associate them with problems.

It is different with people who look like gangsters or punks as both Brent and I were trying to explain.
But this whole debate has really gotten off track and silly.

Obviously if a young person looks too outlandish or anti-social like a gangster or a punk, with that type of clothing, hair, tattoos, etc. people will be sceptical of them, and some employers won't hire them, depending upon the job. If a young man or woman is doing sales work with the public for example, they usually don't hire a woman who is heavily tattooed with a green mohawk and 10 piercings in each ear, an eyebrow ring, and "Goth" makeup, unless it is a business that is a little avant-garde like a music store where they sell teenage music or maybe certain bars or coffeshops that cater to that type of crowd.
But many conventional businesses won't hire them because obviously they don't want to drive away the general public and lose money. Obviously.

If a young man is wearing very baggy pants that almost are falling off of him, has piercings all over his face and is wearing gang colors or a jacket of a local gang, he probably won't get hired for the sales job. Hair length isn't the issue, it is other things or if the hair is colored goofy or cut in a punk style.

You see young people like this and some of them work someplace or another but many of them don't work, they live off of government checks, or off of family members and they seem to pride themselves on being anti-social and don't want to be part of society and work like the rest of us have to.

Or they pride themselves on doing time in jail, or use alot of drugs or liqour or whatever. Unless you have lead a very sheltered existence I am sure you have met these type of young people or at least seen them around. And sure clean cut kids can get in trouble also but usually not as often as kids who are trying to be against society or anti-social.

Some of them I am sure are just going through a juvenile phase that they will grow out of but some of them get into alot of trouble.

That is all I was trying to say. And I think Brent understood what I was saying and added to what I wrote with his own take on it, and maybe a couple other people who have read this thread understood what I was saying. Everyone else said ,"Oh you can't judge people by how they look".

Well of course there are exceptions, but usually people that try to look anti-social and like punks or like gangsters, often they are trouble. And many of them smell too even though alot of these kids are from wealthier families. They think they are being cool , being "grungy".

If very poor Mexican immigrants who work hard for very little money can be clean and presentable, and try to get along with people, why can't youngsters from wealthy suburban families also wash, be clean, and be presentable?

I guess I just don't understand why young people want to look anti-social and silly. I just wonder where their pride in themselves is.

I guess I was raised differently. Even though we were working class Mexican-Americans, my family allways worked hard and were clean and presentable.
To me self-respect and respect for others is more important than looking silly like an anti-social punk just to seem "cool".

And it isn't just how they look, it is often how they act toward others. How a person presents themselves to the world is a reflection of what they think of themselves and others. That is obvious.

Like Brent said, we have no choice about our ethnicity or skin color or how tall or short we are but we do have a choice in how we present ourselves to others and the respect we show to ourself and others.

Sincerely,
Maria

Hi Lady Maria,

I appreciate your response. I also sent you BMail about the topic but anyway, thank you so much for understanding.

Best wishes,
Karen

To everyone on this thread,

As I said before in an earlier post, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and thoughts and feelings. They all have validity and should be honestly considered.

However, it is never appropriate to turn a good debate about hair into personal attacks in any way.

I am not taking sides, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone who has posted. I value and appreciate everyone's thoughts and feelings.

Lady Maria, my apologies regarding your last post. Please understand that the post from Anonymous was a troll post that was designed to attack you and your feelings.

The Anonymous post was deleted since it was meant to cause problems on this thread. A legitimate poster would have posted with their registered name. The IP address of the Anonymous poster indicated that they had troll intentions.

We try very hard here on the Messageboards to eliminate all malicious posts from trolls or people who only care about causing trouble.

A real member who disagrees with your post would post under their registered name and IP and not Anonymously.

When someone is sincere about posting here they will register, which means the person is traceable via IP address. They will establish an identity that shows that they are legit in their interest in posting. It is wise to always be a little leery of unregistered posters, especially those who appear to post with messages that are designed to stir up trouble. Trolls love to stir up controversy and anger and then sit back and enjoy the show they created. Please don't let trolls manipulate you and your feelings.


Best wishes,
Karen Shelton
HairBoutique.com

Hi Isla,

Thank you for your kinds words.

Uzma,

You make me laugh so hard that the ROTFLOL seems too tame.

