Banishing Bad Hair Days since 1997!™
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - support oue military men and women!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

support oue military men and women!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
Author
IRIS View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: January 26 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 44
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IRIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2003 at 10:42pm
I feel like a lot of reply's posted are attacking Uzma, she is obviously an intelligent woman. And she is is not saying she dislikes Americans. I love being American as much as anyone. Although there are horrible things that are American political leaders do that we don't know about. Or the truth is twisted. We have to realize that our country has done some terrible things in the past just to stay the most powerful country. And if you support freedom of speech then you would not attack uzma or anyone for that matter that has a different opinion ther than yours.
Back to Top
Lady Maria View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2002
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2003 at 11:02pm
Wow Brent! That was really beautiful what you wrote to uzma! You are really a sweet guy!


I know there are more inter- religious marriages in America now, I've noticed that too. I know an Iranian Muslim women, and she is a really nice person, who is married to a European-American Christian guy. They live in my neighborhood, two houses down from me, and I have talked with them, especially her, a number of times.

I don't know what religion they are raising their 3 year old daughter, but this neighbor lady usually wears her headscarf and sometimes she has her little daughter wear a longer dress and a little headscarf too, and the little girl is such a doll! She is just adorable!

I love the look of a headscarf too. I sometimes wear a silk or chiffon neck scarf and when I had long hair I used to sometimes tie my hair back in a ponytail with a scarf. I do, once in a while, wear a headscarf too, especially now since my hair is so short. I really do like the look!
Whether for religious, cultural or fashion reasons, headscarves are very feminine!

Uzma, this war I hope you know, is not the Crusades. We are not fighting Muslims, we are fighting the Iraqi regime. Like Brent said, many American admire Muslims. And he is right, the traditional and religious nature of Muslim society is very compatible with America, we are like that too. I hope too we have closer relations with the Arabs after the war. I would love that!

Here in America Uzma, Arab- Muslims are being very upfront and vocal that they are as patriotic as other Americans. Muslim leaders point out, correctly, that Muslim-Americans have fought in every war that America has been in, including W.W.I, W.W.II, the Korean War, the Vietnam War, and the first Persian Gulf war, as well as the present war. Like other Americans of all ethnic groups and religions, Muslims have fought against German Christians, Japanese Buddhists, Vietnamese Athiest Communists, and Arab Muslims.
Just as German-American Christians fought in large numbers against the Germans in W.W.II, and Japanese-American Buddhists fought against Buddhists, so Muslim-Americans fight against fellow Muslims if the war is againgst a mostly Muslim country like Iraq.
You see at "Support the Troops" rallies in America, Muslim women with headscarves waving the American flag, Muslim-American men who give speeches concerning the many Arab-Muslim men who are serving in the American army, it really is very important to the American Muslim community to be viewed as patriotic, and they are patriotic! If you accuse a Muslim of not being patriotic, Muslims get angry and point out the many Muslims who have served, and are serving, in the American military. I heard an Arab man on the radio yesterday on NPR talking about just this subject. He himself was an older man who had fought the Germans in W.W.II. His grandson is over in Iraq right now.

To Americans Uzma, this IS NOT the Crusades or a conflict between Christan-Americans and Arab-Muslims. I know the Christian bigots, like your "National Front" types would like to make it a religious war, as would bigoted Muslim "Holy War" types,a clash of civilizations of sorts, but to the vast majority of Christian AND Muslim Americans this war is not about religion. And that Uzma is the truth of how we feel. And most Arab-Americans agree with me on that. They are patriotic and brave people.

Also Uzma it is not a question of America "winning "the war in the short run or the long run. The world is too big for any country, including a Superpower, to control. America can't even control our neighbors in Latin America. They vote in anti-American governments as often as pro-American governments, and the Latin American countries do plenty of business with us, they also often do business with West Europe and Japan.

