feeling depressed over something stupid!!!!!

>>>>OK, now you're getting high and mighty, and that's not cool.

Why do you think that?

If I say that I just bought a Mercedes and later complain to you that I don't have enough money to buy food for my children, are you going to have sympathy for me?

We have FAR more control over our lives than we think we do.

Hi all,

I hear all of you on this subtopic of criticism that has popped up. It is a topic that I deal with daily from a number of views.

The positive and negative aspect of messageboards is that as soon as we post something we are opening ourselves up to other people's opinions and viewpoints....good or bad. Some people are more diplomatic than others in their responses and some may have a hard time keeping their opinions from being harsh or rude or personal. Some people actually feel better about themselves when they can criticize someone else. Others believe that they are sincerely wanting to help...whether they other person agrees or not.

As the owner of HB.com the buck ultimately stops with me on every issue that comes up. When someone posts comments (on any of the boards) that are viewed as rude or inappropriate, I or the thread's moderator are responsible for deciding what to do. Do we delete the offending post? Do we privately contact the offending poster and ask them to tone it down? Or do we block their IP so that they are no longer welcome to post on the board? The last option is certainly the most drastic but we have blocked posters before and we have privately asked people via email to please not visit again citing the reasons why.

Some people believe that it is good for others to hear all sorts of criticism and they believe that they are doing it "constructively". Others hate constructive criticism. Some people give feedback in a kind and non-judgemental way. Others give feedback in a way that appears condescending, judgemental and rude.

It is my opinion that when someone posts...I don't mean to be rude or I don't mean to criticize....they are invariably being rude and critical.

I get email criticisms from complete strangers on a regular basis about HairBoutique.com. When an email writer starts out the email by saying "I thought you would like to know - this sucks or that sucks" it offends me on a number of levels. It offends me because I work 7 days a week, 24 hours a day to make HB.com the best site that it can be. A site that is always available to the hundreds of thousands of people who take advantage of the thousands of articles and galleries and messageboards. It also offends me that the email is from a person that doesn't know me or the site and in my opinion doesn't have a right to attack me or HB.com for the sake of "constructive criticism" However, when people like Dave Decker or any of my board moderators email me and make suggestions or comments, I value those opinions very highly because they are people that are part of the community and are here all the time. I also listen closely when any of my customers to the Marketplace make comments or suggestions or "constructive criticisms". I don't always agree (yeah it would be nice to always have free shipping on all products except that I would go broke) but I do listen and try to find ways to compromise or do things better in the future.

However, if a complete strangers writes and says....I really enjoy this or that but would love it if HB.com offered more images of whatever, I would definitely listen. Conversely, if someone said I think it sucks that you don't have more images of whatever, I would probably feel attacked.

A lot depends on how the "constructive" criticism is posed. It can be done politely or it can be done where it offends completely.

HB.com is always free. The way we pay for the site is through our store and the sale of things like HairTopia & Viviscal and our many different products. Yet visitors sometimes come to the messageboards and attack our products. Or they post links where people can buy the products we sell from our competitors. Yes, I want people to feel 100% free to express their opinions and share information but what they don't understand is that by attacking our products or sending people to our competitors, they are hurting future sales and thus shooting the cash cow that pays for the site that they visit and use. I understand that not everyone likes every product. And I understand that people need to express their opinions. But I think there is a right way and a wrong way to do this.

I could debate this topic with myself for hours. However, I found a great article from BeautyWalk, one of the HB.com partners that really has a good handle on criticism and feedback that I thought I would share with all of you:

http://www.beautywalk.com/lifestyle/august00/getting-critical_august.htm

On the boards that have a Moderator (like Dave in this case) I do respect the rights of the Moderator to deal with problem posts as the first line and I don't interfere or get directly involved unless I am asked. However, this topic about constructive criticism is appropriate in general and I felt the need to comment in detail.

So what is your feedback on what to do when a poster is offensive? Do you think the post should be removed or the poster censored? Should the post stand for others to respond? Or do you have other suggestions? I would love to hear your thoughts. I can't speak for Dave but I suspect he would also be interested.

Best wishes,
Karen

Karen -- one more thing to consider. There's a huge difference between someone purposely attacking another with harsh words and someone asking a question when someone has posted something that appears to be inconsistent with earlier writing.

If you're going to lay a heavy hand of censorship on the forums, then what you have left is a place where everyone nods his says in agreement with no differences of opinion or thoughts whatsoever.

The information that Monica gave was very conflicting, given her earlier posts. I'm surprised if she didn't think anyone would notice. Did I attack? I asked her to clarify. If she felt threatened by the question, perhaps she should ponder the reason.

Again, if I bought a luxury and then later complained that I had no money to buy shampoo, most people would probably scratch their heads and say, "What......?" Something doesn't add up here.

hairalways wrote: I can't remeber how far back it was that she attacked me and insulted me for trying to help someone who had cut their hair feel better.

Attack and insult? I'd say that you would be insulted by nearly anything! Here was the situation: when someone cuts her hair and does not like it, my comment is that although it may sound like you're trying to help by complimenting the person on the haircut, the compliment can also be read as questioning the taste of the person (who cut her hair) but doesn't like it. It's almost as if one is saying, "But the haircut looks great on you, and your taste is in your question if you don't like it."