Thank you.

Best wishes,
Karen

uzma wrote: Wow Lady Maria. (...) I'm not having a "go" at you. Our experiences and opinions are very different. I am just suggesting that if you give a little time to people whose appearance you dislike, you may be happily suprised to find that you love the person who years that pink mohican. Uzma

Ditto.
Once again, Uzma, you put it into words I couldn't find. You write beautifully!

Maria, I too was not "having a go" at you, simply pointing something out I got from your posts (and obviously disagreeing with you). I'm a law student, I'm trained to do that stuff, sorry if you felt like you were being attacked.

Karen, thanks for sharing your story with all of us and for your wise words.

Happy Easter everyone!

Hi all,

First of all, thank you all for honestly expressing your opinions. It has really been thought provoking for me in a number of ways. I force myself to set aside time every week to read newpapers & magazines that challenge me on a number of fronts to help me identify my own inner demons and try to be a better, more informed person.

I find that this very thread, even though a little controversial, has helped me think about so many things...so thank you all so much for expressing yourselves.

Let me start by saying that I do not have children. I made a choice in my mid 20s that I was going to follow my dreams of having a career and personally felt that I could not focus on more than one demanding life path at a time. I enjoy kids and have tried to be a good aunt and "adopted aunt". I actually have 6 nieces and nephews and am close to some of them. They range from 10-23 in ages.

I also lived with a teenage stepson for 3 long and tortorous full time years :-). Although he did not rebel with wild hair colors or multiple piercings or even hair issues, he rebelled in many other teen ways that were more difficult to deal with. He refused to study or get good grades even though he was a very smart guy. He refused to work part time and when he was forced by his father, got fired from several jobs in a row including the very jobs that I had worked when I was putting myself through college. He left trash all over the house, left all the doors unlocked and sometimes wide open in the middle of the nite, he snuck out of the house at all hours to see his girlfriend and had a problem telling the truth. He refused to honor the rules of the house or even when he was grounded he would disregard his consequences of his actions.

Bottom line, he was just being a teenager. I think his dad and I would have welcomed him having long hair over flunking out of school, getting fired from multiple jobs and getting a raft of speeding and traffic tickets. :-)

The question PrettyBoi raised about his long hair is a difficult question to answer. I do not have my own biological children but I have my own form of kids. I also have hired and fired 3 different teens in a row at HairBoutique.com. Why? They showed up late, left early, didn't do their work, spent their time on their cell phones instead of dealing with HB.com customers and were terrible employees. Ironically I tried very hard to give them all the benefit of the doubt but ultimately they all were asked to leave. It hurt me to fire them but I always put my business as a priority and my customers come first, as it should be.

So where am I with all this? I think there are two sides to every story. I think that we all have our own baggage and inner demons that are triggered by these types of topics (just like religion and politics) and I think that ultimately everyone has to follow their own heart in every decision that they make. Ultimately the choices we make as parents, as kids, as teen, as business owners...we have to live with and we have to deal with in our own ways.

Thank you all for sharing your hearts and minds about this and for understanding that everyone has a right to own thoughts, feelings and opinions.

Best wishes...Happy Easter to all of you....

Karen

Isla,

It isn't a question of "labeling" people. it's a matter of common sense.
None of us are total islands. We live in a society with other people. While it's true you can't allways judge people by how they look, how people look reflects how they feel about themselves and how they relate to others.

If a person has a pink or green mohawk, wears outlandish or skimpy clothes and is blasting rap or heavy metal music out of their car, most people associate that sort of look and behavior of a person as being juvenile, immature, or a silly way to look and behave. It's not about whether someone is "different" or not. It is about being taken seriously by others.

There are other looks that people don't like on people as well.

If people wear gang clothing and dress like gang bangers, people don't like it. If people looked dirty and grungy, people don't like it.

Of course, to some degree, we judge people by how they look, even if that seems unfair, it is something all of us do. That is reality.


And some people who look different are better accepted than others because they are considered more grownup or responsible, or less anti-social.



As an example, men with very long hair like Dave, or men with an earring, or a woman with short hair or a nosestud like I have, if they are clean and wearing presentable clothes and behave like a grownup, they may be considered a little eccentric or different by some people, but are still taken seriously and accepted by most people. They aren't considered threating, or anti-social, or juvenile by most people.