And these big corporations are multi-nationals now, with the money going everywhere. Even a corporation based in ,let's say Germany, may have major stockholders who are wealthy Arabs, French, or British. An American corporation may have major stockholders who are Japanese, Brazilian or Dutch. Jobs and money go everywhere, and money and jobs move around all the time from country to country. No one "wins" or "controls" everything nowadays, it is more complex than that. In the future we will be even more interconnected. The international economy just goes. It is bigger than any one country or group of politicians.

It is also true that in the past most people lived under Monarchies or dictatorships as you say. But just because something happened in the past doesn't always make it good. Such things as widow burning, human sacrifice, cannibalism, and women not being allowed to work outside of the homewas also in the past. Should we go back to that?

If dictatorships are benevolent some dictatorships will probably survive. The problem is they rarely are. In a democracy the powerful and wealthy still have the most clout of course, they do under any system,but they have less clout than in a dictatorship, because in a democracy there is relatively more citizen input and elections. We can kick the Bush or Blair administration out. (I hope we kick out Bush, if I was British I would vote for Blair however, I think he is smarter than Bush and better on environmental issuesand other issues). I could be wrong, any of us could ,but I just don't think dictatorships will last, even in the Muslim world. I think we are past the "tipping point" on that. Look at the huge pro-democracy protests in Iran. And they were having them in China too until the military gunned down the protestors in Tinanamen Square.
But democracy will come to China once they get a big enough middle class, just as elections came to South Korea, Latin America, South Africa and East Europe.

Like Brent, I wish you the best Uzma and I really do hope Muslims and Christians can have a great future together!



Lady Maria
Back to Top
uzma View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 27 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1057
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2003 at 1:56am
Brent

Thank you for your insights and explanations. I hope this Mid-East situation does resolve itself and you and your family can holiday in Arabia.
Your thoughts about muslim culture are lovely. Thanks for sharing them.

Lady Maria

I have been thinking deeply about everything you have said, and I have to say that if dictatorships are to be toppled by democracy in the muslim world as a first step towards our theocratic ideal, then so be it. There is too much injustice and brutality in the world and perhaps democracy will act to resolve that. As someone who lived in democratic Pakistan for 7 years - I have my reservations. It doesn't fit with the nature of the people.

I am grateful for your reassurance that Americans do not see this as a crusade. Many muslims think it is and that is backed up by the increasing antagonism we face every day. But we don't have a victim mentality. We have our faith and we are tough (and argumentative).
If at the end of this war, the Americans and the Arabs have astronger and more positive relationship, than I will be holidaying in Miami with my family. With a BIG smile on my face.
I hope that happens.

Iris

Thank you for your support.
Discussions like these are great for kicking around ideas and getting to know the opposite views to your own. I have really enjoyed this thread, even if it's mostly been pretty negative.
My best wishes to you.

Love to you all.
Uzi

Back to Top
Brent once again View Drop Down
Unregistered
Unregistered
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brent once again Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2003 at 8:41am
Uzma and Maria:

The war may be negative but you ladies are certainly not. You are both delightful and very bright.

I can appreciate and approve of your optimistic view on democracy Maria but two things have to happen for a democracy to be sucessfull.

1. At least a somewhat decent and diverse economy, and diversity is very important. If one industry goes down you need other industries to pick up the slack. Diversity also leads to a more educated workforce which just about automatically lends itself to a more tolerant, just, and prosperous society.
2. The people have to really want democracy and this is the most important thing.

