question for the very long-haired ladies

I'm just curious... what type of jobs or careers do you have? I'm a law student, and I know that very long hair is generally considered "too sexy" for a courtroom. (Especially if you have a very feminine-sounding name to go with it!) I was just wondering whether you have jobs that are more receptive to long hair, or if you put it up every day at work.I have a chin-length bob right now and I've thought about growing it longer, but I just don't know if I want to have to put it up every day. (I don't think I look that great with my hair up.)

Hi Carmen,My hair is knee length. I am the supervisor of a customer service department for a large computer company. Most often I either wear my hair down, or in a braid. However, when we have customer's coming into the office I will simply pull my hair back from my face and put it into a barrette or make a bun out of the top half of my hair and use hair sticks to hold it. It hasn't seemed to hinder me in my career at all and when I was offered this position, I was told what made me stand out from the other candidates was my beautiful hair and the fact that I took the time to hand write thank you notes after my first interview. Oh, and this wasn't a man who told me this, but the woman who interviewed me.Take care,Noreen> I'm just curious... what type of jobs or careers do> you have? I'm a law student, and I know that very long> hair is generally considered "too sexy" for> a courtroom. (Especially if you have a very> feminine-sounding name to go with it!) I was just> wondering whether you have jobs that are more> receptive to long hair, or if you put it up every day> at work.> I have a chin-length bob right now and I've thought> about growing it longer, but I just don't know if I> want to have to put it up every day. (I don't think I> look that great with my hair up.)

Carmen, I'm a law student, as well, and have seen a number of extremely long-haired female lawyers (although I haven't seen any long-haired male lawyers). One of the top in our state has hair well past her waist. . .and it certainly hasn't seemed to have heeded her career progress! :) She doesn't wear it up, either. If you're worried about any ramifications, you could grow your hair out and wear it in a French twist or a bun, which I see often.Good luck with your education!I'm just curious... what type of jobs or careers do> you have? I'm a law student, and I know that very long> hair is generally considered "too sexy" for> a courtroom. (Especially if you have a very> feminine-sounding name to go with it!) I was just> wondering whether you have jobs that are more> receptive to long hair, or if you put it up every day> at work.> I have a chin-length bob right now and I've thought> about growing it longer, but I just don't know if I> want to have to put it up every day. (I don't think I> look that great with my hair up.)

My school runs several pro-bono clinics that give students an opportunity to represent juveniles and low-income clients in court. That's something I plan to get involved with next year, and of course as a student I want to be extra-careful not to look unprofessional. I had longer hair a few years ago (down to my bra strap) but at the time I always thought it looked messy. I had bangs and longer layers in front and it was just about impossible for me to wear it up or back without having hair in my face. Plus, I'm afraid I don't have smooth, straight, shiny hair... my hair is somewhere between wavy and curly -- "naturally frizzy," as I call it. (grin) I can brush it all out and about a half hour later it looks like I just rolled out of bed. Anyway, I've grown out the layers and bangs and it's tempting to go a little longer.I completely agree with your "image is everything" assessment of litigation. :) What I'm wondering is whether a "softer" image could also backfire... you know what I mean? The stereotype seems to be that shorter-haired women are more intelligent and more savvy. You'd hate to have a jury take one look and think, "oh, she doesn't know what she's talking about" and second-guess everything you say. Plus, I wonder how female jurors would react, especially if the attorney is very attractive. (I'm the girl-next-door type, so that's not really an issue for me!) I think the attractive + long hair combination is threatening or intimidating for some women. Hey, I'll admit to it... my boyfriend and I can watch a Meg Ryan movie together and that's no problem, but I'm not about to take him to see Gwyneth Paltrow or Nicole Kidman's latest. :) I'm not saying this to start another long vs. short hair debate. It's just something I've noticed, and since this is a hair politics board I thought I'd throw it out for discussion.