The "punk look" or the "gang look" is different. Most people don't take seriously people who look like a punk.
Likewise, most people feel threatened by people wearing gang colors, or people are disgusted by people who are excessively dirty or grungy looking.

In most adult's minds they associate certain looks and music with juvenile, immature behavior. That is a fact.


If you don't believe me, get a pink or green mohawk and drive around in a car blasting rap, or heavy metal or punk rock music. See the reaction you get from people.

I have nothing against people looking different. In some ways I'm different.
But I have common sense. I have seen, many times, the reactions that people get from others if they look like punks. People think they are immature and silly. And the people who wear the punk look, most of them, know, unless they are very young, that people look at them as being immature and silly. And it's often hard for them to get jobs, so many of them are unemployed. Certain looks don't inspire trust or confidence in others. Some "different" looks are much less accepted than other "different" looks are. That is a fact. Most people accept me with a nosestud, but if I were to get a pink Mohawk and many visible tattoos, I would be judged much more, people would be suspicious of me or think I was immature or silly and if I was looking for work, might not hire me.

And the looks that adults, employers, whatever, like the least are; people who look dirty, people who look like gang bangers, and people who look like punks.

If you don't believe me, try these looks yourself.

And it does matter at least to some degree, what others think of you, we are not total islands. We have to co-operate with society. That doesn't mean someone has to be a complete conformist, but it does mean you need at least some common sense.

Plus, most punk looks just aren't that attractive, regardless of the social consequences of the look. And that statement, of course, is just my opinion.

But I'm different enough Isla, I'm not getting a pink mohawk!(Tee hee).

Brent wrote: It has been my experience, and I'm early 40s a few years older than you Uzma, that the kids who wore the punk styles when I was a teenager usually did have more trouble in school and with the law. Some of these kids were rebelling against overly strict parents but others were simply allowed to do whatever they wanted by overly liberal parents. Looks do influence how a young person percieves themself, and ask the police or the social workers about this. The kids with the most problems and who are most likely to end up dead, in jail, in drug treatment or preganant at 15 are the ones who look awful, look like punks, and all too often they have been spoiled by leniant parents. This cuts across racial and class lines as well. The good news is most of the kids who looked terrible and ridiculous outgrew it. But some didn't and ended up dead or addicted to drugs or booze or had other problems that were serious with the law. Some also ended up being bums who spend their life complaining and protesting how terrible conservatives are or how terrible western nations are. That I don't need and it is juvenile behaviour. I must admit my hair was a little long and I was maybe a little too much into hard rock and heavy metal myself when I was a teenager and a young adult, and I did try pot and drank some beer, but I outgrew it and thankfully never took more dangerous drugs like heroin or cocaine.

Brent,

I recall from my teens a couple of girls who had waist-lengh hair... one of them cut her hair quite short, out of rebellion against her parents who were very strict, though not about her hair being long. This seemed to mark a transition toward a downward spiral of increasingly detrimental choices. The other girl was raised by what you would call "liberal" parents. She was convinced by some of her friends that cutting her hair short would be fun and chic. Well she cut her hair short and then later found out that these friends had been jealous of her long hair and that that was their motivation for convincing her to cut her hair. The girl was furious and since she didn't like the short haircut anyway, began to grow it back out; by graduation her hair was nearly at her waist again.

You see Brent, your generalizations are not always true. Without getting too deeply involved into political digression, one weakness I have noticed in self-professed conservatives is that they rely too heavily on the absolute truth of generalizations (such as you have sprinkled "liberally" throughout your responses). Do not infer my political beliefs or viewpoints on any topics, unless I specifically state them. I generally see myself as an independent thinker, who sees both merit and drawback to various viewpoints on boths sides of the political spectrum.

Now, to comment more specifically on the above excerpt from you...

For some teenagers who are generally "model" children, parents who refuse to let them wear their hair as they wish can actually create a rift between the generations and in turn lead to the child's desire to behave in mischevious ways. So it's not the unusual hairstyle choice that leads to detrimental behavior; rather, the choice of the unusual hairstyle may be a manifestation of the unresolved differences between the parents and child. Don't confuse cause and effect.

Oh, and just for the record, I'm a grown-up too.