I stated that was one interpretation of complimenting someone on a haircut she doesn't like.

Attack? How on earth do you function in real life if you can't accept other opinions? I'll be the first to admit that I can be very brash, but that was certainly not one of the situations. You shouldn't be insulted when opinions don't match your own.

Good grief!

Oh, and

can tell you that she comes to this board to be offensive.

Actually, you cannot, as you are not a representative of me. That may be your interpretation, but you cannot speak for me.

I've been posting at HB for a very long time, and I have to say that I'm surprised at most of the new posters here. Many seem to take offense if anything is questioned or any opinions differ. Posters in the past seemed to be a lot hardier and had a lot more spunk for some great conversations!

I simply don't buy into the political correctness philosophy of sanitizing everything I say.

If we look to be offended, guaranteed we'll find it. But it seems to be a rather negative view on life. Also, to me, life is too short to allow others to dictate how we feel.

Karen,

First of all, you have always been so generous and kind with your censorship of these boards. You try very hard to let people say what they need & want w/out any censorship but you do step up to the plate when people like Jennifer attack on every single board. Maybe it would be best for you to ask Jennifer to go elsewhere. There must be a board somewhere that would appreciate her attacks at every turn which she says is "helpful criticisms." I for one would vote that she leave HairTalk. It would become a much nicer place IMO.

Cora

Cora, I'd suggest that you read all or at least the majority of my posts before you make such sweeping generalizations.

Karen, with all due respect, my post was not completely off-topic. This thread started out as a woman who said she could not afford some hair products. It ties in directly with a post from another forum where she spent literally thousands of dollars on elective cosmetic surgery. Do you see the connection? The situation of how someone can afford to spend thousands of dollars in one area yet not be able to afford a minute fraction of that amount of money is puzzling, to say the least.

Dave, I have to be brutally honest -- I'm rather shocked at how extremely thin-skinned many here appear to be. Some of these guys would have a heart attack if they witnessed a real attack! Some are acting as if I've viciously attacked someone when all I did was question a statement which conflicted with something written on another board. I really wonder how people can function in real life taking offense at anything which doesn't feed their egos! If many are going to be ultra-sensitive and become easily offended, then so be it, but will you also be consistent in admonishing very clear attacks on personalities (the guy on the short hair board allows attacks on people whose opinions he doesn't like)? It seems to me that you can’t pick and choose who you’ll criticize for, umm, criticizing or the perception of criticism.

It seems to me extremely inconsistent when it is "wrong" for one person to state her views, yet it's okay for many others to criticize her in much more of a critical tone than she originally delivered.

I've participated in many forums over the years, but I've never seen any forum like this one (recently, that is) where people become extremely offended at so very little. I can't imagine giving all that power to someone on the internet.

This is really just a forum on the web, and although we are all real people behind these words, I honestly think that some people are taking things way too seriously!

Out of respect for you, Dave, I will certainly try to sanitize my views so that no one becomes terribly bent out of shape or psychologically damaged.

Hey, let’s all take a deep breath.....!

Jennifer wrote: Dave, I have to be brutally honest -- I'm rather shocked at how extremely thin-skinned many here appear to be...

Jennifer, different people have different levels of tolerance for criticism. Sure, I recall seeing far more "vicious" personal attacks on message boards in the past, but it isn't the responsibility of anybody here to "toughen up" anybody else's "skin." Therefore, I believe it's most beneficial to all involved if we try to remain supportive on the Long Hair Support board.

Jennifer wrote: If many are going to be ultra-sensitive and become easily offended, then so be it, but will you also be consistent in admonishing very clear attacks on personalities (the guy on the short hair board allows attacks on people whose opinions he doesn't like)? It seems to me that you can’t pick and choose who you’ll criticize for, umm, criticizing or the perception of criticism....

I don't moderate, nor necessarily keep up with, the short hair board (and have not read referenced attacks).

If/when they occur here, the focus is on the person who finds themselves at the center of a controversy, especially when it's many against one. It's natural to question, "why is everybody ganging up on that one person?" The merits of the "attacks" -- both ways -- are considered.

Tact is valued. There exist many tactful ways to dissent or even "criticize" without leaving the recipient of the dissent feeling disrespected.

Jennifer wrote: I've participated in many forums over the years, but I've never seen any forum like this one (recently, that is) where people become extremely offended at so very little. I can't imagine giving all that power to someone on the internet.

Your skin is thick. Be grateful for that.

Jennifer wrote: This is really just a forum on the web, and although we are all real people behind these words, I honestly think that some people are taking things way too seriously!

It's not for you or me or anybody else to decide how much value any one person should place on their interactions in this or any forum.

While we may all like long hair, we are all probably very different in many other regards.

Jennifer wrote: Out of respect for you, Dave, I will certainly try to sanitize my views so that no one becomes terribly bent out of shape or psychologically damaged.

Thank you for your consideration, Jennifer.

Monica,
Back to your original post, I can understand where you're coming from. The only thing that I can really say is that those sales hardly EVER come at a time that is good for me...
That was very nice of your Mom to do that for you, I have to tell you, Moms are great!!
I do hope that you enjoy your Shampoo and Conditioner, I absoluetly love my All Soft!