In Taiwan and South Korea they developed the economy first, then went democratic and the people were ready for democracy and it works.
Democracy is holding in Latin America not because Latin America is so developed economically, although there have been improvements, but they just can't stand going back to the days of horrid military dictatorships with the "dirty wars" the "disappeared persons", the bloody suppression of workers groups,etc., etc.. Even in bad economic times democracy wins there because they don't want the alternative again.
In most parts of former Communist central Europe, places like Poland or the Czech Republic , democracy is working and their economy is slowly improving and they alllways wanted democracy in those places. In India democracy wins by default, not that it works so well. But what kind of dictatorship or authoritarian rule would India go to? A Communist State? Not India's style. A military dictatorship like Pakistan? Not India's style either. A Hindu religious state? Wouldn't work, too many Muslims there. A monarchy? Who would be the monarch? A state run by a Gandhi-like holy man? A "cult of personality" state? The holy men aren't tough enough or practical enough. So democracy wins by default in India.
Russia and the old Soviet Republics are a different story. As of yet democracy isn't working. The economy is a wreck, partially because gangsters and organized crime run virtually everything there, not just some things like in the U.S. or most other countries with many criminals. It is hard to run a sucessful business when the local Mafia is demanding a large piece of your profits. Hard to get foreign investment when a man with a gun pays you a visit and says pay up or you are dead.
The Russians and the other Republics were not economically developed and didn't know much about running a reasonably honest democracy, unlike some of the Central Europeans. The gangsters took over quick, more than anywhere else I can think of. I think the Russians would like an honest democracy but it might be too late, millions of the best and brightest Russians and people from the other Republics have allready left and gone to west Europe, North America, even Australia and South America. Not much left in Russia but the very poor, the very drunk and the very criminal. Hard to build a great country when most of your best young adults are leaving.
Democracy didn't work in Pakistan Uzma because the economy was horrible and not very diverse and not much of a middle class and enormous poverty. Maybe the people weren't ready for it either, they were lukewarm on it. If democracy does suceed in places like Russia and Pakistan it will probably be like Latin America. The people will simply get so sick and tired of rule by authoritarians or gangsters that they will demand, and somehow some way ,get, something democratic.
One place that does want democracy is Iran. The religious clerics don't know anything about running an economy and made the country much poorer and more frustrated, overuled every economically and socially progressive idea the elected Parliment ever had, and oppressed the people to the point where in their private lives they are totally disobeying the clerics and in public have staged numerous huge protests.
It wouldn't take much of a push to create a democracy in Iran.

Thanks for your delightful and intelligent writngs ladies. Have a very nice day and evening.
Back to Top
Lady Maria View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2002
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2003 at 8:13pm
Very interesting Brent. Great analysis of these countries.

Thanks Uzma and Brent!
Lady Maria
Back to Top
Sophie View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 850
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sophie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2003 at 8:33pm
BROVO!!!!...all of you.! I Love reading all of you.

Back to Top
Vineman View Drop Down
Junior Member
Junior Member


Joined: August 29 2003
Location: Depends
Status: Offline
Points: 79
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vineman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2003 at 5:35pm
The Vietnam war sucked, Communism is no worse than Capitalism in theory it's just the greedy rich American governemnt brainwashed everyone into thinking communism is evil. Maybe it has been used for evil, but so has captialism.

Anyway, all existing systems sucks, someone with more than half a braincell needs to think up something better.
Back to Top
Lady Maria View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2002
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2003 at 7:59pm
The problem with Communism is that it became totalitarian almost everywhere, therefore anti-democractic and with a terrible human rights record.
It is estimated that Communist governments killed at least 50 million of their citizens, mostly political dissidents or opposing political groups, or ethnic minorities like the Tibetans in China or the Ukrainians in the Soviet Union when it was ruled by Stalin. The old Soviet Union killed at least 15 million, China over 20 million.
Capitalism of course can be totalitarian as well and indeed have had brutal dictators especially in Latin America. Today though, most of the Capitalist countries(which is most of the world now) is democratic.
The main reason that Communism fell though was it's inefficency, it simply could not deliver goods and services to it's people in a way that created a decent standard of living, it collapsed at least to some degree of it's own weight, not only in the Soviet Union but almost everywhere. Even China today has more jobs in the private sector(that is to say Capitalism) than in the Government sector.