Well, as just a quick answer to the original question, as a self employed person, author, home schooler, and director of the RareGems co-op, my hair isn't much of an issue since people sort of expect me to be a bit unconventional and as Noreen mentioned, a bonus is with hair of such length, you are rarely forgotten or confused with someone else. But it appears my situation is not the norm and gals with extremely long hair can be found in most mainstream walks of life, tucking their private selves up into buns and braids whenever they venture out into the world. I love CC's response about her hair being a special thing shared only with ones intimates. I don't often wear my hair down out in public either, its always restrained somehow, if only for logistical purposes and to protect it.Anyway, it was the second part of your post that I found most intriguing, that being the issue of "sexiness" and not being taken seriously along with the issue of alienating female jurors with a flashy or intimidating persona. I would offer that its all in the way that you handle yourself and how you treat others. If you project the feeling that you know you're beautiful men may eat it up but other women will respond negatively. Even if a person is strikingly attractive, if they are kind and humble about their God given gift, no one will be alienated by them. Walk that fine line between self confidence and arrogance with dignity and grace and people will respond to that, no matter what kind of hair you have, don't you think? Its all a matter of reaching out to people, not only not acting like you think they're aesthetically challenged but having the kind of heart that doesn't even make those judgements to begin with. Sincerity and genuine humility can be very endearing, particularly in someone with every right to feel beautiful and superior. When they don't shove that at you, its makes you want to like them for their graciousness. Such a person could have their way with any jury I would think.> My school runs several pro-bono clinics that give> students an opportunity to represent juveniles and> low-income clients in court. That's something I plan> to get involved with next year, and of course as a> student I want to be extra-careful not to look> unprofessional. I had longer hair a few years ago> (down to my bra strap) but at the time I always> thought it looked messy. I had bangs and longer layers> in front and it was just about impossible for me to> wear it up or back without having hair in my face.> Plus, I'm afraid I don't have smooth, straight, shiny> hair... my hair is somewhere between wavy and curly --> "naturally frizzy," as I call it. (grin) I> can brush it all out and about a half hour later it> looks like I just rolled out of bed. Anyway, I've> grown out the layers and bangs and it's tempting to go> a little longer.> I completely agree with your "image is> everything" assessment of litigation. :) What I'm> wondering is whether a "softer" image could> also backfire... you know what I mean? The stereotype> seems to be that shorter-haired women are more> intelligent and more savvy. You'd hate to have a jury> take one look and think, "oh, she doesn't know> what she's talking about" and second-guess> everything you say. Plus, I wonder how female jurors> would react, especially if the attorney is very> attractive. (I'm the girl-next-door type, so that's> not really an issue for me!) I think the attractive +> long hair combination is threatening or intimidating> for some women. Hey, I'll admit to it... my boyfriend> and I can watch a Meg Ryan movie together and that's> no problem, but I'm not about to take him to see> Gwyneth Paltrow or Nicole Kidman's latest. :) I'm not> saying this to start another long vs. short hair> debate. It's just something I've noticed, and since> this is a hair politics board I thought I'd throw it> out for discussion.

Hi, C.C.!I think the better argument is really via the First Amendment's Free Exercise Clause. Erica's argument about femininity just doesn't seem to wash because what about men? We have some long-haired gentlemen in our forum:)I can remember a case here involving a woman with the Marriott Corporation, a most conservative group. Anyway, this woman was black and wore her hair very long in braids which were not extensions, but her natural hair. As I remember, she was a hotel sales associate and came into contact with executives and the general public quite a bit. Her performance was superior and she was well-liked. Marriot instituted a policy which prohibited generally longer hair and braids and the like in particular. Not only did she have a First Amendment claim, but several under local and federal civil rights laws for discrimination. De facto racial discrimination via the anti-braids policy by Marriott. The lady ended up retaining her position and Marriott's policy had to be dropped. I think they ended up rewriting it because actually it may have been deemed overly broad, in addition to everything else.> I'd love to here Carmen's take on this coming from a> legal side, but I hope you don't mind if I put my 2> cents in.> Many corporate environments (especially "brand> name" corporations like the one I work for) are> staunchly traditional, old-boys-club environments that> women could hardly play in at all, untill the 1980's.> The women that were successful breaking in were the> ones that followed all of the unspoken rules.> With that history in mind, I see long hair up vs. long> hair down being very similar to whether a woman wears> a dress or a suit to work. At many places, a dress is> just fine. At other places, or certain situations,> only a suit will do. The women that tried to break the> glass ceiling in the '80s or before generally had very> short hair. Now, even though the environment has> softened, I still believe that tradition is being held> on to.> I am probably going to sound like a real corporate> stiff, but it doesn't quite smell like sexual> harrassment/descrimination to me. It is a business> deciding what is its best corporate image, and holding> those that represent the company (especially to> customers) responsible for that image.The corporate image and protective veil only go so far. It's always important to remember that a democracy is best defined as majority rule with the preservation of minority interests. Minority interests include certain personal choices like a parent's decision whether a child is educated in a public or private school or at home, how a person chooses to wear his/her hair when a company's policy has no rational relationship to job performance, whether a woman chooses to have 10 or no children.> I don't mean to imply that this is the way it ought to> be, its just the way it is, and I had to make the> go-along-to-get-along choice. Now, after being steeped> in it for awhile, I'm just used to it.The world has been transformed because somebody decided that "what is", "ought not" to be. That was an individual's choice. We all make choices in our lives:) Everyone has his/her own tolerance level, regardless of the arena.> That being said, let me also say that I don't mind> taking heat for being a starched shirt. I have loved> reading everybody's opinion and would welcome any> comments whether they agree with me or not.Your no starched shirt in my book.Take care and please continue to post...Bye for now,Jade21