There is no ideal system. A system is only as good as the people who run it.
Lady Maria
Back to Top
Lady Maria View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2002
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2003 at 8:00pm
The other problem with Communism was that it not only banned other political parties and democracy, but it banned religion and freedom of the press and the arts.
That was another reason it collapsed. People couldn't tolerate the oppression of it.
Lady Maria
Back to Top
Brent View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: May 14 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2003 at 9:39pm
It goes without saying that communism had a horrific human rights record.
Over and above any human rifgts concerns the fact is communism failed and has largely gone by the wayside because it didn't work. It just didn't work.

That's not surprising given that the economy was handed over to government bureaucrats, political hacks who didn't really know how to run an economy. The so called "Dictatorship of the Proletariat" were just incompetant ideological thugs without a clue how to run a viable economy.It never worked. In fact throughout the Cold war even when the U.S.A. was fighting communists we were also feeding them. Without American grain and other foodstuffs, often donated by the U.S. government who bought it from American farmers, the old Soviet Union would have faced mass starvation on numerous occasions as their Communist run agricultural sector failed miserably.

What the Communists never understood is there has to be competetion to bring out the best in people in any given occupation, profession or business. Without it it just becomes a matter of political appointments as opposed to quality.
The old saying under communism, a cynical saying by communist workers was,"We pretend to work, and the communists pretend to pay us". Nothing got done right. The whole thing just got more and more inefficent and bogged down until it fell apart.

Capitalism at it's worst can be brutal. Competetion in general can be brutal. But it does work. It creates a much better standard of living for society, because outcomes are based on hard work, creativity and productivity, that is to say quality instead of a contrived, controlled government sector.Even the "workers", that is the working and blue collar classes, usually lived better under capitalism than under communism, assuming of course some progessivity in government to cushion the harhser blows of capitalism and to assist the natural dynamic and creativity of the private sector.
Back to Top
Brent View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: May 14 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2003 at 10:10pm
People:

Have you noticed how this post started as a salute to our(American/British) men and women in uniform, a "Support Our Troops" posting, and it has grown into philisophical, religious, and political discourses...... Nothing operates in a vacum does it.

.....What do this have to do with hair. Let me make a connection:_____all political, religious and philosophical people have hair(unless they are bald). So there.__ There we finally have a connection!


______Have a good weekend.
Back to Top
Sophie View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 850
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sophie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2003 at 9:46am
Lady Maria..Vineman...Brent....I loved reading you as usual.

I'm really enjoying this Political and Philosophical side to everyone..............

Hey, do you guy's post on any sites that are more dedicated to Philosophy or the like?

I would enjoy further reading in this area. ??? any suggestions??

Thank's.
Back to Top
Lady Maria View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: December 31 2002
Location: U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 307
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lady Maria Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2003 at 10:46pm
No Sophie I don't post on any political or philosophy websites.

I'm not a philosopher but I do follow politics, but just as an ordinary citizen would.

I do have my political beliefs and opinions, I'm sure you can tell that!


I consider myself pretty practical and moderate in my politics. So is the man I'm marrying, we have similar poltical and social views, we are pretty compatible with that stuff. Which makes it easy on both of us. I don't mind discussing politics once in a while but I don't like arguing about it that much.


This thread really has been interesting hasn't it!
Lady Maria
Back to Top
uzma View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 27 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 1057
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uzma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2003 at 3:59pm
Hi Sophie

You might want to check out the following site:

http://forum.darwinawards.com/


I hope Karen Shelton starts a Friendship Board so that we can express our non-hair related thoughts and ideas in a dedicated forum.

Cheers

Uzma
Uzi

Back to Top
Sophie View Drop Down
Member
Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 850
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sophie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2003 at 7:26pm
This thread has been interesting, LM. Thank's to all of you.

Uzma, thank you so much for that link....Wow, I will have some interesting reading for quite a while to come......It may be way above my head, but I will love reading it. Thanks again.

The friendship board sounds really great too.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 345
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down


Copyright 1997-2021, hairboutique.com, All Rights Reserved.
Terms of Service, Privacy Statement, Advertise, Contact Us, Press, Disclaimer