Hi, Carmen!I just wanted to say that I think you are on your way to becoming quite a lawyer already. It is so key to me that you have really been thinking about all of this. I give you many applause:)I've got two stories for you. As lawyers would say, "war stories." The first is via my grandfather and is in line with your overall thinking process re court appearances and the image you project. The second is a story about a female attorney who I have seen in action and sort leaves everybody "breathless." It sort of goes along with your comment about long hair + beauty (which is defintely in the eye of the beholder:)).Story one. My grandfather was truly green, fresh out of law school, smart as a whip and got a civil rights case which he and everybody else thought was a definite loser. Anyway, he did the research, planned his strategy and then, the decision....WHAT DO I WEAR TO COURT? Meanwhile, his client is in jail...sittting...sitting...sitting. So, my grandfather has decided it's blue pinstripes and a visit to the jail before the trial. He meets with his client and says, "Sir, don't worry, I have my arguments and I assure you that I will give you the best justice." His client looks at him and says,"Man, I don't care about justice. I just want you to get me out this jail." MMM....my grandfather's been thinking about strategy, arguments, and yes, the clothes. His client wants his freedom. Lesson 1 of the story....the thought process and yes even thinking about the clothes helped to get the client out of jail. Lesson 2 of the story...don't every lose track of your ultimate goal:) Carmen, you're way ahead of the game!My school runs several pro-bono clinics that give> students an opportunity to represent juveniles and> low-income clients in court. That's something I plan> to get involved with next year, and of course as a> student I want to be extra-careful not to look> unprofessional. I had longer hair a few years ago> (down to my bra strap) but at the time I always> thought it looked messy. I had bangs and longer layers> in front and it was just about impossible for me to> wear it up or back without having hair in my face.> Plus, I'm afraid I don't have smooth, straight, shiny> hair... my hair is somewhere between wavy and curly --> "naturally frizzy," as I call it. (grin) I> can brush it all out and about a half hour later it> looks like I just rolled out of bed. Anyway, I've> grown out the layers and bangs and it's tempting to go> a little longer.> I completely agree with your "image is> everything" assessment of litigation. :) What I'm> wondering is whether a "softer" image could> also backfire... you know what I mean? The stereotype> seems to be that shorter-haired women are more> intelligent and more savvy. You'd hate to have a jury> take one look and think, "oh, she doesn't know> what she's talking about" and second-guess> everything you say. Plus, I wonder how female jurors> would react, especially if the attorney is very> attractive. (I'm the girl-next-door type, so that's> not really an issue for me!) I think the attractive +> long hair combination is threatening or intimidating> for some women. Hey, I'll admit to it... my boyfriend> and I can watch a Meg Ryan movie together and that's> no problem, but I'm not about to take him to see> Gwyneth Paltrow or Nicole Kidman's latest. :) I'm not> saying this to start another long vs. short hair> debate. It's just something I've noticed, and since> this is a hair politics board I thought I'd throw it> out for discussion.I have to say that from what we've heard here and in Hair Talk about some rather catty women, I understand what you are saying. In theory, I have to say that I agree with Dawn about a beautiful woman with long hair being a lot more than that and her ability to project her true self, despite perceived stereotypes. HOWEVER, in a courtroom, you've got a limited amount of time to project the image that you need to project to a jury for ultimate success. So, I sort of agree with you up to a point, Carmen. That sort of goes into Story Number Two. Here goes.There is a female trial attorney who appears in DC courts regularly and she is just what you are talking about. Her hair is very blonde to the middle of her back, actually a bit curly (no hindrance, girl:)), and she is so tall it's amazing. I would guess around 6'2". She is utterly beautiful. In addition, she's got a brain that's so good, it's hard to imagine. She's been a lawyer for at least 20 years. Her father was a renowned trial lawyer in another state, so she obviously learned from the best. I have seen her in action and she literally brings juries to their knees. It's like they don't know what hit them before anything ever got started. Personally, I'm sure she must have considered her image when she was starting out, but...the lesson of the story...WORK WITH WHAT YOU'VE GOT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE!Carmen, you describe yourself as the girl next door type. The girl next door is the heart and soul of America:) This is just my humble opinion but I really wouldn't worry about your boyfriend and the so-called "beautiful movie stars." They're just fantasyland:) From what you have written and discussed in this forum....you must be quite a beautiful, real person.Later and all the best,Jade21

Hi Everyone,Well, I've been visiting the States and also travelling here in France, so I haven't been able to post lately.I just wanted to say how refreshing it was to see an interesting topic like this and how it was discussed, instead of the same old long vs. short argument that seems to get started over topics that don't even start out that way sometimes.I've always been interested in the legal profression and at one time thought of becoming a paralegal (that's another story!). It's not surprising to me that one would have to wonder if she (or he) should keep long hair in this type of career.Jade, I enjoyed reading about your Grandfather. It was a great point to make with that story you recounted, how a lawyer must have EVERYTHING strategically planned. It goes without saying that being a Harvard graduate is very impresive, and you must have been very proud of him.I hope to see (or be able to start) more interesting topics, such as this one.Nice to be back,Holly

> Long hair can be professional whether up or down. To help make it sleek use Citra Shine laminator. I love it. It gives me a close to Asian hair type which looks much better than my mussy natural look.For two terrific up and down examples, look to none other than Alley McBeal. Take a look at the blonde attorney. Her up dos are to die for. Honestly who looks more professional, Alley or that girl? And how about Ling? Her hair is long and sleek. I've never seen it up and it looks terrific and professional.It is all in how well you care for you hair. Long hair can be anything you want it to be so long as you keep it healthy.